I doubt she'd even want to, no love lost between the two sets of people.
In fact, I'm pretty sure HKers simply refer to mainlanders as 'dogs' - I remember a few years ago I popped into an HK bar and tried to order a drink in Chinese, I was literally shouted for making such a mistake.
I learned french in school in the 80s, completely forgot it but somehow managed to translate at the local bars in Toulon when my ship pulled in there in 2005. I do remember from the young ones book in 1988 Donnez moi jeteur du flamme? meaning give me a flame thrower
I'm trying to learn Japanese. Bit concerned that I'm learning Textbook Jap and not the stuff they actually use though.
I've been learning Japanese for a few years and in truth, they do teach it a little bit backwards. The 'polite' conjugations are a lot simpler though so you can make yourself understood quicker. Plain and casual forms are what people use every day, but the conjugations and grammar sort of make my head spin a bit so now that I'm learning those I can see why they teach the way they do.
I noticed that too with the conjugations. Had a feeling they would be more likely to speak the causal form! Do particles get used in conversation?
Every day conversation with friends and family would be casual. The difficulty I had was learning verbs in the polite 'imasu' form without being taught the plain form at the same time so I've had to go back to pick up all the vocab again. Even if you don't use it right away its worth looking up the plain form when you get a new verb.
Particles are the vital bits that string the language together. They can get a bit confusing as many particles do several different jobs grammatically depending on the context they're used in. It takes a bit if getting used to.
I enjoy the challenge though. Learning to think backwards is the hardest part I find. Pretending to be Yoda helps!
Thanks. I (deludedly) believe that once I've got my head around the grammar, which seems easier than English but completely different to how we speak I'll just have to remember words.
Like you I welcome the challenge! JessieAddick said:
My biggest problem is deciding what to learn. I live in Hong Kong so have tried Cantonese, but with 9 tones it’s one of the hardest in the world. I can get by ordering food, telling taxi drivers where to go, and knowing if someone is talking about me, but no further.
I tried learning Mandarin which is easier but then decided I’d like to learn a language of a place I dream of living. So I started learning Italian. But then I decided I’d like to learn a more widely spoken language, so I started Spanish. Then I second guessed myself and couldn’t decide between Italian or Spanish.
So now I haven’t been learning anything.
On the subject of Brits not being taught another language early enough, it’s not really in the government’s interests. Similar to Japan, they don’t teach other languages because they don’t want their best and brightest moving abroad, neither does the UK. It's not right but it's the explanation.
Another thing about Cantonese is it isn't on Google translate!
Pretty sure it's just called 'Traditional Chinese' whereas on the mainland we use 'Simplified'
No, both are mandarin! I assumed the same and only found out a few weeks ago.
Cantonese is a dialect whereas simplied/traditional Chinese refers to two different sets of Chinese characters. People in Hong Kong and Taiwan both use traditional Chinese characters. Hong Kong people speak Cantonese but Taiwanese speak Mandarin. People in mainland China speak Mandarin and use simplified Chinese characters.
Ha, simple! Can you speak Cantonese?
I liked a few Hong Kong singers and listened to many Cantonese songs when I was in high school so I learned a slight bit of Cantonese but now have forgotten everything about it.😂
When the common language is English and this is everybody’s second language it comes as no surprise the UK has the lowest percentage. It difficult to chose which foreign to learn hence the varying number of languages that lifers are learning or speak. In Addition it’s difficult to speak a foreign language abroad as they want to practice their English.
Whilst in Sweden I found this the case. If I was to open up in Swedish the swedes would invariably reply in English, if I was to then reply in Swedish we would continue the conversation in Swedish.
A difficult thing is to stumble along in Swedish when they are standing able to have a better command of English than you! Consequently you'd carry on in English.
