When we talk about people living in poverty in the UK those are people whose household income is less than 16k a year. Some households in poverty are close to 16k. Many are far lower than that.
Over two thirds of households in poverty have at least one working adult.
A third of children in the UK live in a household in poverty.
A fifth of foodbank visitors are classed as employed.
The problem we have in this country is a growing wealth gap and a growing proportion of people who work full time but rely on state aid and charity to get by. Both of these are symptoms of wage inequality - incomes getting fatter and fatter for the top 1% and being squeezed for those at the bottom.
The government effectively subsidises corporate profits and huge salaries by allowing companies to employ people on subsistence wages then locking these people in a poverty trap through a program of in work welfare and sanctions.
No one should disagree that if you work full time you should not need to rely on welfare or charity. For a huge and growing proportion of UK households, the grim reality is that they are trapped in jobs that do not pay enough but they cannot quit otherwise face the wrath of a welfare system that exists to punish the poor instead of supporting them.
Interesting comment from Jimmy about providing 'extras' for Foodbank users at Christmas. There are moves afoot at local Foodbanks to ask for unwanted toys etc to add to food parcels for users with children over Christmas. Agree with much of what's been said already apart from the idea that it's the Chruch's responsibility to do charity work and not the Government's fault that basic welfare is often not enough to ensure people don't go hungry. Universal Credit comes with a widely acknowledged timing issue which means no money for most transitioning onto it for a number of weeks. Only a privileged elite with reserves for a rainy day couldn't envisage hardship for those who live from one week to the next. Also, watch out for an announcement very shortly about Foodbank collections.....
When we talk about people living in poverty in the UK those are people whose household income is less than 16k a year. Some households in poverty are close to 16k. Many are far lower than that.
Over two thirds of households in poverty have at least one working adult.
A third of children in the UK live in a household in poverty.
A fifth of foodbank visitors are classed as employed.
The problem we have in this country is a growing wealth gap and a growing proportion of people who work full time but rely on state aid and charity to get by. Both of these are symptoms of wage inequality - incomes getting fatter and fatter for the top 1% and being squeezed for those at the bottom.
The government effectively subsidises corporate profits and huge salaries by allowing companies to employ people on subsistence wages then locking these people in a poverty trap through a program of in work welfare and sanctions.
No one should disagree that if you work full time you should not need to rely on welfare or charity. For a huge and growing proportion of UK households, the grim reality is that they are trapped in jobs that do not pay enough but they cannot quit otherwise face the wrath of a welfare system that exists to punish the poor instead of supporting them.
Spot on, Working Tax Credits is an absolute joke. Helps keep the Governments Employment Figures down whilst subsidising companies paying inadequate wages.
I had contact through my job from the mid-2000s with the original food bank NGO, Trussell Trust (TT), which is a Christian charity. At the time I first knew them, they had, I think, 2 food banks. Their explanation of why they were needed was that, for example, when couples split up, one going off with the wages, leaving the other with the kids, there was an immediate need for assistance. There was a system whereby local authorities gave emergency financial assistance, but it might take a week or so to kick in, especially where there was a weekend and maybe a bank holiday at the start, so TT would give the family a few days' food to keep them fed.
At the time of the credit crunch, the Red Tories got a good kicking from the media, forcing them to introduce tighter benefit rules, and food banks started to spread, with some other organisations setting them up.
Then Blue Tory austerity measures kicked in, not forgetting the throttling of Government cash to local authorities. Of course, there is a colossal difference to local authority finances between relatively affluent areas, where council tax bands are higher and benefits dependency (including council tax reductions) much lower per head, and local authorities with high levels of poverty, who face a huge double whammy and can't help in the way they once did. Food bank use has risen exponentially.
Re. what did religious organisations ever do for us? A food bank I am specifically aware of is in Dumfries; it is run by local churches in partnership with TT. This is common.
Britain is one of the slowest nations to emerge from the financial crisis. Still not emerged, in fact.
