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When Should 'Loans' Not be Allowed ?

Lincsaddick
Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
edited July 2019 in General Charlton
BIG RUMOUR .. Barcelona midfielder Philippe Coutinho, 27, has given his approval to a deal which would see him join former club Liverpool on a two-year loan deal with an option for the Reds to buy the Brazil international for £88m. (Calciomercato - in Italian)

This was on today's BBC website. Liverpool is a rich club and the current European Champions. They sold Coutinho to Barcelona where he was not quite the success that Barcelona had hoped (a matter of opinion).

Should Liverpool and Barcelona be allowed to indulge in sale or return basis transfers ? .. If Liverpool want Coutinho back, they should put up the £88 Million fee and re-sign him now and not be allowed to get his services on the cheap to see if, once again he can be a success for them.
As it stands, Barcelona get a dud off the wages bill (having just signed Griezmann for a reported and ridiculous  £107 Million fee) and Liverpool get two years discounted service from a player they were happy to sell a couple of years ago for a reported £105 Million.

EDIT This appears in 'General Charlton' .. there was no choice as to where to post it


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Comments

  • Covered_End_Lad
    Covered_End_Lad Posts: 5,725
    If barca are happy to sign off on loaning him out then why not?
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,169
    Why not? If he does well then Liverpool will pay £88m for him. If he doesn't then they didn't have to pay his wages for two years. Barce are rich enough that they can live without a fee for Coutinho and he gets to play football. I don't really see who is losing here.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    If Barca want to sell him then they could. 

    I don't get the issue here at all. 
  • swords_alive
    swords_alive Posts: 4,261
    Bringing it back down to earth (as i don't care much about the European giants though accept precedents are more likely to be set there than our level), it niggled me somewhat that we were able to borrow Cullen and Bielik last season who were so much better than any opposition players. It felt like we had an unfair advantage.

    I think it would be fairer to limit loans from just one division higher; i.e. championship only for us last year; premiership this year. On the other hand football has never been fair in my lifetime and there are bigger issues requiring regulation. 
  • Rizzo
    Rizzo Posts: 6,434
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,012
    I'd be very surprised if they're willing to loan him out instead of selling him. They need to recoup money.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,273
    I would only see a problem if they were loaning him to Palace 
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,560
    PWR but in answer to the thread title - when you know the person won't be paying you back ..
  • lordromford
    lordromford Posts: 7,783
    edited July 2019
    The only problem I have with loans is the lack of a cap on the number of players a team can loan out.
    As far as I’m concerned, anyone should be allowed to loan out anyone they like, but the number of players they loan out should be limited, just like they’re limited to how many they can loan in.
    Won’t happen though, as the current situation favours the large, rich clubs who have a lot of influence over the rule makers.
  • paulbaconsarnie
    paulbaconsarnie Posts: 9,423
    Loans should not be allowed when the club the player is registered to already has 5 players on loan to other clubs.
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  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,627
    paulbaconsarnie said:
    Loans should not be allowed when the club the player is registered to already has 5 players on loan to other clubs.
    This......or something along those lines. Premier League sides cant bring anyone in on loan if they are themselves loaning players out. You have to use the players you have first.....or sell them. This especially goes for Chelsea & Man City.
  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,344
    Dont get why Barca would want to loan him, they will need the money if they want to buy Neymar after signing Griezmann, and they could easily sell him.

    Seems very strange from Barca to loan him
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
    golfaddick said:
    paulbaconsarnie said:
    Loans should not be allowed when the club the player is registered to already has 5 players on loan to other clubs.
    This......or something along those lines. Premier League sides cant bring anyone in on loan if they are themselves loaning players out. You have to use the players you have first.....or sell them. This especially goes for Chelsea & Man City.
    Good idea .. for me, no premier club AT ALL should be allowed to borrow players. They all have plenty of money and should stand or fall by the players they buy and sell.
    @swords_alive .. I agree in principle .. I have always been against loans of any sort .. however, the system being what it is, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em .. hypocrisy reigns and without Bielik and Cullen, I doubt we would have been promoted, or at the very least, the job would have been a lot more difficult ((:>)

    I posted this topic just as a personal opinion. Clubs as big and prosperous as Liverpool and Barcelona should not be indulging in 'player swaps' and subsidised loans. To me it smacks of collusion and waters down what professional sports should be all about, i.e. not all pally pally but ultra competitive, on the field and to a certain extent, off it as well
  • ricky_otto
    ricky_otto Posts: 22,600
    paulie8290 said:
    Dont get why Barca would want to loan him, they will need the money if they want to buy Neymar after signing Griezmann, and they could easily sell him.

