Rudd, Amos and Steer, and their clubs, have all benefitted from these loan deals. We haven't. We're stuck in L1 with our goalie lacking experience due to these loans, and about to leave as soon as possible.
We haven't benefited from having 3 good goalies ? I'm sorry, but that's untrue. The reason we are in L1 has nothing to do with those 3.
But we are still in League One. If we’d played Dillon a couple of seasons ago he’d now have the experience that most think he is lacking and we’d still be in League One.
Not sure that’s what you meant Large but for some reason that made me laugh
Ditto. So what Large is saying, is don't try and improve the team with better loan players. Play inferior Charlton players, because you can't guarantee promotion.
So let's send back Maxwell, Williams, Cullen, Bielik (any others I can't immediately recall) and play 4 Academy players, as they'll have more experience in a couple of seasons.
Brilliant plan if you want to get us relegated !
I didn't realise Roland posted on here, as that was his policy. KAG (as was) springs to mind.
Leave off CE. We're talking about Phillips , there are quite a few of us who would like to see him get a decent run in the team. As exiled said earlier most thought steer was slightly better. Anyway if rolands still here next season we can get 2 loan keepers
I didn't see much difference between Phillips and Steer/Amos when they first arrived, although they both improved with game time. Speculation that Phillips would have let in lots of goals that they saved is questionable to say the least.
very unfair on Dillon Phillips who has done well every time he has played this season with an average mark of 6.55, only 0.02 behind Steer. How can the lad get better if he is not given a chance, surely there is another goalie out there who could sit on the bench. If Philllips is confined to the bench I expect he will leave in the summer which will be the 3rd good goalkeeper that we will have lost - Elliott, Pope and now Phillips
in Bowyer and Gallen I do not trust on this occasion
I cannot believe that Charlton fans are happy to risk staying in L1 in order to play a second choice goalie. Phillips is a decent goalie and if LB wants to play him that's fine by me.
However, Slade, Robinson and Bowyer see/saw Phillips most days in training and if they all assess Phillips as not quite up to scratch, then that tells me that all 3 probably are not wrong.
I wish Phillips all the best, but I believe a manager should play his strongest team. I fail to understand why any Charlton supporter would wish to weaken our team and lessen our promotion prospects, simply because a player came through our Academy and will improve if he we play him in the first team.
Many of our Academy players would get better if given a chance in the first team, but that is the thought process of RD and is not one I adhere to. Play them if they are up to your required standard.
What I can't understand is why is Dillon Phillips the hill on which everyone is willing to die. We've had countless youngsters impatiently written off after 1 or 2 appearances, Karlan being a prime example, but all of a sudden Phillips must be given special treatment. No one is advocating dropping Bilek so Lapslie can play, or wanted Morgan playing instead of Cullen (when his shoulder was still where it's supposed to be). We all like seeing academy graduates come through, but it's always tough for keepers as there is only one spot in the team.
Besides, Dillon hasn't actually been dropped yet. Bowyer has said in the past - if Phillips plays well he will keep his place. He was dropped after a couple of errors, maybe harshly, but after errors nonetheless. He's played very well in the last two games, imho, and been praised by Bowyer so I expect him to start on Saturday and continue in goal until Bowyer is given reason to drop him as happened with Steer. If Maxwell comes straight in, maybe the context of the discussion changes vbut for now a lot of people are getting a bee in their bonnet about something that hasn't even happened yet.
I suppose after Steer we're just expecting Dillon to be benched. I don't think LB rates Dillon.
It would be nice to have a permanent keeper rather than a stream of loan signings.
But that's just it - he wasn't benched as soon as Steer came in, Phillips started 4 league games while Steer stayed on the bench. He was benched when he failed to demonstrate the level of performance Bowyer wanted. Steer didn't set the world on fire initially, but he didn't make the mistakes Phillips did either and by the end of it, I think most people feel Steer was slightly the better keeper. Bowyer sees areas for Phillips to improve - as you would hope he does with all our players because none of them are perfect - and after the Wallsall games he was careful to highlight that Phillips was doing things better, that he'd been listening to what Bowyer wants and was working on it. I think Phillips two best games of the season have been his last two, and if he keeps that up I genuinely don't think Bowyer will drop him. Bowyer just wants to win football matches and get promoted and he's going to put out the best team he can to do that - that is is his job, after all.
