What I don't like is having that choice taken away. If I wanted to go somewhere that isn't smoky I would choose to go to a Weatherspoons or some other such faceless hole. If I wasn't too fussed I would go to a proper pub where smoke is accepted as the norm and always has been. I agree with Algarve addick that if you were to question most of the people who used pubs regularly they would say they were not in favour of a total ban.
What they have in Spain works fine and gives a sensible choice between smoking establishments and non-smoking establishments
[cite]Posted By: bigbiker2[/cite]They got it right in Spain. They have a sign saying "Smoking is permitted in this establishment" or "Smoking is not permitted in this establishment" You then get the choice of whether you go in or not.
That is absolutely spot on. Pub owners should have been given a choice as to whether they wanted their pubs to be no smoking or not.
Make it clear whether it's a no smoking pub or not and then let people choose if they want to go in there or not.
One of the pubs near where I work is no smoking - except for one side room that 's for smokers.
Great, thought our lunchtime work drinking party. The smokers peeled off to light up - and came out a couple of minutes later saying they couldn't breathe in there. The next time they wanted a fag, they went outside.
i currently love the ones with smoking / no smoking sections. Was in the Queens Head on Sunday night, pub was busy but the non-smoking section empty (backing up Algarve's point).
Had a nice quiet drink, and every hour wandered round to the smoking section. Got home having smoked less, not smelling so bad of smoke, yet not still having the option available to me. A fair compromise.
Whilst I dis-agree with the total ban being a smoker myself I can understand why they have done it, after all it is killing us all, smokers & passive smokers alike. Look at it as an opportunity, a chance to give up, that's what I have decided to do. Was giving up 1st July decided to postpone until I return from Ibiza cos that will be just too hard staying off it out there after only 4 days of giving up.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Whilst I dis-agree with the total ban being a smoker myself I can understand why they have done it, after all it is killing us all, smokers & passive smokers alike. Look at it as an opportunity, a chance to give up, that's what I have decided to do. Was giving up 1st July decided to postpone until I return from Ibiza cos that will be just too hard staying off it out there after only 4 days of giving up.
If you want to use that line of argument then why not close all the pubs and reduce alcohol related deaths and drink fueled violence? Obesity is likely to be the next big killer, should we shut down all the fast food restaurants?
Once you start down the "it's bad for you so ban it" path, where do you draw the line?
Oggy, the facts are the facts mate, the pub business in Scotland was 11% down in the year after the ban came in.
Your pals may now pop into the pub once a week for a shandy, but they will not replace the five pints a night man who now stays at home because he can't enjoy a fag with his beer. Anyone who gave up going to pubs because of the smoke was never a proper drinker in the first place in my opinion.
As you say it has become part of the routine in Scotland, and i re-iterate, that is because it has been forced on people. If you aked them "would you rather be allowed to sit inside and continue your conversation, and supping your pint, or rather be forced outside to smoke?" I think we all know what the answer would be.
Barn Door's point about fast food and booze is very valid, and what about cars, and the damage their emmissions do to health?
I have said before and I will say again, this is the thin end of the wedge, and booze will be next. They have already stated that there will have to be health warnings on alcohol from 2008, there is also talk of zero tolerance on drink driving. They will gradually chip away and chip away, like they did with fags, and suddenly another part of our freedom will be gone, and the great British public will meekly accept it once again.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Whilst I dis-agree with the total ban being a smoker myself I can understand why they have done it, after all it is killing us all, smokers & passive smokers alike. Look at it as an opportunity, a chance to give up, that's what I have decided to do. Was giving up 1st July decided to postpone until I return from Ibiza cos that will be just too hard staying off it out there after only 4 days of giving up.
If you want to use that line of argument then why not close all the pubs and reduce alcohol related deaths and drink fueled violence? Obesity is likely to be the next big killer, should we shut down all the fast food restaurants?
Once you start down the "it's bad for you so ban it" path, where do you draw the line?
I am not sure where you draw the line to be honest, the smoking thing is gonna be a nightmare for me having smoked for about 20 years now. I am sure they will get around to Prohibition & making us all vegetarians eventually. Personally the next thing on the hitlist would be all the Chelsea Tractors on the Road, they kill kids whether they are going at 20mph let alone 30mph, if you don't drive off road you should not have one, end of story.
