My father wasn’t a Chindit although he did very similar work but in much smaller numbers, with the help of locals and his great hero’s the Gherkas. The Chindits were an extremely brave bunch of hero’s.
@CharltonKerry, in defence of the Americans, their involvement against Japan was almost all in the Pacific theatre (other than "Merrill's Marauders" and significant air support to the Chinese Nationalist forces). Supplying a conventional army in Burma would have been a nightmare for the US Army. The Americans were also very active through the OSS, who were often the conduit for supply to the various nationalist guerrilla forces fighting the Japanese (including, in Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh) who might not always look upon the British with favour.
As an undergraduate in Dublin in the 1980s I was taught by a visiting Professor who had been a US Marine machine gunner at Iwo Jima. He recommended a book, Days of Sadness Years of Triumph, which I thought was brilliant at describing the massive changes wrought on the USA between 1939 and 1945.
@JessieAddick and @Stu_of_Kunming, when you consider the sheer brutality of the Japanese military (mass killings and rape, forced marches, starvation, medical experiments, etc.), easily equivalent to that of the Nazis in Europe, but from 1937 until 1945. Millions died, quite often horribly at the hands of a country which has never, really, had to face up to its responsibility for war of aggression. It's a mystery to me (well, it's not really, when you consider the level of understanding about the war in Eastern Europe) why it is hardly recognised here.
@JessieAddick, I'm almost going to suggest that a China-Northern Ireland exchange scheme be established, just so that we can help with that holding a grudge thing...
Nornirish, totally agree about the Americans, some of the battles they were involved in were horrendous, and they certainly more than helped in suppling the British army, but more importantly they kept the threat of a Chinese force being involved.
My father wasn’t a Chindit although he did very similar work but in much smaller numbers, with the help of locals and his great hero’s the Gherkas. The Chindits were an extremely brave bunch of hero’s.
None braver......my best pal Billy’s dad was a Chindit, he did two tours with them. A nicer more rounded down to earth cockney gentleman you could ever wish to meet. He went in as a Private and came out as a Colour Sargeant......caught malaria in the jungle and died in Lewisham as a result of complications from that illness in the late 60.’ He took part in Operation Thursday and was involved in close quarter hand to hand bayonet action at the Battles of Broadway & White City. There’s a book called War In The Wilderness by Tony Redding (who I have met), which details the unbelievable bravery, sacrifice and history of The Chindits. His name was also Bill, same as his son,......God Bless you Bill, wherever you are my friend, your bravery will never be forgotten. It was an honour to have known you Sir. Funnily enough my mates partner is called Kerry....she is a madam in Sydney, running what is considered to be Sydney’s finest and most exclusive brothel ........she is of Irish decent and she retires quite soon, they are coming over to England and will be also visiting Ireland next year for the first time to visit relatives she has never met before.
Bain of my life being a male kerry, although to be fair it worked out well for me as I’m known as Kerry (also answer to Jerry, Terry and Perry) and no one knows by my second name, worse time was at an all male secondary school where what is now known as bullying and then as banter was rife.
Anyway thanks all that have signed up for petition, it’s gone up by over 500 since Monday, but unfortunately it closes on the 17/7. It would be great to get the date recognised and anyone who have read some of the stories on here will hopefully agree that the hero’s who were out there, deserve this recognition of there undoubted bravery and sacrifice, some gave the ultimate sacrifice, others were wounded both physically and or mentally and some still bear those scares and night terrors, they deserve our support.
Probably not a popular opinion, but here goes anyway. No disrespect to those that served in Asia/Far East during WW2, but is this really necessary? If we are ever to move on from the enmity of WW2 do we need to set aside special days to remind everybody. Isn't this what November 11 is for?
On a wider geopolitical scale it just contributes to the endless cycle of grievance that pollutes relations between China, Korea and Japan. The narrative suits China's aims of causing friction between Japan and it's allies and now they have S Korea acting as their useful idiots resurrecting forced labour and comfort women issues that were settled by treaty year's ago. (Never mind that the Korean government trousered all that reparation money and didn't give a penny to any of the people directly effected)
Probably not a popular opinion, but here goes anyway. No disrespect to those that served in Asia/Far East during WW2, but is this really necessary? If we are ever to move on from the enmity of WW2 do we need to set aside special days to remind everybody. Isn't this what November 11 is for?
