I wonder if the bodies were inside? I hope to god they were
Seems they're going to try and recover the plane so I hope they're not inside
I know they need to try and find out what went wrong yet think they should leave it be down there
This makes no sense whatsoever, if they were my loved ones, I would want their remains recovered so a proper funeral could take place, and we get a chance to say goodbye.
I would hazard a guess that sadly the bodies were/are inside. Their next of kin have been informed plus the latest people who have found the plane have stopped searching now..
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
To be fair in a roundabout way I come at a similar viewpoint to yours. I think it’s because football is so popular and everything is interconnected very acutely through social media, these things can snowball. There seems to be a growing trend toward showing one’s feelings these days in general which can be a good thing when talking about mental illness or depression, but not everyone is built that way and I’m sure generational attitudes come into play as well.
No right or wrong in how people react here, yours is as valid an approach as someone who is in tears and wants to plaster it all over social media
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
I do think this is slightly different to that scenario.
In what way?
At the very simplest, did their decision to join your company ultimately lead to their death?
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
I do think this is slightly different to that scenario.
In what way?
At the very simplest, did their decision to join your company ultimately lead to their death?
To find out the hypothetical person I mentioned died after attending his leaving do would not change anything.
Football people in general tend to say what makes good headlines rather what they actually think. (Especially over transfers.)
I wonder if emotions are being exaggerated to make themselves look better and more caring on social media.
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
According to various sources Sala had been hawked around most European top level teams. He didn't want to leave Nantes where he was settled and happy.
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
According to various sources Sala had been hawked around most European top level teams. He didn't want to leave Nantes where he was settled and happy.
So happy he signed a contract at another club? I'd hazard a guess that those sources are BS.
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
According to various sources Sala had been hawked around most European top level teams. He didn't want to leave Nantes where he was settled and happy.
So happy he signed a contract at another club? I'd hazard a guess that those sources are BS.
Two points to that, neither of which prove anything, I just put them down as markers. For now...
1. He was on this plane because it seemed important to him to return and say goodbye to his team-mates.
“One body visible in the wreckage” according to latest report. Let’s hope they find both and get proper closure.
Just guessing, but I'd imagine that the pilot's body would be more easily visible as the cockpit would have larger windows on three sides. Those little portholes that you get in passenger cabins are rather smaller and harder to see through.
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
Not sure it is a generational thing, however I do guess in the world of social media where everyone is connected, and you can get more of a sense of what people are like through pictures, videos, stories etc, it is easier for incidents like this to resonant among people, and for them to share those thoughts.
That being said it is reassuring that there are people outside my friendship group that share a similar opinion to me in that they find peoples emotional reaction to this incident not in line with theirs. Of course the loss of Sala (and the pilot that no one seems to care about) must be absolutely horrific for his immediate family and friends, but when a poster on here, who probably never heard of Sala before the incident, says he has tears in his eyes because he reads his name in Arsenals match programme, I wonder why my feelings are so far apart from this.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm grumpy or emotionally dead to these sort of things. But I guess like cables said there is no right or wrong in that essence.
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
According to various sources Sala had been hawked around most European top level teams. He didn't want to leave Nantes where he was settled and happy.
So happy he signed a contract at another club? I'd hazard a guess that those sources are BS.
Two points to that, neither of which prove anything, I just put them down as markers. For now...
1. He was on this plane because it seemed important to him to return and say goodbye to his team-mates.
2. His "agent" is the McKay dynasty.
If I had his sot of money, I imagine I'd be taking a fair few private flights to see my friends.
I'm not sure what relevance his agent has here unless you're suggesting there was some foul play, which would be ridiculous, even for you.
This is the email that Willie McKay sent to Sala to try and convince him to join Cardiff:
"[Cardiff] will pay you around £50,000-per-week, plus bonuses, on a contract of four to five years. And whoever accompanies you, whether it is your agent or your mother, who, according to English law, can represent you, could claim around £1m from the deal.
"It is said that you did not want to go to Cardiff. It is probably our fault because we have said in the media that other clubs like West Ham, Everton, etc were interested in order to create an interest around you.
"We make transfers! More than 600 until today, from Didier Drogba, to [Nicolas] Anelka, [Dimitri] Payet, [Jean Michael] Seri, [André-Frank Zambo] Anguissa. Let us introduce you to the way we operate and how we came to this Cardiff City saga.