I've been visiting Sweden to see my wife's family and friends for 10 years now and I'm still next to useless. The problem is everybody speaks English with most very good. One thing I haven't yet noticed is the different dialects when in Stockholm or Malmo. I'm planning a move over in a few years so will utilise the 'Swedish for beginners' free courses for foreigners who are settling. I think I will probably get better when immersed in the language for longer. I tend to stand out at football matches when shouting enthusiastically at the ref, in English, when suddenly dozens of people turn around and stare. 😀
Language and all of its variety...must have taken some form of evolution?
Language is the main reason why us human beings are such a success.
By success, I mostly mean population, creativity and our ability to live for a long time.
I'm sure there is a better way of saying it.
WHY do the Spanish speak Spanish?
WHY do the French speak French?
WHY do the Russians speak Russian?
And so on.
It can't have obviously been "I'm the ruler of this country....called Denmark. I've decided we are going to speak a language in order to communicate. That language will be known as Danish" - in body language.
I’ve just read LDTs answers to the fans forum questions. I can’t figure out what he’s talking about. Does anyone have a basic course in talking Bollocks that I could borrow?
When the common language is English and this is everybody’s second language it comes as no surprise the UK has the lowest percentage. It difficult to chose which foreign to learn hence the varying number of languages that lifers are learning or speak. In Addition it’s difficult to speak a foreign language abroad as they want to practice their English.
Whilst in Sweden I found this the case. If I was to open up in Swedish the swedes would invariably reply in English, if I was to then reply in Swedish we would continue the conversation in Swedish.
A difficult thing is to stumble along in Swedish when they are standing able to have a better command of English than you! Consequently you'd carry on in English.
I've been visiting Sweden to see my wife's family and friends for 10 years now and I'm still next to useless. The problem is everybody speaks English with most very good. One thing I haven't yet noticed is the different dialects when in Stockholm or Malmo. I'm planning a move over in a few years so will utilise the 'Swedish for beginners' free courses for foreigners who are settling. I think I will probably get better when immersed in the language for longer. I tend to stand out at football matches when shouting enthusiastically at the ref, in English, when suddenly dozens of people turn around and stare. 😀
SFI is very important that you stick with it, getting a qualification this way will help in a BIG way to get employment.
Beautiful country and fantastic people, particularly the crumpet.
There should be a lot more focus on learning another language in schools in the UK. The Brits and Americans are so far behind the rest of the world for this and, although English is obviously the global language, there are many reasons to have at least some of another language - work opportunities, better experience when travelling and putting yourself more in the shoes of others. Plus there is some evidence that learning another language can prevent Alzheimer's. Generally it's well worth it and there should be more focus on it in schools plus encouraging adults to learn.
Interesting that you include Americans, a huge number of Americans I have met whilst living abroad can speak at least one other language. They are light years ahead of us in that respect.
I would imagine most Americans living and working outside America would be in the top 10% in educational terms. The average Joe in America may have a smattering of Spanish (the second language culturally) but not much else. From my experience anyway.
At least one foreign language, maybe two, should be compulsory on the National Curriculum from the age of four.
A lot of research suggests children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7.
My wife and I are trying to raise my son to be bilingual, although that's obviously a lot easier for us, as English and Chinese will be native languages for him, we're also planning to live in a 3rd country for a year before he starts kindergarten, which should also help.
Just got to decide where.
I dont understand this 1st sentance mate? Children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7?
There should be a lot more focus on learning another language in schools in the UK. The Brits and Americans are so far behind the rest of the world for this and, although English is obviously the global language, there are many reasons to have at least some of another language - work opportunities, better experience when travelling and putting yourself more in the shoes of others. Plus there is some evidence that learning another language can prevent Alzheimer's. Generally it's well worth it and there should be more focus on it in schools plus encouraging adults to learn.
Interesting that you include Americans, a huge number of Americans I have met whilst living abroad can speak at least one other language. They are light years ahead of us in that respect.
I would imagine most Americans living and working outside America would be in the top 10% in educational terms. The average Joe in America may have a smattering of Spanish (the second language culturally) but not much else. From my experience anyway.
At least one foreign language, maybe two, should be compulsory on the National Curriculum from the age of four.
A lot of research suggests children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7.
