I have less of a problem with hunting to eat than many of similar political persuasions to me, but...only if it's done sustainably, in season, and not gratuitously (i.e. the animal killed will provide a full meal, rather than a snack). My opinion on this has shifted slightly as a result of noticing the overlap in attitudes towards conservationism between hunters and, well, nature enthusiasts like me.
That's as much as @i_b_b_o_r_g is getting, though, because hunting sheerly for sport...no. Competitive fishing or hunting is grotesque imo. If you deliberately kill an animal any larger than an insect for any reason other than mercy you should be made to eat it
No problem with hunting for food; no problem with people enjoying that. Don't agree with hunting animals for "fun", trophies or any of that though can see why poor countries go along with it.
Would like to see fox-hunting banned in this country, or more accurately the existing ban enforced.
No problem with hunting for food; no problem with people enjoying that. Don't agree with hunting animals for "fun", trophies or any of that though can see why poor countries go along with it.
Would like to see fox-hunting banned in this country, or more accurately the existing ban enforced.
Sums it up well. "Sport" in normal people's eyes, means competition between (apparently) equally matched competitors. Fox hunting (for example) comes no where remotely close to fulfilling that criteria.
I'm ok with people hunting for food and can see why culling and pest control are also sometimes necessary. That said I understand why people get upset about recreational bird shoots and fox hunting and it wouldn't upset me if both were eventually phased out.
BTW Steve I noticed you started an RIP thread recently for John Wilson the angling broadcaster. Wouldn't you consider angling (even catch and release) a blood sport?
I don’t see that any animal these days are killed purely for sport in the Western World. Certain “bloodsports" have been completely outlawed and rightly so imo (dog fighting – cock fighting – badger baiting etc.) But in my view the only pastime or sport that exists these days purely for enjoyment and not for any other reason is course fishing (catch and release), but then a good percentage of Joe public seem to think that catch and release is more acceptable than taking the fish home to eat. Which is why Countryfile and the like always seem to squeeze it in to any coverage they do on fresh water fishing (“it’s okay, all the fish today are put back")
Moving on to other types of hunting –
- Big Game: probably the most controversial and, on the face of it, it does seem to be heinous to shoot these magnificent animals, but they have to be shot. Someone has got to do it to maintain a healthy population whether you like it or not and it’s as simple as that. On top of that, some tribes and villagers around the globe look at elephants or cheaters or tigers as agricultural pests and no different to what we do rats and mice. I’ve seen terrible videos shared on social media of locals “dealing” with nuisance animals with nets and spades and sticks and it aint pretty. How many of you trap and kill rats and mice at home if you have a problem? What gives you the right to do that and to tell folk in other countries that they should stand by and watch the crops they’ve battled everything to bring on throughout the year to be trampled and eating by elephants, or their livestock taken by a local tiger instead of going to their family. If you really want to get angry, look at illegal poaching, that is the biggest threat to these animals, no controlled hunting.
- Driven birds: Again a lot of misinformation on this “sport". The birds shot are eaten, although there have been reports that some are just thrown away. If these reports are true then the whole shooting community would totally condemn the estates and keepers doing it (one report this year was proven to be fabricated as the video showed carcasses that had already been breasted being buried). Overly large numbered shot days are frowned upon these days too, so only birds that are already earmarked for game dealers are shot and once that quota, plus a few brace for the guns and beaters is reached, the day is over. The FACT is that grouse moors and keepered estates have the best populations of endangered species of song birds, reptiles, small mammals and plant life than most other areas of the countryside. Estate that have been bought up by the RSPB are maintained no differently to Estates that are there for shooting with regards to predator control and culling of deer etc. Which must say it serves a very good purpose.
- Rough shooting / decoying / stalking / wildfowling: This is where I come in. This involves a person walking around land they own or have written permission on, shooting animals for the pot, but ALL of those animal shot are also considered agricultural pest so are also taken to protect vegetables (yes, afraid so), or need to be managed to healthy numbers, or both (with regards to British deer species). To say people shouldnt have to hunt to eat these days, just shows the complete ignorance the person has for the animals and habitats involved.
