I am 50/50 on this tbh, I want to blame RD for it, but I cant really. Under any ownership it happens. RD/we have been lucky/unlucky (delete as appropriate) with the volume over the last 5 years. I'll do a proper analysis in a couple of hours but Mrs 4ever wants her tea
I disagree, yes all clubs sell players, but we have sold Grant, Aribo, Bauer and Dijksteel in the past 8 months and got under £5M for the lot.
Noone else would have sold those 4 for so little
We got less than 2 for Jenkinson, poyet, shelvey and Palmer
The market has inflated significantly since then.. Palmer was poached under soldEPPP not.
And Dale was caused by the spivs running out of money. The alternative was letting him leave for nothing in the summer, like Hamer did
The thing I find difficult is not getting upset when we sell players for way below their value. The natural reaction for 45 years has been feeling gutted when players go for a song - less money to re-invest.
Now I know that the money will not be re-invested, and just go straight into RD's pocket, I have to remind myself that he is screwing himself over, and no-one else.
So let them all go on a free as far as I am concerned...
The man is a billionaire - the money is irrelevant to him and I don't understand why people think it is? I think his main aim at present is to sabotage the squad.
The way the club is being run is so illogical I can only assume he is primarily motivated by spite and vindictiveness. If he was as bothered by money as people claim he wouldn't run the club like this.
I don't think he is desperate to sell and I'm sure he's enjoying our pain.
He is inflicting no pain on me though, that's my point. It is a strange feeling, and I would rather not be there, but it is what it is.
The players would leave anyway - he's just not getting full value for them. Whether he cares or not, it is doing no damage to CAFC as the club stands with him in charge.
The thing I find difficult is not getting upset when we sell players for way below their value. The natural reaction for 45 years has been feeling gutted when players go for a song - less money to re-invest.
Now I know that the money will not be re-invested, and just go straight into RD's pocket, I have to remind myself that he is screwing himself over, and no-one else.
So let them all go on a free as far as I am concerned...
The man is a billionaire - the money is irrelevant to him and I don't understand why people think it is? I think his main aim at present is to sabotage the squad.
The way the club is being run is so illogical I can only assume he is primarily motivated by spite and vindictiveness. If he was as bothered by money as people claim he wouldn't run the club like this.
I don't think he is desperate to sell and I'm sure he's enjoying our pain.
He is inflicting no pain on me though, that's my point. It is a strange feeling, and I would rather not be there, but it is what it is.
The players would leave anyway - he's just not getting full value for them. Whether he cares or not, it is doing no damage to CAFC as the club stands with him in charge.
I find it painful watching what he's doing to the club - I wish I didn't.
The thing I find difficult is not getting upset when we sell players for way below their value. The natural reaction for 45 years has been feeling gutted when players go for a song - less money to re-invest.
Now I know that the money will not be re-invested, and just go straight into RD's pocket, I have to remind myself that he is screwing himself over, and no-one else.
So let them all go on a free as far as I am concerned...
The man is a billionaire - the money is irrelevant to him and I don't understand why people think it is? I think his main aim at present is to sabotage the squad.
The way the club is being run is so illogical I can only assume he is primarily motivated by spite and vindictiveness. If he was as bothered by money as people claim he wouldn't run the club like this.
I don't think he is desperate to sell and I'm sure he's enjoying our pain.
He is inflicting no pain on me though, that's my point. It is a strange feeling, and I would rather not be there, but it is what it is.
The players would leave anyway - he's just not getting full value for them. Whether he cares or not, it is doing no damage to CAFC as the club stands with him in charge.
I envy you then, Perry. Especially with you knowing what you do about recent events. Me, I'm at boiling point, and talking with other like-minded people about Belgium and its many delights...
I am talking about the subject of the thread in isolation. If "we" get full price for players, not one penny goes into improving the playing side of the club, it all goes in RD's pocket. Why should I care that he is stitching himself up?
Yes it is all part of his utter madness, but in the real world he is hurting only himself.
I am talking about the subject of the thread in isolation. If "we" get full price for players, not one penny goes into improving the playing side of the club, it all goes in RD's pocket. Why should I care that he is stitching himself up?
Yes it is all part of his utter madness, but in the real world he is hurting only himself.
I agree to a large extent, although the difficulty is that his lamentable failure to get a decent prices for players increases the level of losses and the amount “owed” to Staprix. I think it was reported at £62 million earlier this year when the 2017/18 accounts were finally published. That, in turn, leads him to demand extortionate and wholly unrealistic prices for the club, thereby prolonging his ownership of the club.
I am talking about the subject of the thread in isolation. If "we" get full price for players, not one penny goes into improving the playing side of the club, it all goes in RD's pocket. Why should I care that he is stitching himself up?