My wife and I are trying to raise my son to be bilingual, although that's obviously a lot easier for us, as English and Chinese will be native languages for him, we're also planning to live in a 3rd country for a year before he starts kindergarten, which should also help.
Just got to decide where.
I dont understand this 1st sentance mate? Children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7?
A childs brain is geared towards learning language until roughly the age of 7, so teaching things such as science, math and history at such a young age is not as beneficial as learning multiple language.
According to some research.
This is obviously talking about within an educational setting, obviously children need to learn motor skills, socialization and heaps of other stuff.
Growing up in Israel during the 60s, the vast majority of adults spoke Hebrew as a second language. In me it instilled curiosity and love for accents and 2nd languages (basic French Arabic English). My ambition is to rid myself completely of first language, and judging by the increasing incidents of bemused conversational responders during my last Tel Aviv visit, I'm nearly there. Argentinians are the best though. No matter how miniscule their command of 2nd language is, they still manage to speak it 100 miles an hour - shifting responsibility of making sense of it all to the poor listener.
There should be a lot more focus on learning another language in schools in the UK. The Brits and Americans are so far behind the rest of the world for this and, although English is obviously the global language, there are many reasons to have at least some of another language - work opportunities, better experience when travelling and putting yourself more in the shoes of others. Plus there is some evidence that learning another language can prevent Alzheimer's. Generally it's well worth it and there should be more focus on it in schools plus encouraging adults to learn.
Interesting that you include Americans, a huge number of Americans I have met whilst living abroad can speak at least one other language. They are light years ahead of us in that respect.
I would imagine most Americans living and working outside America would be in the top 10% in educational terms. The average Joe in America may have a smattering of Spanish (the second language culturally) but not much else. From my experience anyway.
At least one foreign language, maybe two, should be compulsory on the National Curriculum from the age of four.
A lot of research suggests children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7.
My wife and I are trying to raise my son to be bilingual, although that's obviously a lot easier for us, as English and Chinese will be native languages for him, we're also planning to live in a 3rd country for a year before he starts kindergarten, which should also help.
Just got to decide where.
I dont understand this 1st sentance mate? Children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7?
A childs brain is geared towards learning language until roughly the age of 7, so teaching things such as science, math and history at such a young age is not as beneficial as learning multiple language.
According to some research.
This is obviously talking about within an educational setting, obviously children need to learn motor skills, socialization and heaps of other stuff.
Language and all of its variety...must have taken some form of evolution?
Language is the main reason why us human beings are such a success.
By success, I mostly mean population, creativity and our ability to live for a long time.
I'm sure there is a better way of saying it.
WHY do the Spanish speak Spanish?
WHY do the French speak French?
WHY do the Russians speak Russian?
And so on.
It can't have obviously been "I'm the ruler of this country....called Denmark. I've decided we are going to speak a language in order to communicate. That language will be known as Danish" - in body language.
Language started to evolve between 2m and 50k years ago - nobody really knows for sure.
Isolation lead to different languages forming and tribalism maintained those differences. The world was obviously not as connected as it is now!
The first development in language was almost certainly linked to communication between humans when hunting and research indicates that climactic conditions played a big part in languages having fewer or more vowel sounds and consonant sounds- to do with how the sound changed over distance- warmer forested climates developed more vowel sounds whilst colder climates more consonants. North west European languages have generally more vowels - Easter European languages more consonants. Not sure what happened with Wales!
Doing this kind of thing certainly helps to improve ones memory.
It's a million times better now then in comparison to the time when this thread began.
The good thing about it is....you can never know "too much".
It will just keep going on and on.
I'm English...yet, my English itself, isn't really that great.
Proves my point.
I do agree though...that no one can ever really end up being really good at this kind of thing, unless you actually move to the country itself and the language is needed for every day needs.
It will then just become apart of you.
You will talk in a natural flowing way.
An Italian lady that moved here....told me about her experience of learning English too. It matches what she said.