- Pest control (UK): Probably the most obvious and also where I come in: fox, certain corvid, rats, parakeets. These animals are taken because they are considered pests and for no other reason. Make of that what you will
Some of my best days spent out shooting, I’ve not fired a shot. It’s just being out and connected that is the bit I enjoy. Do I like killing things? Yes I do, I like doing a good job and respecting the animal while I pluck or skin it and while I butcher it and while I cook and eat it. All I can say is that, I think it is ingrained in some of us as meat eaters and not in others.
To find out the positive impact shooting can have on the environment, go to any UK wildfowling website and look at what they do with regards to conservation in their areas
a blood sport which apparently should be going on right now is The Running Man. its was set between 2017 and 2019.
another one which I had hoped was going to happen as a progression to love island was Battle Royal. where z list celebrities fight it out to the death on a remote tropical island.
To find out the positive impact shooting can have on the environment, go to any UK wildfowling website and look at what they do with regards to conservation in their areas
They are hardly likely to write lists of where wildfowlers have shot illegal quarry though are they Rob? It's a bit like suggesting someone go onto the Daily Mail website as proof of how well the Tories are governing Britain...
Anyway - I enjoyed your post about shooting, didn't agree with all of it, but you argue the case well. Personally I don't have any problem with people shooting or fishing if they eat what they have shot/caught. Or if it is pest control. Hunting with hounds is barbaric though.
To find out the positive impact shooting can have on the environment, go to any UK wildfowling website and look at what they do with regards to conservation in their areas
They are hardly likely to write lists of where wildfowlers have shot illegal quarry though are they Rob? It's a bit like suggesting someone go onto the Daily Mail website as proof of how well the Tories are governing Britain...
Anyway - I enjoyed your post about shooting, didn't agree with all of it, but you argue the case well. Personally I don't have any problem with people shooting or fishing if they eat what they have shot/caught. Or if it is pest control. Hunting with hounds is barbaric though.
Very conical of you that tbh. The few times someone has shared anything that has been shot out of season etc. on any forum or group that I'm a member of, they're pulled up very quickly and the same goes for silly questions being posed, which is usually met with something along the lines of "If you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be out shooting.". I personally know wildfowlers who volunteer out on the marshes most weekends out of season, either showing people (non-shooters) around, or erecting and checking on nesting boxes that they make themselves. If you don't believe me, that's a shame because it's the truth mate.
Good point about the Mail and Tories as I think most of the anti ignorance is driven by political and / or class persuasions, even though most of the country folk I know through shooting are staunch old Labour.
To find out the positive impact shooting can have on the environment, go to any UK wildfowling website and look at what they do with regards to conservation in their areas
They are hardly likely to write lists of where wildfowlers have shot illegal quarry though are they Rob? It's a bit like suggesting someone go onto the Daily Mail website as proof of how well the Tories are governing Britain...
Anyway - I enjoyed your post about shooting, didn't agree with all of it, but you argue the case well. Personally I don't have any problem with people shooting or fishing if they eat what they have shot/caught. Or if it is pest control. Hunting with hounds is barbaric though.
Very conical of you that tbh. The few times someone has shared anything that has been shot out of season etc. on any forum or group that I'm a member of, they're pulled up very quickly and the same goes for silly questions being posed, which is usually met with something along the lines of "If you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be out shooting.". I personally know wildfowlers who volunteer out on the marshes most weekends out of season, either showing people (non-shooters) around, or erecting and checking on nesting boxes that they make themselves. If you don't believe me, that's a shame because it's the truth mate.
Good point about the Mail and Tories as I think most of the anti ignorance is driven by political and / or class persuasions, even though most of the country folk I know through shooting are staunch old Labour.
I totally believe you Rob, I was just saying that a dedicated wildfowler site isn't going to give a balanced view. Nor would I expect it to.
Comments
@WSS has different views to me though
Not necessary to hunt any more so there is no reason to kill animals for "sport".
That's as much as @i_b_b_o_r_g is getting, though, because hunting sheerly for sport...no. Competitive fishing or hunting is grotesque imo. If you deliberately kill an animal any larger than an insect for any reason other than mercy you should be made to eat it
What about pest control though?