On a wider geopolitical scale it just contributes to the endless cycle of grievance that pollutes relations between China, Korea and Japan. The narrative suits China's aims of causing friction between Japan and it's allies and now they have S Korea acting as their useful idiots resurrecting forced labour and comfort women issues that were settled by treaty year's ago. (Never mind that the Korean government trousered all that reparation money and didn't give a penny to any of the people directly effected)
Fair point missed it, as I said I’m only asking for people to sign if they want to, if you disagree then you are most welcome to say so. My opinion is that November the 11th for all wars, May 8th is VE Day and is celebrated, so why not VJ Day those lads fought in the forgotten army and in my opinion they are still forgotten.
If I’m remembering my history correctly and it been a long while since I read about the Chinese involvement. The Chinese army had quiet an influence on the strategy in that area, it was the threat that they would get involved which gave the British the time to regroup (plus the rainy season) around Imphal and Kohima, which were the two Japanese defeats that ultimately lead to the rout of the Japanese army, by the Australian and British forces ok and Americans but my father swore blind he never saw a single American all the time he was out there. It was helped by the fact the Japanese over stretched their lines of communication and supplies and were being constantly hurried by various splinter groups who basically melted into the jungle and disrupted their attempts to reinforce their army, this is what my father was doing most of the time, other than he was lying about in hospital 😀 as he put it.
Sorry if my memory is failing me and the truth is slightly different as you say these were all extremely brave people, my mum used to write to my dad every week, he used to receive bundles of letter (not all of them) every 6 months to a year, one off the first letters he received was to tell him he was a father, he received that 9 months after my brother was born. He had no idea if my mum and his new born son was alive, they were living in Dartford which was very heavily bombed during the war because of the armament factories and the fact it was the German side of London so if the bombers couldn’t reach London, Dartford was targeted, it was also hit badly by doodlebugs later in the war. Actually that reminds me that my families claim to fame is that my brother slept with the world famous Keith Richards yes of the Rolling Stones fame, they were put in the same pram outside the local co op to sleep whilst my and Keith mum worked inside. Sorry @JessieAddick rather drifted off track, but I hope you enjoyed It.
I note that you say that the twin battle of Imphal/Kohima started the defeat of the Japanese forces in The Burma theatre of operations. However the Australians had very little input in these battles and about two thirds of the troops involved were actually Indian. The Royal West Kent’s were very prominent at the siege of Kohima.
I agree, the reason I mentioned the Aussies and should have mentioned the Gurkhas was from a very bias Father who fought alongside them for a very long while whilst he was out so always mentioned them, my father wasn’t involved in Kohima either, even so he was stuck behind the Japanese line, making a nuisance of himself.
To recommend a Book or two, the first one is by Viscount Slim, DEFEAT INTO VICTORY telling the story of SEAC, and the battles of Kohima, and Imphal, also the crossing of the Irrawaddy River. The epitaph " When you go home, tell them of us say, for your tomorrow we gave our today" is on the memorial at Kohima.
The second book is the KNIGHTS OF BUSHIDO by Baron Russell telling the story of Japanese war crimes. WARNING this book is not for the faint of heart
The last journey my dad took aboard was to the war cemetery in Kohima, he went to find his mates grave and to say sorry for what he had to do, unfortunately his mate got very seriously injured, there little troop had the option to leave him in the jungle for the Japanese to torture him, attempt to carry him around 500 mile to a hospital which he wouldn’t have survived and would have almost certainly lead them to being ambushed, or someone to do what the wounded soldier was pleading them to do, Dad stayed behind for a few minutes, then a single gun shot rung out, that gave him nightmares until he went back and apologise, he was in his 80’s.
What was amazing on that visit, a troop of 80 year old Gherka’s walked for thee day to say hello and shake there hands, before walking home.