"We work for clubs in France, and for players who want to be transferred to England. As far as you are concerned, we have talked to all the clubs, including Manchester, Chelsea, Liverpool. We think you could end up in such clubs.
"We approached Nantes, as we do with many players in other clubs, to obtain the mandate of sale. We are not preventing you from working with another agent, but most players are very satisfied with our mediation. We do not say 'we are like a father to a son to our players'. No, if you had not been a footballer, these people would not be interested in you.
"In the end they are only interested in the money. What we all want a lot of, of course. That's why we like to work with just the clubs. No sentiment, we're just doing business. My experience says: if you do not go for the Premier League now, you will regret it."
The deal was for actually three and a half years. McKay admitted that he made up the story in the media about the interest of West Ham and Everton. And he says that he's spoken to Manchester (but doesn't say which club), Chelsea and Liverpool.
And he represents two of the players that have caused major issues to their respective clubs in the shape of Anelka and Payet.
"Honest" Willie McKay should register as a Charity. Providing he hasn't done so already of course.
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
Maybe Warnock had met him a few times and got to know him before he signed. Maybe he knew a back story of a tough time growing up in Argentina and the lad was finally getting his chance in the premier league? Who knows
Warnock said after the game on Saturday he has known him for months.
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
According to various sources Sala had been hawked around most European top level teams. He didn't want to leave Nantes where he was settled and happy.
So happy he signed a contract at another club? I'd hazard a guess that those sources are BS.
Two points to that, neither of which prove anything, I just put them down as markers. For now...
1. He was on this plane because it seemed important to him to return and say goodbye to his team-mates.
2. His "agent" is the McKay dynasty.
If I had his sot of money, I imagine I'd be taking a fair few private flights to see my friends.
I'm not sure what relevance his agent has here unless you're suggesting there was some foul play, which would be ridiculous, even for you.
Of course not. I am not interested in conspiracy theories, let alone starting them. I try to seek out professional sources who know what they are talking about, in this case the professional pilots, which site I recommended in the earliest days. They are interested in, among other things, who had a duty of care to Mr Sala, and whether they carried it out to the best of their abilities and resources. This pilot for example who seems to be based in Cardiff himself, has been regularly contributing and has this to say today:
Let’s go for some accuracy. The footballer’s agent was not the footballer’s agent, he was the agent representing Nantes Football Club. He was the second hand car dealer and the footballer was the second hand car. And by the way, he isn’t even the football agent because he is not a fit and proper person, his son is the agent but his email release showed who was running the show. There is only one self confessed manipulator of people and what people think. He is not a novice to aviation, he knows about owning and operating aircraft and doesn’t seem to be the sort of person who would leave an intermediary to take care of the detail. I hope the investigators don’t discover that after his selective release of communications, everything else has been deleted. The communications between the parties on the Monday after the pilot was told that the flight was always intended to be at night will be very interesting.
My first point was to suggest that he might well have been "settled and happy" at Nantes, since it was important for him to go back and say goodbye to his team-mates in person.
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
I do think this is slightly different to that scenario.
In what way?
At the very simplest, did their decision to join your company ultimately lead to their death?
To find out the hypothetical person I mentioned died after attending his leaving do would not change anything.
Football people in general tend to say what makes good headlines rather what they actually think. (Especially over transfers.)
I wonder if emotions are being exaggerated to make themselves look better and more caring on social media.
I actually somewhat agree. A terribly sad thing to happen for his family, but I didn't know them, it's just bloody unfortunate.
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
Not sure it is a generational thing, however I do guess in the world of social media where everyone is connected, and you can get more of a sense of what people are like through pictures, videos, stories etc, it is easier for incidents like this to resonant among people, and for them to share those thoughts.
That being said it is reassuring that there are people outside my friendship group that share a similar opinion to me in that they find peoples emotional reaction to this incident not in line with theirs. Of course the loss of Sala (and the pilot that no one seems to care about) must be absolutely horrific for his immediate family and friends, but when a poster on here, who probably never heard of Sala before the incident, says he has tears in his eyes because he reads his name in Arsenals match programme, I wonder why my feelings are so far apart from this.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm grumpy or emotionally dead to these sort of things. But I guess like cables said there is no right or wrong in that essence.