America pumped billions into their economy in a stimulus package. They are now booming.
We instead got sold the opposite - 'Austerity'. How are we doing?
The country was sold a lie so the Tory government could do what conservative politicians (in every country) have always done - minimize government spending.
How sad it is that after banker greed caused all this, the poorest have been the ones to pay most dearly. And an uncaring Tory government have cemented their awful experience by making them - not the bankers - the enemy, and going after them even more.
The disgrace is that food banks exist, yes.
But isn't it more that we allowed ourselves to get riled up by the Tory-supporting newspapers who carefully crafted a campaign of "Benefit scroungers" and "cheats" and "She's got 7 Kids and no job and lives in a 1 million pound home" stories that really opened the door to all this nonsense, and seem to have been totally forgotten about.
We instead got sold the opposite - 'Austerity'. How are we doing?
The annual budget deficit ie the amount the government borrowed was £100 billion pounds in 2010. In 2019 it is possible that it will be zero. I don't disagree with any above comments re food banks, but the government has reduced the £100B deficit to close to zero.
We instead got sold the opposite - 'Austerity'. How are we doing?
The annual budget deficit ie the amount the government borrowed was £100 billion pounds in 2010. In 2019 it is possible that it will be zero. I don't disagree with any above comments re food banks, but the government has reduced the £100B deficit to close to zero.
And there you have it, who has paid for the above stat, the poor have while the rich have been coining it in.........sad.
We instead got sold the opposite - 'Austerity'. How are we doing?
The annual budget deficit ie the amount the government borrowed was £100 billion pounds in 2010. In 2019 it is possible that it will be zero. I don't disagree with any above comments re food banks, but the government has reduced the £100B deficit to close to zero.
How fantastic for us. What a great price we've paid - our whole economy for almost a decade. Meanwhile, now 'austerity is over' every government department outside of health and international relations is facing further budgets cuts until at least 2023.
The usual disparagers of organised religion might be honest enough to recognise the sterling work done by local congregations to organise and keep running these local food banks.
The usual disparagers of organised religion might be honest enough to recognise the sterling work done by local congregations to organise and keep running these local food banks.
Yep, one good thing religion does, however it doesn't make up for all heartache, hate and damage it promotes.
HMRC tax revenues have increased annually from 2010 to 2018, so I'd say millions have helped wipe out the £100 billion deficit.
Please dont believe that.........unless you need to believe it, to justify voting Tory.
What, don't believe facts?
BUT its the people who are less well off, and the very poor that are now using food banks that have paid off that debt, and I will say it again, while the rich have got richer. I will repeat again, anyone who votes Tory is culpable for the mess we are in. Surely anyone can see the mess that have made, unless of course you are one of the minority who have got richer under this government, then I can understand your need to justify the tories appalling policies.
There are estimates that the effects of austerity have led to worse GDP growth since its inception that the OBR have calculated, meaning we at least 13 billion a year worse off without the austerity program to reduce the deficient from 10 billion a year to close to 0. Meaning even with the lowering of borrowing we are still worse off than before. Invest to grow, one of the golden economic mantras, thrown out for a decade and the results are clear to all: a decade wasted and a generation of lost opportunities.
Such is the folly of running a macroeconomic model like a household budget.
I think it depends on whether you believe we should borrow a hundred billion pounds annually, adding to the financial burden on our children and our children's children, or whether you believe we should try to live within our revenues, or at least try to reduce the burden on our children & children's children. I believe in trying to reduce their financial burden. But I also think Labour generally spend too much and the Tory's cut too much.
I think it depends on whether you believe we should borrow a hundred billion pounds annually, adding to the financial burden on our children and our children's children, or whether you believe we should try to live within our revenues
Deficits have always had a place in government, they're not, as Fiish put it, like a household budget where debt = very bad. Just like in business, debt isn't always bad, it's necessary. On the other thread I was just reading this new banking app is losing more than 30 million a year. Is that bad? If you were CEO would you jump in and get them to cut back and try to break even? Surely not, because that would mean cutting staff and operations and GROWTH.