Probably not a popular opinion, but here goes anyway. No disrespect to those that served in Asia/Far East during WW2, but is this really necessary? If we are ever to move on from the enmity of WW2 do we need to set aside special days to remind everybody. Isn't this what November 11 is for?
On a wider geopolitical scale it just contributes to the endless cycle of grievance that pollutes relations between China, Korea and Japan. The narrative suits China's aims of causing friction between Japan and it's allies and now they have S Korea acting as their useful idiots resurrecting forced labour and comfort women issues that were settled by treaty year's ago. (Never mind that the Korean government trousered all that reparation money and didn't give a penny to any of the people directly effected)
Fair point missed it, as I said I’m only asking for people to sign if they want to, if you disagree then you are most welcome to say so. My opinion is that November the 11th for all wars, May 8th is VE Day and is celebrated, so why not VJ Day those lads fought in the forgotten army and in my opinion they are still forgotten.
Personally, I don't think VE Day needs to be celebrated either. Starting to celebrate VJ Day 70 years after the fact serves no useful purpose. It's over and reconciling the countries involved isn't going to get any easier by doing this now.
By all means, remember those who served and suffered in that theatre, they certainly don't get the recognition they deserve. I believe November 11 should be a bigger deal, a national holiday even. It should be an occasion to remember the service of everybody who has defended this country or been sent to whatever godforsaken corner of the world to get shot at in the UK national interest. I'm uncomfortable with one person's military service being elevated over another's just for the sake where and when they served.
I agree with @Stu_of_Kunming, @JessieAddick... The sense I got in my 7 years in China is that the vast majority of people have an EXTREMELY strong hatred of Japan and Japanese people.
Ever taught countries' names with flashcards, Stu? Teachers would tell me of 5 year olds that would grab the Japan card, stamp on it and say "bad Japan".
I always accepted that I hadn't educated myself enough about what happened to cause all the hate, but I couldn't help but notice what I have always thought was a deliberate effort by the govt to fan the flames by keeping war dramas on TV and war films being produced (Nanjing! was a big one about 5 years ago, right?)
I mean...at any given time on any given day you can click through the TV channels and find something about wartime China on there. By contrast, I remember war films on UK films as a kid with Germans yelling "achtung" and "schnel".... which have now disappeared in our modern, European Britain.
In both cases, I'm sure it's a deliberate political ploy.... And I can see the value in letting go (as Missed It points out above)....but... Still... I'm sure if I went to see the remnants of the horrors in Nanjing I'd feel anger and it would be hard to control the hate...
...still... Those little 5 year olds grabbing the flashcards.... That isn't rational... That is pure conditioning....
In any case.... Makes sense to me that if you commemorate VE Day, you should have a commemoration for VJ Day.
Yes @Siv_in_Norfolk it happens all the time, one of my classes at my other school used to love calling each other farmers - 你是农民哈哈哈哈 - so I tried to tell them why that's a dumb insult and there are lots of positives to being a farmer, now they just call each other Japanese, so I got them to replace light-hearted humour with outright racism, go me.
Whilst I agree it's outright conditioning and the TV shows are certainly a large part of the brainwashing I do find it somewhat understandable, imagine how different Europe would be if Germany denied the Holocaust and refused to accept any of its heinous actions. What we actually have is the total opposite and a modern day state that does a lot of work to ensure it can never happen again, many wartime leaders/generals are still revered in Japan.
As I said earlier in the thread, my trip to the NMM really did change my outlook, I was 'kinda' aware of what had happened but I really no idea how awful it was, if you're ever visiting the east coast, it is 100% worth a visit, just make sure you schedule a couple of days downtime to get over it, as you'll definitely need it.
I just talked about both of your impressions of Chinese people in regard to Japan with my colleagues over lunch and they were as surprised as me... Maybe it's because of the different parts of the country we live - people in South Jiangsu province where I am tend to be less aggressive. What you see on TV is one thing but whether people will be easily 'brainwashed' is another. Most people of my generation (born in the late 80's and early 90's) seldom watch TV now. We watch things on the internet and choose what we're interested in so no matter how many anti-Japan materials are being aired on TV it doesn't really have any impact on our feelings towards that country. I hate Japan because of what I learned at a very early age. One colleague of mine doesn't like Japan because she's been to the Nanjing Massacre Museum. Another one holds no hatred towards Japan while a few others like many things about them and are even studying Japanese the language after work....