    Seems very strange from Barca to loan him
    I’m not sure they do need the money. Weren’t they on a transfer embargo for a while? If so they wouldn’t have spent any money during that period - they must have money to burn. 
  • NapaAddick
    NapaAddick Posts: 4,657
    Rizzo said:
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
    Liverpool spent very big last year and they have stated they don't really have much to spend this transfer window. So this does smell odd. I wonder if this is a loan for a year but they have already agreed to sign next year for the £88M as a way to get around certain FFP limits on losses in 2019-20. This would be something worth looking at, for if this supposed "loan deal" is really just a sale in disguise solely to get around FFP loss limits at the expense of other clubs in the PL, it would be questionable.
  • JiMMy 85
    JiMMy 85 Posts: 10,193
    ricky_otto said:
    paulie8290 said:
    Dont get why Barca would want to loan him, they will need the money if they want to buy Neymar after signing Griezmann, and they could easily sell him.

    Seems very strange from Barca to loan him
    I’m not sure they do need the money. Weren’t they on a transfer embargo for a while? If so they wouldn’t have spent any money during that period - they must have money to burn. 
    I saw a headline the other day that said they were €900m in debt. Made me feel better about my credit card. 
  • Solidgone
    Solidgone Posts: 10,207
    ...when you are not alone. 🤗
  • harveys_gardener
    harveys_gardener Posts: 7,038
    JiMMy 85 said:
    ricky_otto said:
    paulie8290 said:
    Dont get why Barca would want to loan him, they will need the money if they want to buy Neymar after signing Griezmann, and they could easily sell him.

    Seems very strange from Barca to loan him
    I’m not sure they do need the money. Weren’t they on a transfer embargo for a while? If so they wouldn’t have spent any money during that period - they must have money to burn. 
    I saw a headline the other day that said they were €900m in debt. Made me feel better about my credit card. 
    I hear Barcelona Council are about to buy a shed on the training ground for €1bn.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    NapaAddick said:
    Rizzo said:
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
    Liverpool spent very big last year and they have stated they don't really have much to spend this transfer window. So this does smell odd. I wonder if this is a loan for a year but they have already agreed to sign next year for the £88M as a way to get around certain FFP limits on losses in 2019-20. This would be something worth looking at, for if this supposed "loan deal" is really just a sale in disguise solely to get around FFP loss limits at the expense of other clubs in the PL, it would be questionable.
    I don’t think so, Liverpool posted nice profits. I think they could afford him but why pay it when they might not have to. 
  • NapaAddick
    NapaAddick Posts: 4,657
    cafcfan1990 said:
    NapaAddick said:
    Rizzo said:
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
    Liverpool spent very big last year and they have stated they don't really have much to spend this transfer window. So this does smell odd. I wonder if this is a loan for a year but they have already agreed to sign next year for the £88M as a way to get around certain FFP limits on losses in 2019-20. This would be something worth looking at, for if this supposed "loan deal" is really just a sale in disguise solely to get around FFP loss limits at the expense of other clubs in the PL, it would be questionable.
    I don’t think so, Liverpool posted nice profits. I think they could afford him but why pay it when they might not have to. 
    Could be. But why would Barca not want cash NOW for unloading such a good player? They need every penny if they want to land Neymar, which by all accounts they can't afford currently without selling a player or two.
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  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    NapaAddick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    NapaAddick said:
    Rizzo said:
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
    Liverpool spent very big last year and they have stated they don't really have much to spend this transfer window. So this does smell odd. I wonder if this is a loan for a year but they have already agreed to sign next year for the £88M as a way to get around certain FFP limits on losses in 2019-20. This would be something worth looking at, for if this supposed "loan deal" is really just a sale in disguise solely to get around FFP loss limits at the expense of other clubs in the PL, it would be questionable.
    I don’t think so, Liverpool posted nice profits. I think they could afford him but why pay it when they might not have to. 
    Could be. But why would Barca not want cash NOW for unloading such a good player? They need every penny if they want to land Neymar, which by all accounts they can't afford currently without selling a player or two.
    Who would pay 88m now?