I couldn't see why Phillips was dropped - Steer was a worse performer in his early games so I don't think it was a question of mistakes. He improved given a run in the team which Bowyer wouldn't give to Phillips.
LB obviously doesn't rate Phillips as far as I can see as he seemed to cut Steer a lot more slack.
If Phillips can't get starts then he needs to move on.
So in amongst all the takeover madness we’ve signed an international midfielder with bags of Premier league experience, and a keeper who has been a Championship 1st choice for 2 of the last 2 1/2 years.
So in amongst all the takeover madness we’ve signed an international midfielder with bags of Premier league experience, and a keeper who has been a Championship 1st choice for 2 of the last 2 1/2 years.
Funny old game.
Wouldn't say 12 premier league games was bags of PL experience....
So in amongst all the takeover madness we’ve signed an international midfielder with bags of Premier league experience, and a keeper who has been a Championship 1st choice for 2 of the last 2 1/2 years.
Funny old game.
Wouldn't say 12 premier league games was bags of PL experience....
Fair point, thought Williams had played more in the Premier than he has.
My underlying point though is it is a quality of signing better than what most would have anticipated
I think this is actually good business, reading through the Preston fans opinions he seems to be highly rated and a lot believe he should be their first choice now. He looks very muscular and I saw that he has been identified as a strong keeper who wins a lot of crosses which is something we haven't had in Phillips or Steer imo. We need a keeper with confidence who can lead a defense and get them in position and focused, the reviews of him say he is the type.
One thing that has stood out to me is in his interview he is talking as if we have paid a fee for him and it's a permanent signing. Sounds like his days are numbered at Preston with their management team. I would probably go ahead and say he may well be a Charlton player next season but his contract expires in 2020 and we won't pay a fee with duck tape at the helm.
Along with others feel sorry for Phillips but probably a good move by Bowyer.
Personally, I think it does Phillips a big favour. I thought on Saturday that he was starting to fill out and look the part a bit more. The goal aside, which wasn’t his fault, he started well but then his distribution started to let him down, IMO. I think a little more developing time will serve him well in the long run rather than throwing him in at a crucial stage when a couple of bad games could hurt the promotion push and put his career back.
Along with others feel sorry for Phillips but probably a good move by Bowyer.
Personally, I think it does Phillips a big favour. I thought in Saturday that he was starting to fill out and look the part a bit more. The goal aside, which wasn’t his fault, he stared well. But then his distribution started to let him down, IMO. I think a little more developing time will serve him well in the long run rather than throwing him in at a crucial stage when a couple of bad games could hurt the promotion push and put his career back.
I'm very happy with the signing of Maxwell but I don't think this does Philips a favour at all. He believes he is good enough and is desperate to play. Through no real fault of his own he keeps getting dropped.
He's 24 in a few months time and has been around the squad for quite a while, if Phillips is ever going to be a good keeper then he should be ready to play. It is unfortunate we don't have a permanent Number 2 because I think these clubs will no doubt want their loanees to start. Phillips will go in the summer and I don't blame him.
Why does everyone just assume that Phillips will be dropped?
I don't think he will. I think LB will play him until he makes a mistake. Whether that is he lets in a soft goal, or has a poor game in some way, the shirt is his to lose.
Why does everyone just assume that Phillips will be dropped?
I don't think he will. I think LB will play him until he makes a mistake. Whether that is he lets in a soft goal, or has a poor game in some way, the shirt is his to lose.
Only then do I think LB will start Maxwell.
I think Dillon might start on Saturday but only to let Maxwell bed into the club. I’m confident that Maxwell has been brought into the club to be number one.
Read all the comments about Maxwell out at dinner to my son. When we got to Steve Gallen ‘he punches a lot’ he said ‘well that’s not a good sign dad, if you are a keeper you should be loooking to get both hands on it and catch it. And then play it out.’
I’m fairly sure he’s repeating what I’ve said to hi over the years and we agreed if he comes out super early and gets it away to Charlton it could be ok, otherwise anyone else think a punchy keeper is a good thing?