I assume one of the reasons that many people around me don't dislike Japan is that there was and still is a sort of 'Japanese cultural invasion' into China since the 90's, like manga comics, Japanese TV shows and pop music groups/solo singers, etc. A lot of people I know love Japanese food and there're many Japanese restaurants in my city...
To be honest I think films made on the particular subject are necessary because the next Chinese generation seem to be forgetting what happened during the war.
If Japan admitted they had done those crimes and appologised to China, Korea etc. (like Germany), then talk to us about "letting go". Many of their officials and people visit Yasukuni Shrine to pay homage to their "war heroes" every year where WWII Class A war criminals are enshrined ffs. Can you imagine Germans building a memorial hall to commemorate Hitler?! Japan's denying of their crimes is the reason why we should continue educating our children about the war. We shouldn't let it go until at least the Japanese admit what they did to us and the Koreans.
People around the world know about the Holocaust but not many know something similar happened to the Chinese during WWII. And even today there're still voices questioning if the Nanjing Massacre happened or not. So I think this is not something "we should let go" but instead it needs more publicity. We are not doing enough on the world stage regarding this issue.
To be honest I think films made on the particular subject are necessary because the next Chinese generation seem to be forgetting what happened during the war.
If Japan admitted they had done those crimes and appologised to China, Korea etc. (like Germany), then talk to us about "letting go". Many of their officials and people visit Yasukuni Shrine to pay homage to their "war heroes" every year where WWII Class A war criminals are enshrined ffs. Can you imagine Germans building a memorial hall to commemorate Hitler?! Japan's denying of their crimes is the reason why we should continue educating our children about the war. We shouldn't let it go until at least the Japanese admit what they did to us and the Koreans.
People around the world know about the Holocaust but not many know something similar happened to the Chinese during WWII. And even today there're still voices questioning if the Nanjing Massacre happened or not. So I think this is not something "we should let go" but instead it needs more publicity. We are not doing enough on the world stage regarding this issue.
By the same token, I would ask what the state of relations between Germany and the rest of Europe would be like today if every time Germany did anything even slightly controversial everybody would bring up Auschwitz? Do you honestly think that is the way forward to a better, peaceful future? For how many generations should the sins of the father be visited upon the son?
Ten minutes research on the internet will show just how often Japan has apologised for its actions in WW2 in China and Korea.
You really don't see the difference between Germany and Japan? Just look at how the two countries educate their children about what happened.
Germany made it illegal to deny the Holocaust, Japan basically encourages the denial of atrocities in Asia. Not just China, similar things happened all over South East Asia.
Sorry Missed It but Japan's appologies are questionable because their officials worship the war criminals year after year. Abe is a right wing nationalist and he was elected by the Japanese. That says something about the whole nation.
And "if every time Germany did anything even slightly controversial everybody would bring up Auschwitz".... What do you think is "slightly controversial"???
I'm not going to dwell on this subject as you probably think I'm biased. But read what Stu has said on this thread, including his comments about Japan on the previous page. Objective.
For the record, I'm not one of the brainwashed Chinese you probably assumed. I have my own opinions on sensitive issues regarding China politics. I simply don't want to risk my safety to speak on a public forum about them. However this WWII topic is a history issue rather than a political one so I expressed my opinions.
Jessie, no problem at all. I understand and respect your view and your situation. I did disclaim in my original comment that my opinion would probably not be popular but I hope you appreciate that it was made from a desire to see peace and better relations between China, Korea and Japan.
The issue of remembrance can be divisive and difficult but I will explain where I'm coming from. I have a very good friend for whom November 11 is an extremely emotional and distressing occasion. He had close friend who was killed by the IRA and the man's baby daughter was also killed alongside him. Even 30 years later he is visibly upset when it comes to attending remembrance events. Now, the IRA have essentially been forgiven which I personally don't think is right. Those men will never be caught or punished. And yet, I accept that this is the price to pay for peace in Northern Ireland. I personally don't agree that IRA terrorists are essentially given a free pass but British service personnel are still pursued through the courts for their actions during the troubles. I accept that this redress is a price that may have to be paid to maintain peace in Northern Ireland.