But they are driven by the rich, and they are in charge, so it will not happen. Only working class passtimes are targetted by the dictators. They "ban" fox hunting, and then do nothing when the laws are flouted. Bring in a smoking ban, and they employ extra people all over the place to see it is upheld.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]£2,000 odd pound a year if you smoke 20 a day. that should be enough to make you quit along with health risks surely?!
I know i can say the same about beer as well before anyone says it...;-)
But is a vice West Side, like Beer or drugs or Brasses for that matter. If I want to save my money I'd save it by not spending it on something else. I like smoking & resent the fact that the goverment have practically forced me to give up.
The truth of the matter is that because of our political apathy we get the dictatorial government we deserve.
Politicians are egotists and control freaks who will remove as many hard fought freedoms from the people as they can get away with.
Blair's government has launched a violent assault on the freedom of the individual yet if a General Election was held tomorrow the 50%-60% of people who could be ar*** to vote would probably vote him back in.
That says it all in my opinion and don't forget the European dimension. Some of the most repressive leguislation is brought in to comply with diktats from the EU.
I have to say though that our own Bureaucrats like to make matters even worse where they can though!
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]I have said before and I will say again, this is the thin end of the wedge, and booze will be next. They have already stated that there will have to be health warnings on alcohol from 2008, there is also talk of zero tolerance on drink driving. They will gradually chip away and chip away, like they did with fags, and suddenly another part of our freedom will be gone, and the great British public will meekly accept it once again.
Is that why they extended licencing hours? I am a non smoker but I drink lots and I am happy not to have to breathe other people's smoke. That said, I accepted that going to a pub meant that I would have to breathe in smoke. Now I guess it will be the other way around.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Your pals may now pop into the pub once a week for a shandy, but they will not replace the five pints a night man who now stays at home because he can't enjoy a fag with his beer. Anyone who gave up going to pubs because of the smoke was never a proper drinker in the first place in my opinion.
Anyone who gives up going to a pub because they can't smoke is not a proper drinker! Five pints a night? Might as well drink shandy the lightweights.
Joking asides, I am going to see how it goes. I may enjoy not breathing in smoke that isn't mine. If my friends that smoke stop going to the pub with me because of it then they aren't very good friends.
[cite]Posted By: Algarveaddick[/cite]Oggy, the facts are the facts mate, the pub business in Scotland was 11% down in the year after the ban came in.
Only facts if you believe all the statistics you read in the Scottish Licensed Trade News - if I remember rightly it was based on a self-completion survey which encouraged those pubs that had seen a dip to use it to complain. Reality is that it is much more pleasant to go out to a pub or restaurant in Scotland now than it was before the ban. Yes, I'm a non-smoker and I do go out to pubs without a second thought now - I'm obviously one of the people Oggy meant. Many pubs have benefitted in increased trade - especially those with a good food offering, which also increases revenue/profit opportunity. The hardest hit places are the working men's clubs and bingo halls. I find visits to fug-filled venues in England very unpleasant now.
The ultimate thing about going to a pub is surely the social aspect of it so i don't understand why people will stay at home just because they can't smoke surely. Sometimes i find statistics very hard to believe and they are usually only quoted in the interests of the people who "researched" them.
Cricket, i know that it is a vicee but surely it is a vice which affects other people's health which makes it different. if i was drinking and you was not, you wouldnt be getting alcohol in your system would you? And if i had a few brasses round my gaff and you popped round you wouldnt be inhaling their.....;-)
On the drinking subject nobody come back with the argument "what about those people who get drunk and beat people up". Grrr.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]The ultimate thing about going to a pub is surely the social aspect of it so i don't understand why people will stay at home just because they can't smoke surely. Sometimes i find statistics very hard to believe and they are usually only quoted in the interests of the people who "researched" them.
Cricket, i know that it is a vicee but surely it is a vice which affects other people's health which makes it different. if i was drinking and you was not, you wouldnt be getting alcohol in your system would you? And if i had a few brasses round my gaff and you popped round you wouldnt be inhaling their.....;-)
On the drinking subject nobody come back with the argument "what about those people who get drunk and beat people up". Grrr.