Read all the comments about Maxwell out at dinner to my son. When we got to Steve Gallen ‘he punches a lot’ he said ‘well that’s not a good sign dad, if you are a keeper you should be loooking to get both hands on it and catch it. And then play it out.’
I’m fairly sure he’s repeating what I’ve said to hi over the years and we agreed if he comes out super early and gets it away to Charlton it could be ok, otherwise anyone else think a punchy keeper is a good thing?
Yes and no. If he punches when he can easily catch it, it is a bad thing. If he comes further out and gets a good punch away that could have landed on a forwards head it is good. It is all about decision making and understanding what is possible for your ability and then consistency performing to that level.
A player that consistently makes the right decisions is a very good player.
Why does everyone just assume that Phillips will be dropped?
I don't think he will. I think LB will play him until he makes a mistake. Whether that is he lets in a soft goal, or has a poor game in some way, the shirt is his to lose.
Only then do I think LB will start Maxwell.
Maxwell hasn't joined to sit on the bench, he will be expecting to play. Phillips got a few games when Steer joined but it didn't take a lot for Steer to then get the gloves.
Read all the comments about Maxwell out at dinner to my son. When we got to Steve Gallen ‘he punches a lot’ he said ‘well that’s not a good sign dad, if you are a keeper you should be loooking to get both hands on it and catch it. And then play it out.’
I’m fairly sure he’s repeating what I’ve said to hi over the years and we agreed if he comes out super early and gets it away to Charlton it could be ok, otherwise anyone else think a punchy keeper is a good thing?
Rudd, Amos and Steer, and their clubs, have all benefitted from these loan deals. We haven't. We're stuck in L1 with our goalie lacking experience due to these loans, and about to leave as soon as possible.
We haven't benefited from having 3 good goalies ? I'm sorry, but that's untrue. The reason we are in L1 has nothing to do with those 3.
But we are still in League One. If we’d played Dillon a couple of seasons ago he’d now have the experience that most think he is lacking and we’d still be in League One.
Not sure that’s what you meant Large but for some reason that made me laugh
Ditto. So what Large is saying, is don't try and improve the team with better loan players. Play inferior Charlton players, because you can't guarantee promotion.
So let's send back Maxwell, Williams, Cullen, Bielik (any others I can't immediately recall) and play 4 Academy players, as they'll have more experience in a couple of seasons.
Brilliant plan if you want to get us relegated !
I didn't realise Roland posted on here, as that was his policy. KAG (as was) springs to mind.
You have misconstrued what I said but can see why. Of course that isn’t what I meant and obviously if we packed the team with kids and had no loanees then we could well get relegated. However, we have had three keepers in the last three seasons chosen over a keeper of our own who in my opinion is good enough for a League One keeper and will get better with experience but is being stifled by a constant string of loanees. If Dillon had been in the team instead we’d still be in League One but we’d have an experienced keeper. Amos apart I’m not convinced Rudd or Steer were that much better and none have actually helped us achieve anything, not their fault but it’s the case.
Rudd, Amos and Steer, and their clubs, have all benefitted from these loan deals. We haven't. We're stuck in L1 with our goalie lacking experience due to these loans, and about to leave as soon as possible.
We haven't benefited from having 3 good goalies ? I'm sorry, but that's untrue. The reason we are in L1 has nothing to do with those 3.
But we are still in League One. If we’d played Dillon a couple of seasons ago he’d now have the experience that most think he is lacking and we’d still be in League One.
Not sure that’s what you meant Large but for some reason that made me laugh
Ditto. So what Large is saying, is don't try and improve the team with better loan players. Play inferior Charlton players, because you can't guarantee promotion.
So let's send back Maxwell, Williams, Cullen, Bielik (any others I can't immediately recall) and play 4 Academy players, as they'll have more experience in a couple of seasons.
Brilliant plan if you want to get us relegated !
I didn't realise Roland posted on here, as that was his policy. KAG (as was) springs to mind.
You have misconstrued what I said but can see why. Of course that isn’t what I meant and obviously if we packed the team with kids and had no loanees then we could well get relegated. However, we have had three keepers in the last three seasons chosen over a keeper of our own who in my opinion is good enough for a League One keeper and will get better with experience but is being stifled by a constant string of loanees. If Dillon had been in the team instead we’d still be in League One but we’d have an experienced keeper. Amos apart I’m not convinced Rudd or Steer were that much better and none have actually helped us achieve anything, not their fault but it’s the case.