It's not about debt it's about how you manage it.
Now we are at close to zero and the IMF says we face "lost generations" of no income growth. So that's your children and your children's children. As for your children's children's children, well, we just have to hope something happens, but it's not going to be as a positive of this, and this can never be said to have been necessary.
Perhaps we shouldn't have reduced Corporate Tax from 30% to 19% in the last decade. As @Greenie says, it is the rich getting richer and they're certainly not using that to increase wages. Absolutely no need for the UK to have reduced that much when you look at what should be our peers.
HMRC tax revenues have increased annually from 2010 to 2018, so I'd say millions have helped wipe out the £100 billion deficit.
Please dont believe that.........unless you need to believe it, to justify voting Tory.
The annual revenue from taxes has increased by 55% from £500bn £770bn per annum. Welfare spending has increased from £190bn per annum to £252bn per annum, a 33% rise 5.5 points above the rate of inflation.
The annual budget deficit is the difference between income and expenditure, it's cash and its borrowed money. If income has gone up by more than expenditure the deficit reduces because you've got to borrow less to pay for government spending. If tax receipts - CASH - hadn't grown as they have the budget deficit - CASH BORROWINGS - wouldn't have reduced - there haven't been any CASH savings in government spending to reduce borrowing requirements - it's facts not politics.
Austerity on its own, which hasn't reduced overall government cash spending at all, it's continued to rise, would not have come near getting the deficit down - fact not politics.
People who are brainwashed to think budget cuts generate cash, or that tax cuts have reduced the cash available to be spent by government will be confused, and probably angry - after all - tax cuts reduce revenue and the lost revenue has been made up by the cuts in spending haven't they....oh doh....I hate figures.
HMRC tax revenues have increased annually from 2010 to 2018, so I'd say millions have helped wipe out the £100 billion deficit.
Please dont believe that.........unless you need to believe it, to justify voting Tory.
The annual revenue from taxes has increased by 55% from £500bn £770bn per annum. Welfare spending has increased from £190bn per annum to £252bn per annum, a 33% rise 5.5 points above the rate of inflation.
The annual budget deficit is the difference between income and expenditure, it's cash and its borrowed money. If income has gone up by more than expenditure the deficit reduces because you've got to borrow less to pay for government spending. If tax receipts - CASH - hadn't grown as they have the budget deficit - CASH BORROWINGS - wouldn't have reduced - there haven't been any CASH savings in government spending to reduce borrowing requirements - it's facts not politics.
Austerity on its own, which hasn't reduced overall government cash spending at all, it's continued to rise, would not have come near getting the deficit down - fact not politics.
People who are brainwashed to think budget cuts generate cash, or that tax cuts have reduced the cash available to be spent by government will be confused, and probably angry - after all - tax cuts reduce revenue and the lost revenue has been made up by the cuts in spending haven't they....oh doh....I hate figures.
Good stats, but the only stats that count are that thousands of people are using food banks and the majority of people in this country have got poorer and accrued more debt under Tory rule, and the richer have got wealthier. That is the reality.
Borrowing is the life blood of any business looking to expand and flourish. Without borrowing we wouldn’t have an economy at all. Wreckless borrowing is different. Borrowing to invest is essential for growth. This government are basically a failed business. Spiteful and cruel to boot.
I always put a tin or pasta in the food bank box in our local Sainsbury's. I'm a volunteer in the village and did my Safeguarding course with Street Pastors. I have registered to volunteer with the local food bank but had to put that on hold as I'm in mid work contract
Keeping fighting the cyber political battle I'm sure Jezza will be riding over the hill to save the World
Do something however small a million tiny actions make a big difference
By way of an example, the lowest-earning 5% have seen post-tax income increase by approx. 50% over the period versus approx. 12% for the highest-earning 5%.