None of this is a perfect or completely acceptable solution but it's the best we've been able to manage and in the end, there is basically peace in Northern Ireland. China, Korea and Japan could certainly stand to learn from it.
Holding on to these past atrocities is not the way forward. Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of history. It's the weaponising of history for geopolitical ends.
Jessie, no problem at all. I understand and respect your view and your situation. I did disclaim in my original comment that my opinion would probably not be popular but I hope you appreciate that it was made from a desire to see peace and better relations between China, Korea and Japan.
The issue of remembrance can be divisive and difficult but I will explain where I'm coming from. I have a very good friend for whom November 11 is an extremely emotional and distressing occasion. He had close friend who was killed by the IRA and the man's baby daughter was also killed alongside him. Even 30 years later he is visibly upset when it comes to attending remembrance events. Now, the IRA have essentially been forgiven which I personally don't think is right. Those men will never be caught or punished. And yet, I accept that this is the price to pay for peace in Northern Ireland. I personally don't agree that IRA terrorists are essentially given a free pass but British service personnel are still pursued through the courts for their actions during the troubles. I accept that this redress is a price that may have to be paid to maintain peace in Northern Ireland.
None of this is a perfect or completely acceptable solution but it's the best we've been able to manage and in the end, there is basically peace in Northern Ireland. China, Korea and Japan could certainly stand to learn from it.
Holding on to these past atrocities is not the way forward. Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of history. It's the weaponising of history for geopolitical ends.
In the spirit of helping China and her neighbours learn, can I export Arlene Foster, Michelle O'Neill & co.?????
@Missed It, I'm not entirely sure that I'd agree with your depiction of what PSNI is doing in investigating unsolved murders. There is no amnesty for those who murdered, whether they were terrorists, police or soldiers (or any combination of the three). The police in Northern Ireland have made absolutely clear that that is the case, as, indeed does the wording of the "comfort letters", which merely state that there was no realistic prospect of a successful conviction at that time (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26376541).
In any event I think that the position of Japan's relationship with its role in the Twentieth Century is more like that of Austria than Germany. Unlike the German experience of de-Nazification, Austrians have never had to confront the concept of national shame for the crimes committed in their name. Instead, it is viewed as the first victim.
Japan, with its Yasukuni Shrine (that provides a home and absolution for all Japanese war dead, including war criminals executed after the end of hostilities), is like Austria on steroids. Take, for example, the limited belief that many Japanese have had (historically) of the coercion of "comfort women" from across the Japanese occupied areas.
To deliberately seek to forget the past, as Japan has done, would seem to fit George Santayana's warning. It is only by honestly accepting what was done that there can be resolution. South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission could well be exported worldwide.
Fair points, though I think for all the legal niceties it's clear how things are going to go politically and practically with PSNI investigating past killings. I raised Northern Ireland to point out that to make progress toward peace, you sometimes have to shake hands with some unsavoury people, accept 'sorry, not sorry' apologies and swallow the bitterness over injustice. Upon reflection, I was probably naive in thinking there is any possibility that Japan, China and Korea would be prepared to let grievances slide to make life easier between them all as things stand at the moment.
I've long been fascinated with Japan but I'm not blind to the country's many problems and I often despair at their outdated dinosaur attitudes. The Yasukuni shrine is a particularly difficult issue and exposes conflicting forces of reconciliation and right wing nationalism in the country. I would just call a point of order on your comment that the shrine gives absolution to war dead which somewhat mis-characterises how Shinto works. Unlike the concepts of judgement in Judeo-Christian religions or karma in Buddhism, Shinto doesn't distinguish on that basis. The souls of all living things are treated equally in death. A murderer's soul would be worth the same as child that died of illness or a tree that is blown down in a storm. Shinto is quite superficial in its approach to absolving sin, there's nothing like confession or penance. It's a matter of simple purification. For the living, just washing your hands is enough to do the trick, no remorse required. Essentially, the chief priest at Yasukuni took it upon himself to abuse these Shinto principles to satisfy his own conservative nationalism.