Agree on this - didn't see Steer or Rudd as particularly outstanding.
Playing regularly doesn't necessarily mean a player will improve.
Kevin Lisbie 1996 - 2007 scored 16 goals in 155 games. So glad all that experience amounted to the player he became.
Lisbie was a good player; largely terrible in front of goal, mind you
The problem with Charlton and the Lisbie debate is that he played almost all of his games for us in the Premier League.
When he dropped down the Divisions particularly at Colchester and Orient he demonstrated that he was an excellent second / third tier striker.
Certainly let him go at the wrong time... Got 17-goals for Colchester in our first season out of the Premier League whereas Chris Iwelumo only got 10-goals whilst his natural replacement (Varney?) only got three
Colchester still managed to finish bottom that year yet just wonder what we could have done with his goals
Playing regularly doesn't necessarily mean a player will improve.
Kevin Lisbie 1996 - 2007 scored 16 goals in 155 games. So glad all that experience amounted to the player he became.
Lisbie was a good player; largely terrible in front of goal, mind you
The problem with Charlton and the Lisbie debate is that he played almost all of his games for us in the Premier League.
When he dropped down the Divisions particularly at Colchester and Orient he demonstrated that he was an excellent second / third tier striker.
Certainly let him go at the wrong time... Got 17-goals for Colchester in our first season out of the Premier League whereas Chris Iwelumo only got 10-goals whilst his natural replacement (Varney?) only got three
Colchester still managed to finish bottom that year yet just wonder what we could have done with his goals
Even his goals to games @ Crewe wasnt the greatest
Its ironic really the fact that he's only played outside the top two Divisions once yet was the only time he got into double figures for League goals - Another one like Lisbie / Grigg / Rhodes who have a ceiling level when it comes to scoring
Comments
I’d rather have seen us get a loan in for cover and given phillips a shot. But I suspect he’ll be back on the bench.
Still, looks highly rated. What odds can I get on him giving a penalty away on Saturday?!
We're talking about Phillips , there are quite a few of us who would like to see him get a decent run in the team.
As exiled said earlier most thought steer was slightly better.
Anyway if rolands still here next season we can get 2 loan keepers
LB obviously doesn't rate Phillips as far as I can see as he seemed to cut Steer a lot more slack.
If Phillips can't get starts then he needs to move on.
Funny old game.
Kevin Lisbie 1996 - 2007 scored 16 goals in 155 games. So glad all that experience amounted to the player he became.
My underlying point though is it is a quality of signing better than what most would have anticipated
One thing that has stood out to me is in his interview he is talking as if we have paid a fee for him and it's a permanent signing. Sounds like his days are numbered at Preston with their management team. I would probably go ahead and say he may well be a Charlton player next season but his contract expires in 2020 and we won't pay a fee with duck tape at the helm.
Anyway good luck Chris and welcome to Charlton
He's 24 in a few months time and has been around the squad for quite a while, if Phillips is ever going to be a good keeper then he should be ready to play. It is unfortunate we don't have a permanent Number 2 because I think these clubs will no doubt want their loanees to start. Phillips will go in the summer and I don't blame him.
I don't think he will. I think LB will play him until he makes a mistake. Whether that is he lets in a soft goal, or has a poor game in some way, the shirt is his to lose.
Only then do I think LB will start Maxwell.
I’m fairly sure he’s repeating what I’ve said to hi over the years and we agreed if he comes out super early and gets it away to Charlton it could be ok, otherwise anyone else think a punchy keeper is a good thing?
A player that consistently makes the right decisions is a very good player.
When he dropped down the Divisions particularly at Colchester and Orient he demonstrated that he was an excellent second / third tier striker.
Colchester still managed to finish bottom that year yet just wonder what we could have done with his goals
Its ironic really the fact that he's only played outside the top two Divisions once yet was the only time he got into double figures for League goals - Another one like Lisbie / Grigg / Rhodes who have a ceiling level when it comes to scoring