However there has been a very significant unequal distribution of increases in wealth as low global interest rates (a central bank not govt-led policy) drove up the prices of virtually every asset, and unsurprisingly this benefits the rich more than the poor. This same phenomenon has been evidenced across the whole developed world - blaming Tory austerity solely is too simplistic even though it makes for a straightforward narrative.
@Greenie just out of interest what would you propose the Labour Party or any other proposed government do to stop food banks being needed?.
Why should Greenie have to tell you when Labour has already spelt it out. They have said they will stop benefit sanctions and address the low pay culture that is a major reason why foodbanks are needed. It won't be instant, but it is working towards social justice rather than unfairness. Sorry, but like him or not, that is what Corbyn stands for!!!!!!
tbh i asked @Greenie a question he seemed happy enough to answer it... so no real need to get involved and praise your man of the people corbyn.
why would you stop benefit sanctions surely job seekers allowance should be for someone seeking employment?.
as per usual this has been turned into a politics debate by the same posters who get quite excited when others do it.
How can you say this isn't a politics debate? - it is beyond parody! Especially when you mentioned the Labour party!
The usual disparagers of organised religion might be honest enough to recognise the sterling work done by local congregations to organise and keep running these local food banks.
Yep, one good thing religion does, however it doesn't make up for all heartache, hate and damage it promotes.
After all the congregation of St Michael and All Saints regularly mob up after communion on a Sunday, fill up Christian Aid envelopes and take boxes of food to drop in centres. Then there's the constant fund raising year round, all under the guise of gentile English traditional values, the bastards!
I think it depends on whether you believe we should borrow a hundred billion pounds annually, adding to the financial burden on our children and our children's children, or whether you believe we should try to live within our revenues, or at least try to reduce the burden on our children & children's children. I believe in trying to reduce their financial burden. But I also think Labour generally spend too much and the Tory's cut too much.
The problem with this is that the generations that will have to pick up the pieces of austerity will be worse off than their parents were, all thanks to the belt-tightening that is supposedly meant to lessen the burden.
This generation has had to put up with: tuition fees, failing hospitals, lack of social housing, VAT hikes, public sector pay freeze, pensions getting worse, public assets sold off on the cheap etc.
All in the name of austerity. And this is supposed to be a legacy to be proud of? No wonder there is such a stark divide between old and young politically in this country.
@Greenie just out of interest what would you propose the Labour Party or any other proposed government do to stop food banks being needed?.
Why should Greenie have to tell you when Labour has already spelt it out. They have said they will stop benefit sanctions and address the low pay culture that is a major reason why foodbanks are needed. It won't be instant, but it is working towards social justice rather than unfairness. Sorry, but like him or not, that is what Corbyn stands for!!!!!!
tbh i asked @Greenie a question he seemed happy enough to answer it... so no real need to get involved and praise your man of the people corbyn.
why would you stop benefit sanctions surely job seekers allowance should be for someone seeking employment?.
as per usual this has been turned into a politics debate by the same posters who get quite excited when others do it.
Setting aside the question of sanctioning people on JSA, what's the justification for sanctioning people who've been assessed as unfit to work?
It's good that they do their bit (if indeed they do, I don't claim to know)... but it's not the remotest bit their actual 'job' in the same way that it is the government's.
Comments
Over two thirds of households in poverty have at least one working adult.
A third of children in the UK live in a household in poverty.
A fifth of foodbank visitors are classed as employed.
The problem we have in this country is a growing wealth gap and a growing proportion of people who work full time but rely on state aid and charity to get by. Both of these are symptoms of wage inequality - incomes getting fatter and fatter for the top 1% and being squeezed for those at the bottom.
The government effectively subsidises corporate profits and huge salaries by allowing companies to employ people on subsistence wages then locking these people in a poverty trap through a program of in work welfare and sanctions.
No one should disagree that if you work full time you should not need to rely on welfare or charity. For a huge and growing proportion of UK households, the grim reality is that they are trapped in jobs that do not pay enough but they cannot quit otherwise face the wrath of a welfare system that exists to punish the poor instead of supporting them.