    They can only get that after a succesful loan, so they're maximizing his value, potentially.
  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,344
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    NapaAddick said:
    cafcfan1990 said:
    NapaAddick said:
    Rizzo said:
    Not really seeing the issue. Got up on wrong side of bed Lincs?
    Liverpool spent very big last year and they have stated they don't really have much to spend this transfer window. So this does smell odd. I wonder if this is a loan for a year but they have already agreed to sign next year for the £88M as a way to get around certain FFP limits on losses in 2019-20. This would be something worth looking at, for if this supposed "loan deal" is really just a sale in disguise solely to get around FFP loss limits at the expense of other clubs in the PL, it would be questionable.
    I don’t think so, Liverpool posted nice profits. I think they could afford him but why pay it when they might not have to. 
    Could be. But why would Barca not want cash NOW for unloading such a good player? They need every penny if they want to land Neymar, which by all accounts they can't afford currently without selling a player or two.
    Who would pay 88m now?

    They can only get that after a succesful loan, so they're maximizing his value, potentially.
    Put him in the deal with Neymar.

    Offer PSG say £130M plus Coutinho.

    Seems a good deal to me
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    What if PSG don't want to do it that way? If it wasn't what the thought to be the best they can do, They wouldn't do it.

    Barca wouldn't just hand over a gift to a direct competitor
  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,344
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    What if PSG don't want to do it that way? If it wasn't what the thought to be the best they can do, They wouldn't do it.

    Barca wouldn't just hand over a gift to a direct competitor
    Personally think PSG would be mad not to take that.

    £130M in the bank and a replacement fir Neymar.

    If Barca pay what they sold him for like PSG want, would PSG get a decent replacement for under £60M I doubt it.

    I mean its all hypothetical because Barca havent offered that, but if I was Barca I would and if I was PSG I would take it
  • LennyLowrent
    LennyLowrent Posts: 2,705
    This thread is like doing scales on the piano.
    Helpful, logical, and necessary
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    paulie8290 said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    What if PSG don't want to do it that way? If it wasn't what the thought to be the best they can do, They wouldn't do it.

    Barca wouldn't just hand over a gift to a direct competitor
    Personally think PSG would be mad not to take that.

    £130M in the bank and a replacement fir Neymar.

    If Barca pay what they sold him for like PSG want, would PSG get a decent replacement for under £60M I doubt it.

    I mean its all hypothetical because Barca havent offered that, but if I was Barca I would and if I was PSG I would take it
    It's a proper crappy deal for PSG if he doesn't refind his form, which is exactly why Barca are loaning him out, in the hope it increases his value.
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,811
    talking of Barcelona, anyone see the video of what they plan to do to the Nou Camp over the next 4 years, literally amazing.

    can't remember where I saw it and no idea how to link it even if I did, but it's worth a google and a look
  • stackitsteve
    stackitsteve Posts: 12,102
    Elthamaddick said:
    talking of Barcelona, anyone see the video of what they plan to do to the Nou Camp over the next 4 years, literally amazing.

    can't remember where I saw it and no idea how to link it even if I did, but it's worth a google and a look
    Not sure if this is the one you mean as its over a year old...


    https://youtu.be/cXyNgplnW04
  • stackitsteve
    stackitsteve Posts: 12,102
    The basics remain the same as the video above but order of construction has changed

    https://www.90min.com/posts/6313760-barcelona-make-radical-change-to-planned-camp-nou-renovation-with-work-to-last-until-2023
  • Johnnysummers5
    Johnnysummers5 Posts: 8,469
    Beware of sharks

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