As an atheist, I believe all of the above is superstitious nonsense but I do take an interest in religion as it shapes cultures and informs the reasoning behind behaviour that might otherwise make no sense to those outside that culture.
Without going into the long drawn out complexities of the story, upon learning that war criminals had been enshrined at Yasukuni in secret in the 1970s, emperor Hirohito refused to ever visit the shrine again. The emperor is restrained by Japan's post war pacifist constitution from ever getting directly involved in politics but still chose to make this statement through his actions. His son emperor Akihito has followed in his father's footsteps, making it abundantly clear that the enshrinement of war criminals is unacceptable by never visiting the shrine during his reign. Akihito has spent much of his time travelling across Asia to encourage reconciliation between Japan and its former enemies. The new emperor Naruhito is fully expected to continue on the same path as his father which gives me some hope that Japan can resolve its differences in time.
I find it somewhat ironic that the LDP and the right wing nationalist group Nippon Kaigi that seems to hold an undue and unhealthy influence over it, are so keen to remove the pacifist elements of the constitution and restore the monarchy and yet Akihito and Naruhito are both liberal advocates of peace and reconciliation.
Comments
As an undergraduate in Dublin in the 1980s I was taught by a visiting Professor who had been a US Marine machine gunner at Iwo Jima. He recommended a book, Days of Sadness Years of Triumph, which I thought was brilliant at describing the massive changes wrought on the USA between 1939 and 1945.
@JessieAddick and @Stu_of_Kunming, when you consider the sheer brutality of the Japanese military (mass killings and rape, forced marches, starvation, medical experiments, etc.), easily equivalent to that of the Nazis in Europe, but from 1937 until 1945. Millions died, quite often horribly at the hands of a country which has never, really, had to face up to its responsibility for war of aggression. It's a mystery to me (well, it's not really, when you consider the level of understanding about the war in Eastern Europe) why it is hardly recognised here.
@JessieAddick, I'm almost going to suggest that a China-Northern Ireland exchange scheme be established, just so that we can help with that holding a grudge thing...
A nicer more rounded down to earth cockney gentleman you could ever wish to meet.
He went in as a Private and came out as a Colour Sargeant......caught malaria in the jungle and died in Lewisham as a result of complications from that illness in the late 60.’
He took part in Operation Thursday and was involved in close quarter hand to hand bayonet action at the Battles of Broadway & White City.
There’s a book called War In The Wilderness by Tony Redding (who I have met), which details the unbelievable bravery, sacrifice and history of The Chindits.
His name was also Bill, same as his son,......God Bless you Bill, wherever you are my friend, your bravery will never be forgotten. It was an honour to have known you Sir.
Funnily enough my mates partner is called Kerry....she is a madam in Sydney, running what is considered to be Sydney’s finest and most exclusive brothel ........she is of Irish decent and she retires quite soon, they are coming over to England and will be also visiting Ireland next year for the first time to visit relatives she has never met before.
Anyway thanks all that have signed up for petition, it’s gone up by over 500 since Monday, but unfortunately it closes on the 17/7. It would be great to get the date recognised and anyone who have read some of the stories on here will hopefully agree that the hero’s who were out there, deserve this recognition of there undoubted bravery and sacrifice, some gave the ultimate sacrifice, others were wounded both physically and or mentally and some still bear those scares and night terrors, they deserve our support.
Thank you all.
On a wider geopolitical scale it just contributes to the endless cycle of grievance that pollutes relations between China, Korea and Japan. The narrative suits China's aims of causing friction between Japan and it's allies and now they have S Korea acting as their useful idiots resurrecting forced labour and comfort women issues that were settled by treaty year's ago. (Never mind that the Korean government trousered all that reparation money and didn't give a penny to any of the people directly effected)
The Royal West Kent’s were very prominent at the siege of Kohima.