At the time of the credit crunch, the Red Tories got a good kicking from the media, forcing them to introduce tighter benefit rules, and food banks started to spread, with some other organisations setting them up.
Then Blue Tory austerity measures kicked in, not forgetting the throttling of Government cash to local authorities. Of course, there is a colossal difference to local authority finances between relatively affluent areas, where council tax bands are higher and benefits dependency (including council tax reductions) much lower per head, and local authorities with high levels of poverty, who face a huge double whammy and can't help in the way they once did. Food bank use has risen exponentially.
Re. what did religious organisations ever do for us? A food bank I am specifically aware of is in Dumfries; it is run by local churches in partnership with TT. This is common.
America pumped billions into their economy in a stimulus package. They are now booming.
We instead got sold the opposite - 'Austerity'. How are we doing?
The country was sold a lie so the Tory government could do what conservative politicians (in every country) have always done - minimize government spending.
How sad it is that after banker greed caused all this, the poorest have been the ones to pay most dearly. And an uncaring Tory government have cemented their awful experience by making them - not the bankers - the enemy, and going after them even more.
The disgrace is that food banks exist, yes.
But isn't it more that we allowed ourselves to get riled up by the Tory-supporting newspapers who carefully crafted a campaign of "Benefit scroungers" and "cheats" and "She's got 7 Kids and no job and lives in a 1 million pound home" stories that really opened the door to all this nonsense, and seem to have been totally forgotten about.
Don't continue to be fooled, please God.
Just taking one single example - local councils - they've had their budgets cut by 77%. Northampton Council alone has to cut £40 million next year.
It doesn't take a math's whizz to work out where this money's come from.
Such is the folly of running a macroeconomic model like a household budget.
It's not about debt it's about how you manage it.
Now we are at close to zero and the IMF says we face "lost generations" of no income growth. So that's your children and your children's children. As for your children's children's children, well, we just have to hope something happens, but it's not going to be as a positive of this, and this can never be said to have been necessary.
The annual budget deficit is the difference between income and expenditure, it's cash and its borrowed money. If income has gone up by more than expenditure the deficit reduces because you've got to borrow less to pay for government spending. If tax receipts - CASH - hadn't grown as they have the budget deficit - CASH BORROWINGS - wouldn't have reduced - there haven't been any CASH savings in government spending to reduce borrowing requirements - it's facts not politics.
Austerity on its own, which hasn't reduced overall government cash spending at all, it's continued to rise, would not have come near getting the deficit down - fact not politics.
People who are brainwashed to think budget cuts generate cash, or that tax cuts have reduced the cash available to be spent by government will be confused, and probably angry - after all - tax cuts reduce revenue and the lost revenue has been made up by the cuts in spending haven't they....oh doh....I hate figures.
I'm a volunteer in the village and did my Safeguarding course with Street Pastors.
I have registered to volunteer with the local food bank but had to put that on hold as I'm in mid work contract
Keeping fighting the cyber political battle I'm sure Jezza will be riding over the hill to save the World
Do something however small a million tiny actions make a big difference
By way of an example, the lowest-earning 5% have seen post-tax income increase by approx. 50% over the period versus approx. 12% for the highest-earning 5%.
However there has been a very significant unequal distribution of increases in wealth as low global interest rates (a central bank not govt-led policy) drove up the prices of virtually every asset, and unsurprisingly this benefits the rich more than the poor. This same phenomenon has been evidenced across the whole developed world - blaming Tory austerity solely is too simplistic even though it makes for a straightforward narrative.
This generation has had to put up with: tuition fees, failing hospitals, lack of social housing, VAT hikes, public sector pay freeze, pensions getting worse, public assets sold off on the cheap etc.
All in the name of austerity. And this is supposed to be a legacy to be proud of? No wonder there is such a stark divide between old and young politically in this country.