I must say I feel a bit similar. As you say, it was tragic and I can't even image how the families feel... Which is my point. I can't imagine it and don't fancy trying. Now, ever since I had kids in particular I'm an emotional wreck, and loads of stuff sets me off, but I'm pretty much cold to hearing about events like this, or all the celebrities who died in 2016. While I recognize the sadness of the situation, it doesn't affect me, nor does it make me inclined to put flowers anywhere or express my feelings on Facebook. No problems with those who do, I just don't feel it (also, it would be hypocritical of me to complain bearing in mind there's an element of virtue signalling going in here). So there... Just interesting that others feel like I do.
I think it’s a social media / instant news thing. It makes people feel artificially attached. As others have said - obviously heartbreaking for the family but doesn’t personally affect me or most other people.
A young footballer at the peak of his career who gets a move to play in the top league in the world and dies in tragic circumstances. It resonates with me and I did shed a tear briefly watching the Cardiff tribute. Terrible for the family and I hope they get to say their goodbyes at a funeral and get closure.
Not sure they can leave the plane down there. It will become an environmental hazard for a start, although I think they already know what happened. The plane is likely to break up unless they get a decent cradle to lift it.
A young footballer at the peak of his career who gets a move to play in the top league in the world and dies in tragic circumstances. It resonates with me and I did shed a tear briefly watching the Cardiff tribute. Terrible for the family and I hope they get to say their goodbyes at a funeral and get closure.
Resonates with me too, it’s only human to have feelings for the families that have lost loved ones in such circumstances. Sudden death is always a little harder, in my experience, to deal with. I lost family members some years back in air crash, this event does sharpen the memory somewhat. Thankfully most people don’t have these memories so they can detach themselves from it and it becomes just someone else’s sad event.
This incident has shown me how far away I am from the 21st century.
Idon't doubt the serenity and solomness of the ocassion.
I try to apply this to my life. If I was introduced to a new bloke at work on Friday, told he was starting Monday and taking my mates job; then found out he tragically died over the weekend, I would experience a passing trifling sense of sadness at best. It wouldn't be a testing or difficult situation for me.
Fair play to Cardiff for everything they did today and over the past week. Modern day society can show display grief so much differently than the older generation.
Not sure it is a generational thing, however I do guess in the world of social media where everyone is connected, and you can get more of a sense of what people are like through pictures, videos, stories etc, it is easier for incidents like this to resonant among people, and for them to share those thoughts.
That being said it is reassuring that there are people outside my friendship group that share a similar opinion to me in that they find peoples emotional reaction to this incident not in line with theirs. Of course the loss of Sala (and the pilot that no one seems to care about) must be absolutely horrific for his immediate family and friends, but when a poster on here, who probably never heard of Sala before the incident, says he has tears in his eyes because he reads his name in Arsenals match programme, I wonder why my feelings are so far apart from this.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm grumpy or emotionally dead to these sort of things. But I guess like cables said there is no right or wrong in that essence.
I feel the same. It's similar to when Diana died. There was a woman at work who was literally in floods of tears over it. She'd never met Diana, never even seen her in the flesh and I couldn't recall this lady ever speaking about her but her death sparked this, in my view, bizarre show of grief.
Saying that, since becoming a parent I find any story involving death or injury to a young child an absolute tear-jerker so go figure!
I'm a bit uncomfortable with Sky Sports News showing footage of the wreckage on the seabed. Where's the need for that? People have died, show them some respect.
Do these light aircraft have voice/flight data recorders?
From what I have read on the pilots forum the answer is no. However I have also learnt that what we passengers might call "light aircraft", encompasses quite a range of aircraft, with different suitabilities. Many of them say for example that for a night flight like this, a twin engined plane, and ideally with two pilots, would be best practice. It seems likely that the pilot did not have the necessary accreditation to fly night in such a plane, certainly alone. Information points to the "second Dave" (Henderson as opposed to Ibbotson) as planning to fly in the plane too, but for him to change that plan at a late stage. Again this will be a matter for the AAIB to investigate.
I also read one comment there which suggested that Sala had made a previous flight between Nantes and Cardiff, before he had signed, in a much better plane than this one. I don't think this has been confirmed as fact yet, but you can see the clear implication (made by a professional pilot, who may not even be interested in football).