The second book is the KNIGHTS OF BUSHIDO by Baron Russell telling the story of Japanese war crimes. WARNING this book is not for the faint of heart
What was amazing on that visit, a troop of 80 year old Gherka’s walked for thee day to say hello and shake there hands, before walking home.
By all means, remember those who served and suffered in that theatre, they certainly don't get the recognition they deserve. I believe November 11 should be a bigger deal, a national holiday even. It should be an occasion to remember the service of everybody who has defended this country or been sent to whatever godforsaken corner of the world to get shot at in the UK national interest. I'm uncomfortable with one person's military service being elevated over another's just for the sake where and when they served.
Ever taught countries' names with flashcards, Stu? Teachers would tell me of 5 year olds that would grab the Japan card, stamp on it and say "bad Japan".
I always accepted that I hadn't educated myself enough about what happened to cause all the hate, but I couldn't help but notice what I have always thought was a deliberate effort by the govt to fan the flames by keeping war dramas on TV and war films being produced (Nanjing! was a big one about 5 years ago, right?)
I mean...at any given time on any given day you can click through the TV channels and find something about wartime China on there. By contrast, I remember war films on UK films as a kid with Germans yelling "achtung" and "schnel".... which have now disappeared in our modern, European Britain.
In both cases, I'm sure it's a deliberate political ploy.... And I can see the value in letting go (as Missed It points out above)....but... Still... I'm sure if I went to see the remnants of the horrors in Nanjing I'd feel anger and it would be hard to control the hate...
...still... Those little 5 year olds grabbing the flashcards.... That isn't rational... That is pure conditioning....
In any case.... Makes sense to me that if you commemorate VE Day, you should have a commemoration for VJ Day.
Whilst I agree it's outright conditioning and the TV shows are certainly a large part of the brainwashing I do find it somewhat understandable, imagine how different Europe would be if Germany denied the Holocaust and refused to accept any of its heinous actions. What we actually have is the total opposite and a modern day state that does a lot of work to ensure it can never happen again, many wartime leaders/generals are still revered in Japan.
As I said earlier in the thread, my trip to the NMM really did change my outlook, I was 'kinda' aware of what had happened but I really no idea how awful it was, if you're ever visiting the east coast, it is 100% worth a visit, just make sure you schedule a couple of days downtime to get over it, as you'll definitely need it.
I assume one of the reasons that many people around me don't dislike Japan is that there was and still is a sort of 'Japanese cultural invasion' into China since the 90's, like manga comics, Japanese TV shows and pop music groups/solo singers, etc. A lot of people I know love Japanese food and there're many Japanese restaurants in my city...
To be honest I think films made on the particular subject are necessary because the next Chinese generation seem to be forgetting what happened during the war.
If Japan admitted they had done those crimes and appologised to China, Korea etc. (like Germany), then talk to us about "letting go". Many of their officials and people visit Yasukuni Shrine to pay homage to their "war heroes" every year where WWII Class A war criminals are enshrined ffs. Can you imagine Germans building a memorial hall to commemorate Hitler?! Japan's denying of their crimes is the reason why we should continue educating our children about the war. We shouldn't let it go until at least the Japanese admit what they did to us and the Koreans.
People around the world know about the Holocaust but not many know something similar happened to the Chinese during WWII. And even today there're still voices questioning if the Nanjing Massacre happened or not. So I think this is not something "we should let go" but instead it needs more publicity. We are not doing enough on the world stage regarding this issue.
Ten minutes research on the internet will show just how often Japan has apologised for its actions in WW2 in China and Korea.
Germany made it illegal to deny the Holocaust, Japan basically encourages the denial of atrocities in Asia. Not just China, similar things happened all over South East Asia.
And "if every time Germany did anything even slightly controversial everybody would bring up Auschwitz".... What do you think is "slightly controversial"???
I'm not going to dwell on this subject as you probably think I'm biased. But read what Stu has said on this thread, including his comments about Japan on the previous page. Objective.
For the record, I'm not one of the brainwashed Chinese you probably assumed. I have my own opinions on sensitive issues regarding China politics. I simply don't want to risk my safety to speak on a public forum about them. However this WWII topic is a history issue rather than a political one so I expressed my opinions.