Good Points West Side very well made, but do not EVER call me that 'C' word again :-)
Anyone see Panorama last night about the huge rise in liver disease in the young caused by excessive drinking. Scary stuff but of course I just opened another bottle of wine and turned over.
Watched that- very scary as i had just opened a bottle of wine which i fully intended to drink the whole contents of to calm down after a mad day at work....
Worried me when this sort of catagory was the type that one of the most at danger.. :-(
The smoking ban will not just affect pubs but also FOOTY Stadiums and concert halls and all enclosed spaces.Didn't see the panorama programme but it is evident that beer and wines/spirirts are becoming very cheap to buy from supermarkets and elsewhere,so this being the case people will stop going to the pub and will drink and smoke at home,more health problems,the pub will probably lose about 5% of it's hard core trade and will be replaced with the less regular type of punter,next time you visit your local just have a look to see what percentage are smokers and then take note when the ban takes affect,interesting fact is supermarkets are selling beer and wine/spirits really cheap, pubs have a 24 hour licence and smoking is banned,we are losing pubs at an alarming rate which are closing down and being turned into flats,i wonder what will be next on the agenda.
I was just about to say it doesnt effect me but ive just been informed its coming in over here in Oz on the same day..
I think overall its got to be a good thing ... we need to give this stuff up as its without a shadow killing us and our kids around us ... so plain and simple if its harder to smoke and even slows us down a bit then good thing... I think the biggest problem will be the clubs as you will get literally thousands of wired up clubbers probably queing to get out the club for a smoke..
Well, Badger, as we all know, drinking in pubs is expensive - and is so because of the high ratio of taxation per pint and the fact that most pubs are tenancies tied to the brewery - and hostage to high rents.
Some pubs are just no longer viable in this age of huge business overheads and do go to the wall - the same as other loss making businesses.
Many supermarkets sell selected beers as a 'loss-leader' to attract people inside their shops - and pubs already feel the competition keenly.
But Weegie (in a previous post) who lives in Glasgow, tells of her own experiences after the smoking ban in Scotland - but overall the best pubs profiteer and trade falls away from those who do not adapt. No doubt there will have to be a period of adjustment here, but within a few months people will just accept it as routine - as they do already in Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
As far as stadia are concerned, no one was able to smoke in the stands' seating areas at The Valley last season.
Now they won't be able to smoke on the concourses either.
Is this a good thing? I don't know.
It's just going to be the law. And we've already got too many of them.
Comments
What they have in Spain works fine and gives a sensible choice between smoking establishments and non-smoking establishments
That is absolutely spot on. Pub owners should have been given a choice as to whether they wanted their pubs to be no smoking or not.
Make it clear whether it's a no smoking pub or not and then let people choose if they want to go in there or not.
Great, thought our lunchtime work drinking party. The smokers peeled off to light up - and came out a couple of minutes later saying they couldn't breathe in there. The next time they wanted a fag, they went outside.
Had a nice quiet drink, and every hour wandered round to the smoking section. Got home having smoked less, not smelling so bad of smoke, yet not still having the option available to me. A fair compromise.
If you want to use that line of argument then why not close all the pubs and reduce alcohol related deaths and drink fueled violence? Obesity is likely to be the next big killer, should we shut down all the fast food restaurants?
Once you start down the "it's bad for you so ban it" path, where do you draw the line?
Your pals may now pop into the pub once a week for a shandy, but they will not replace the five pints a night man who now stays at home because he can't enjoy a fag with his beer. Anyone who gave up going to pubs because of the smoke was never a proper drinker in the first place in my opinion.
As you say it has become part of the routine in Scotland, and i re-iterate, that is because it has been forced on people. If you aked them "would you rather be allowed to sit inside and continue your conversation, and supping your pint, or rather be forced outside to smoke?" I think we all know what the answer would be.
Barn Door's point about fast food and booze is very valid, and what about cars, and the damage their emmissions do to health?