Comments
Sounded like this deal had been ongoing for a while and he 1st meet him a few months ago and had kept in contact
No right or wrong in how people react here, yours is as valid an approach as someone who is in tears and wants to plaster it all over social media
Football people in general tend to say what makes good headlines rather what they actually think. (Especially over transfers.)
I wonder if emotions are being exaggerated to make themselves look better and more caring on social media.
1. He was on this plane because it seemed important to him to return and say goodbye to his team-mates.
2. His "agent" is the McKay dynasty.
That being said it is reassuring that there are people outside my friendship group that share a similar opinion to me in that they find peoples emotional reaction to this incident not in line with theirs. Of course the loss of Sala (and the pilot that no one seems to care about) must be absolutely horrific for his immediate family and friends, but when a poster on here, who probably never heard of Sala before the incident, says he has tears in his eyes because he reads his name in Arsenals match programme, I wonder why my feelings are so far apart from this.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm grumpy or emotionally dead to these sort of things. But I guess like cables said there is no right or wrong in that essence.
I'm not sure what relevance his agent has here unless you're suggesting there was some foul play, which would be ridiculous, even for you.
"[Cardiff] will pay you around £50,000-per-week, plus bonuses, on a contract of four to five years. And whoever accompanies you, whether it is your agent or your mother, who, according to English law, can represent you, could claim around £1m from the deal.
"It is said that you did not want to go to Cardiff. It is probably our fault because we have said in the media that other clubs like West Ham, Everton, etc were interested in order to create an interest around you.
"We make transfers! More than 600 until today, from Didier Drogba, to [Nicolas] Anelka, [Dimitri] Payet, [Jean Michael] Seri, [André-Frank Zambo] Anguissa. Let us introduce you to the way we operate and how we came to this Cardiff City saga.
"We work for clubs in France, and for players who want to be transferred to England. As far as you are concerned, we have talked to all the clubs, including Manchester, Chelsea, Liverpool. We think you could end up in such clubs.
"We approached Nantes, as we do with many players in other clubs, to obtain the mandate of sale. We are not preventing you from working with another agent, but most players are very satisfied with our mediation. We do not say 'we are like a father to a son to our players'. No, if you had not been a footballer, these people would not be interested in you.
"In the end they are only interested in the money. What we all want a lot of, of course. That's why we like to work with just the clubs. No sentiment, we're just doing business. My experience says: if you do not go for the Premier League now, you will regret it."
The deal was for actually three and a half years. McKay admitted that he made up the story in the media about the interest of West Ham and Everton. And he says that he's spoken to Manchester (but doesn't say which club), Chelsea and Liverpool.
And he represents two of the players that have caused major issues to their respective clubs in the shape of Anelka and Payet.
"Honest" Willie McKay should register as a Charity. Providing he hasn't done so already of course.
Let’s go for some accuracy. The footballer’s agent was not the footballer’s agent, he was the agent representing Nantes Football Club. He was the second hand car dealer and the footballer was the second hand car. And by the way, he isn’t even the football agent because he is not a fit and proper person, his son is the agent but his email release showed who was running the show. There is only one self confessed manipulator of people and what people think. He is not a novice to aviation, he knows about owning and operating aircraft and doesn’t seem to be the sort of person who would leave an intermediary to take care of the detail. I hope the investigators don’t discover that after his selective release of communications, everything else has been deleted. The communications between the parties on the Monday after the pilot was told that the flight was always intended to be at night will be very interesting.
My first point was to suggest that he might well have been "settled and happy" at Nantes, since it was important for him to go back and say goodbye to his team-mates in person.
No agent can force a player to sign a contract
As others have said - obviously heartbreaking for the family but doesn’t personally affect me or most other people.
Thankfully most people don’t have these memories so they can detach themselves from it and it becomes just someone else’s sad event.
Saying that, since becoming a parent I find any story involving death or injury to a young child an absolute tear-jerker so go figure!
I also read one comment there which suggested that Sala had made a previous flight between Nantes and Cardiff, before he had signed, in a much better plane than this one. I don't think this has been confirmed as fact yet, but you can see the clear implication (made by a professional pilot, who may not even be interested in football).