The issue of remembrance can be divisive and difficult but I will explain where I'm coming from. I have a very good friend for whom November 11 is an extremely emotional and distressing occasion. He had close friend who was killed by the IRA and the man's baby daughter was also killed alongside him. Even 30 years later he is visibly upset when it comes to attending remembrance events. Now, the IRA have essentially been forgiven which I personally don't think is right. Those men will never be caught or punished. And yet, I accept that this is the price to pay for peace in Northern Ireland. I personally don't agree that IRA terrorists are essentially given a free pass but British service personnel are still pursued through the courts for their actions during the troubles. I accept that this redress is a price that may have to be paid to maintain peace in Northern Ireland.
None of this is a perfect or completely acceptable solution but it's the best we've been able to manage and in the end, there is basically peace in Northern Ireland. China, Korea and Japan could certainly stand to learn from it.
Holding on to these past atrocities is not the way forward. Unfortunately, it's not just a matter of history. It's the weaponising of history for geopolitical ends.
@Missed It, I'm not entirely sure that I'd agree with your depiction of what PSNI is doing in investigating unsolved murders. There is no amnesty for those who murdered, whether they were terrorists, police or soldiers (or any combination of the three). The police in Northern Ireland have made absolutely clear that that is the case, as, indeed does the wording of the "comfort letters", which merely state that there was no realistic prospect of a successful conviction at that time (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26376541).
In any event I think that the position of Japan's relationship with its role in the Twentieth Century is more like that of Austria than Germany. Unlike the German experience of de-Nazification, Austrians have never had to confront the concept of national shame for the crimes committed in their name. Instead, it is viewed as the first victim.
Japan, with its Yasukuni Shrine (that provides a home and absolution for all Japanese war dead, including war criminals executed after the end of hostilities), is like Austria on steroids. Take, for example, the limited belief that many Japanese have had (historically) of the coercion of "comfort women" from across the Japanese occupied areas.
To deliberately seek to forget the past, as Japan has done, would seem to fit George Santayana's warning. It is only by honestly accepting what was done that there can be resolution. South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission could well be exported worldwide.
I've long been fascinated with Japan but I'm not blind to the country's many problems and I often despair at their outdated dinosaur attitudes. The Yasukuni shrine is a particularly difficult issue and exposes conflicting forces of reconciliation and right wing nationalism in the country. I would just call a point of order on your comment that the shrine gives absolution to war dead which somewhat mis-characterises how Shinto works. Unlike the concepts of judgement in Judeo-Christian religions or karma in Buddhism, Shinto doesn't distinguish on that basis. The souls of all living things are treated equally in death. A murderer's soul would be worth the same as child that died of illness or a tree that is blown down in a storm. Shinto is quite superficial in its approach to absolving sin, there's nothing like confession or penance. It's a matter of simple purification. For the living, just washing your hands is enough to do the trick, no remorse required. Essentially, the chief priest at Yasukuni took it upon himself to abuse these Shinto principles to satisfy his own conservative nationalism.
As an atheist, I believe all of the above is superstitious nonsense but I do take an interest in religion as it shapes cultures and informs the reasoning behind behaviour that might otherwise make no sense to those outside that culture.
Without going into the long drawn out complexities of the story, upon learning that war criminals had been enshrined at Yasukuni in secret in the 1970s, emperor Hirohito refused to ever visit the shrine again. The emperor is restrained by Japan's post war pacifist constitution from ever getting directly involved in politics but still chose to make this statement through his actions. His son emperor Akihito has followed in his father's footsteps, making it abundantly clear that the enshrinement of war criminals is unacceptable by never visiting the shrine during his reign. Akihito has spent much of his time travelling across Asia to encourage reconciliation between Japan and its former enemies. The new emperor Naruhito is fully expected to continue on the same path as his father which gives me some hope that Japan can resolve its differences in time.
I find it somewhat ironic that the LDP and the right wing nationalist group Nippon Kaigi that seems to hold an undue and unhealthy influence over it, are so keen to remove the pacifist elements of the constitution and restore the monarchy and yet Akihito and Naruhito are both liberal advocates of peace and reconciliation.