I have said before and I will say again, this is the thin end of the wedge, and booze will be next. They have already stated that there will have to be health warnings on alcohol from 2008, there is also talk of zero tolerance on drink driving. They will gradually chip away and chip away, like they did with fags, and suddenly another part of our freedom will be gone, and the great British public will meekly accept it once again.
See you then.
I am not sure where you draw the line to be honest, the smoking thing is gonna be a nightmare for me having smoked for about 20 years now. I am sure they will get around to Prohibition & making us all vegetarians eventually. Personally the next thing on the hitlist would be all the Chelsea Tractors on the Road, they kill kids whether they are going at 20mph let alone 30mph, if you don't drive off road you should not have one, end of story.
I know i can say the same about beer as well before anyone says it...;-)
But is a vice West Side, like Beer or drugs or Brasses for that matter. If I want to save my money I'd save it by not spending it on something else. I like smoking & resent the fact that the goverment have practically forced me to give up.
Politicians are egotists and control freaks who will remove as many hard fought freedoms from the people as they can get away with.
Blair's government has launched a violent assault on the freedom of the individual yet if a General Election was held tomorrow the 50%-60% of people who could be ar*** to vote would probably vote him back in.
That says it all in my opinion and don't forget the European dimension. Some of the most repressive leguislation is brought in to comply with diktats from the EU.
I have to say though that our own Bureaucrats like to make matters even worse where they can though!
Is that why they extended licencing hours? I am a non smoker but I drink lots and I am happy not to have to breathe other people's smoke. That said, I accepted that going to a pub meant that I would have to breathe in smoke. Now I guess it will be the other way around.
Anyone who gives up going to a pub because they can't smoke is not a proper drinker! Five pints a night? Might as well drink shandy the lightweights.
Joking asides, I am going to see how it goes. I may enjoy not breathing in smoke that isn't mine. If my friends that smoke stop going to the pub with me because of it then they aren't very good friends.
Only facts if you believe all the statistics you read in the Scottish Licensed Trade News - if I remember rightly it was based on a self-completion survey which encouraged those pubs that had seen a dip to use it to complain. Reality is that it is much more pleasant to go out to a pub or restaurant in Scotland now than it was before the ban. Yes, I'm a non-smoker and I do go out to pubs without a second thought now - I'm obviously one of the people Oggy meant. Many pubs have benefitted in increased trade - especially those with a good food offering, which also increases revenue/profit opportunity. The hardest hit places are the working men's clubs and bingo halls. I find visits to fug-filled venues in England very unpleasant now.
Cricket, i know that it is a vicee but surely it is a vice which affects other people's health which makes it different. if i was drinking and you was not, you wouldnt be getting alcohol in your system would you? And if i had a few brasses round my gaff and you popped round you wouldnt be inhaling their.....;-)
On the drinking subject nobody come back with the argument "what about those people who get drunk and beat people up". Grrr.
Good Points West Side very well made, but do not EVER call me that 'C' word again :-)
Worried me when this sort of catagory was the type that one of the most at danger.. :-(
Thought it was C4 though Henry.
I was too pished to notice : - )
Asked my wife what the symptons of liver failure would be and she said jaundice and acute pain. Still a pasty white so I'm OK.
I think overall its got to be a good thing ... we need to give this stuff up as its without a shadow killing us and our kids around us ... so plain and simple if its harder to smoke and even slows us down a bit then good thing... I think the biggest problem will be the clubs as you will get literally thousands of wired up clubbers probably queing to get out the club for a smoke..
Some pubs are just no longer viable in this age of huge business overheads and do go to the wall - the same as other loss making businesses.
Many supermarkets sell selected beers as a 'loss-leader' to attract people inside their shops - and pubs already feel the competition keenly.
But Weegie (in a previous post) who lives in Glasgow, tells of her own experiences after the smoking ban in Scotland - but overall the best pubs profiteer and trade falls away from those who do not adapt. No doubt there will have to be a period of adjustment here, but within a few months people will just accept it as routine - as they do already in Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
As far as stadia are concerned, no one was able to smoke in the stands' seating areas at The Valley last season.
Now they won't be able to smoke on the concourses either.
Is this a good thing? I don't know.
It's just going to be the law. And we've already got too many of them.