Would like to see fox-hunting banned in this country, or more accurately the existing ban enforced.
BTW Steve I noticed you started an RIP thread recently for John Wilson the angling broadcaster. Wouldn't you consider angling (even catch and release) a blood sport?
Keeps the hounds fit and gives the horses an outing.
I don’t see that any animal these days are killed purely for sport in the Western World. Certain “bloodsports" have been completely outlawed and rightly so imo (dog fighting – cock fighting – badger baiting etc.) But in my view the only pastime or sport that exists these days purely for enjoyment and not for any other reason is course fishing (catch and release), but then a good percentage of Joe public seem to think that catch and release is more acceptable than taking the fish home to eat. Which is why Countryfile and the like always seem to squeeze it in to any coverage they do on fresh water fishing (“it’s okay, all the fish today are put back")
Moving on to other types of hunting –
- Big Game: probably the most controversial and, on the face of it, it does seem to be heinous to shoot these magnificent animals, but they have to be shot. Someone has got to do it to maintain a healthy population whether you like it or not and it’s as simple as that. On top of that, some tribes and villagers around the globe look at elephants or cheaters or tigers as agricultural pests and no different to what we do rats and mice. I’ve seen terrible videos shared on social media of locals “dealing” with nuisance animals with nets and spades and sticks and it aint pretty. How many of you trap and kill rats and mice at home if you have a problem? What gives you the right to do that and to tell folk in other countries that they should stand by and watch the crops they’ve battled everything to bring on throughout the year to be trampled and eating by elephants, or their livestock taken by a local tiger instead of going to their family. If you really want to get angry, look at illegal poaching, that is the biggest threat to these animals, no controlled hunting.
- Driven birds: Again a lot of misinformation on this “sport". The birds shot are eaten, although there have been reports that some are just thrown away. If these reports are true then the whole shooting community would totally condemn the estates and keepers doing it (one report this year was proven to be fabricated as the video showed carcasses that had already been breasted being buried). Overly large numbered shot days are frowned upon these days too, so only birds that are already earmarked for game dealers are shot and once that quota, plus a few brace for the guns and beaters is reached, the day is over. The FACT is that grouse moors and keepered estates have the best populations of endangered species of song birds, reptiles, small mammals and plant life than most other areas of the countryside. Estate that have been bought up by the RSPB are maintained no differently to Estates that are there for shooting with regards to predator control and culling of deer etc. Which must say it serves a very good purpose.
- Rough shooting / decoying / stalking / wildfowling: This is where I come in. This involves a person walking around land they own or have written permission on, shooting animals for the pot, but ALL of those animal shot are also considered agricultural pest so are also taken to protect vegetables (yes, afraid so), or need to be managed to healthy numbers, or both (with regards to British deer species). To say people shouldnt have to hunt to eat these days, just shows the complete ignorance the person has for the animals and habitats involved.
- Pest control (UK): Probably the most obvious and also where I come in: fox, certain corvid, rats, parakeets. These animals are taken because they are considered pests and for no other reason. Make of that what you will
Some of my best days spent out shooting, I’ve not fired a shot. It’s just being out and connected that is the bit I enjoy. Do I like killing things? Yes I do, I like doing a good job and respecting the animal while I pluck or skin it and while I butcher it and while I cook and eat it. All I can say is that, I think it is ingrained in some of us as meat eaters and not in others.
Sign of the times.
hunting to eat is perfectly fine as is the culling of animals (deer, rabbits etc) as anyone doing it would usually be eating the animals anyway
another one which I had hoped was going to happen as a progression to love island was Battle Royal. where z list celebrities fight it out to the death on a remote tropical island.
Anyway - I enjoyed your post about shooting, didn't agree with all of it, but you argue the case well. Personally I don't have any problem with people shooting or fishing if they eat what they have shot/caught. Or if it is pest control. Hunting with hounds is barbaric though.
Good point about the Mail and Tories as I think most of the anti ignorance is driven by political and / or class persuasions, even though most of the country folk I know through shooting are staunch old Labour.