There should be a lot more focus on learning another language in schools in the UK. The Brits and Americans are so far behind the rest of the world for this and, although English is obviously the global language, there are many reasons to have at least some of another language - work opportunities, better experience when travelling and putting yourself more in the shoes of others. Plus there is some evidence that learning another language can prevent Alzheimer's. Generally it's well worth it and there should be more focus on it in schools plus encouraging adults to learn.
Interesting that you include Americans, a huge number of Americans I have met whilst living abroad can speak at least one other language. They are light years ahead of us in that respect.
I would imagine most Americans living and working outside America would be in the top 10% in educational terms. The average Joe in America may have a smattering of Spanish (the second language culturally) but not much else. From my experience anyway.
At least one foreign language, maybe two, should be compulsory on the National Curriculum from the age of four.
A lot of research suggests children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7.
My wife and I are trying to raise my son to be bilingual, although that's obviously a lot easier for us, as English and Chinese will be native languages for him, we're also planning to live in a 3rd country for a year before he starts kindergarten, which should also help.
Just got to decide where.
I dont understand this 1st sentance mate? Children should not be learning anything other than language until roughly the age of 7?
A childs brain is geared towards learning language until roughly the age of 7, so teaching things such as science, math and history at such a young age is not as beneficial as learning multiple language.
According to some research.
This is obviously talking about within an educational setting, obviously children need to learn motor skills, socialization and heaps of other stuff.
Understood thanks.
In France they don't teach anything formal til the chidlren are 7
Comments
In fact, I'm pretty sure HKers simply refer to mainlanders as 'dogs' - I remember a few years ago I popped into an HK bar and tried to order a drink in Chinese, I was literally shouted for making such a mistake.
Language is the main reason why us human beings are such a success.
By success, I mostly mean population, creativity and our ability to live for a long time.
I'm sure there is a better way of saying it.
WHY do the Spanish speak Spanish?
WHY do the French speak French?
WHY do the Russians speak Russian?
And so on.
It can't have obviously been "I'm the ruler of this country....called Denmark. I've decided we are going to speak a language in order to communicate. That language will be known as Danish" - in body language.
Beautiful country and fantastic people, particularly the crumpet.
Kom igen Elfsborg! Hata Goteborg.
According to some research.
This is obviously talking about within an educational setting, obviously children need to learn motor skills, socialization and heaps of other stuff.
My ambition is to rid myself completely of first language, and judging by the increasing incidents of bemused conversational responders during my last Tel Aviv visit, I'm nearly there.
Argentinians are the best though.
No matter how miniscule their command of 2nd language is, they still manage to speak it 100 miles an hour - shifting responsibility of making sense of it all to the poor listener.
It's excellent 👍👌
I'm no longer the lonely man in the corner. I'm the man that drinks coffee and casually learns some more Spanish.
Isolation lead to different languages forming and tribalism maintained those differences. The world was obviously not as connected as it is now!
The first development in language was almost certainly linked to communication between humans when hunting and research indicates that climactic conditions played a big part in languages having fewer or more vowel sounds and consonant sounds- to do with how the sound changed over distance- warmer forested climates developed more vowel sounds whilst colder climates more consonants. North west European languages have generally more vowels - Easter European languages more consonants. Not sure what happened with Wales!
Doing this kind of thing certainly helps to improve ones memory.
It's a million times better now then in comparison to the time when this thread began.
The good thing about it is....you can never know "too much".
It will just keep going on and on.
I'm English...yet, my English itself, isn't really that great.
Proves my point.
I do agree though...that no one can ever really end up being really good at this kind of thing, unless you actually move to the country itself and the language is needed for every day needs.
It will then just become apart of you.
You will talk in a natural flowing way.
An Italian lady that moved here....told me about her experience of learning English too. It matches what she said.
If you want to speak to the world - learn English.
I've tried to mix the language in with music I've made...in order to attempt and include the words and phrases for everyday use.
It helps....partially because my short term memory is terrible.
Try and do things that you're rubbish at....is my motto.
Found that quite interesting.
1) Mandrin
2) English