Yes it is all part of his utter madness, but in the real world he is hurting only himself.
I agree to a large extent, although the difficulty is that his lamentable failure to get a decent prices for players increases the level of losses and the amount “owed” to Staprix. I think it was reported at £62 million earlier this year when the 2017/18 accounts were finally published. That, in turn, leads him to demand extortionate and wholly unrealistic prices for the club, thereby prolonging his ownership of the club.
Duchatelet does not live in the real world.
I also agree with what you are saying to a large extent. But I think in his world, the price he is asking for the club would be no different if he had sold players at a decent price and made an extra 40 million over the past four years. In fact, he might value it even higher for that very reason?
I am talking about the subject of the thread in isolation. If "we" get full price for players, not one penny goes into improving the playing side of the club, it all goes in RD's pocket. Why should I care that he is stitching himself up?
Yes it is all part of his utter madness, but in the real world he is hurting only himself.
I agree to a large extent, although the difficulty is that his lamentable failure to get a decent prices for players increases the level of losses and the amount “owed” to Staprix. I think it was reported at £62 million earlier this year when the 2017/18 accounts were finally published. That, in turn, leads him to demand extortionate and wholly unrealistic prices for the club, thereby prolonging his ownership of the club.
Duchatelet does not live in the real world.
I also agree with what you are saying to a large extent. But I think in his world, the price he is asking for the club would be no different if he had sold players at a decent price and made an extra 40 million over the past four years. In fact, he might value it even higher for that very reason?
Quite possibly. It is impossible to understand Duchatelet's behaviour and what is going on inside his head. I suspect there is more than a fair sprinkling of muddled thinking and vindictiveness.
I am prepared to do a little bit more on this tomorrow, but now Mrs 43v3r is fed and watered I have a few minutes. A look at some of our academy players over the last 5 or 6 years.
Rob Elliot last year of contract wouldn't resign, sold for £400k
Carl Jenkinson wouldn't resign but him and his dad wouldn't let us be screwed and increased Arsenal's offer. Hats off but still in the £1 million ball park?
Kasey Palmer, the goal keeper and Joe Gomez. I have grouped these 3 together, and I can't remember the keepers name (he went to Arsenal iirc). Two of them didn't sign pro contracts and left for pennies, one did but only on the basis he has a get out clause. Less than 4 million for all 3.
Lookman, £10 millionish for a league 1 player? Is it still a record?
JJ Shelvey. Can't play in the last 5 or 6 games of the season, when we could have still got in the autos? Missed the play offs, still less than a million!!!!
Poyet, how the spivs let him play with out a proper contract God knows. Peanuts then, a fortune looking at how is career has gone, its always 20:20
Jordan Cousins, one of 2 academy boys given a "proper" contract, was it to much? Did we HAVE to then sell him to get him off the wage bill? Intresting one.
Grant, when, why and when would the 2 ever meet. Been done to death, sold for about 1.5 million, to much and to little in less than a year.
Konsa. He needed to leave when we didn't go up. Very badly done, even if the need due to FFP, there are ways around that. A bit of a cock up.
Aribo what a total cocks arse of Roland's making. Noone else to blame, total balls up, have 1 year to get a good deal, then another 6 months to do "a deal".
That's off the top of my head, the last player Charlton sold and I thought "we have had their pants down there" was probably Colin Pates.
Following the Colin Pates' observation.....Claus Jensen to Fulham?
Joe Gomez was the steal of the decade - yet i still got slaughtered for suggesting so.
Well they were talking out of their arses then. Not only was it a steal but it was pre-agreed by his agent with Liverpool. Did no one with half a brain not ask themselves why others were not linked? Others knew it was done, that's why. Stroke of Meire genius, that one, I guess. But with his full backing of course, I mean, such a talented young, er, trainee lawyer...
I am prepared to do a little bit more on this tomorrow, but now Mrs 43v3r is fed and watered I have a few minutes. A look at some of our academy players over the last 5 or 6 years.
Rob Elliot last year of contract wouldn't resign, sold for £400k
Carl Jenkinson wouldn't resign but him and his dad wouldn't let us be screwed and increased Arsenal's offer. Hats off but still in the £1 million ball park?
Kasey Palmer, the goal keeper and Joe Gomez. I have grouped these 3 together, and I can't remember the keepers name (he went to Arsenal iirc). Two of them didn't sign pro contracts and left for pennies, one did but only on the basis he has a get out clause. Less than 4 million for all 3.
Lookman, £10 millionish for a league 1 player? Is it still a record?
JJ Shelvey. Can't play in the last 5 or 6 games of the season, when we could have still got in the autos? Missed the play offs, still less than a million!!!!
Poyet, how the spivs let him play with out a proper contract God knows. Peanuts then, a fortune looking at how is career has gone, its always 20:20
Jordan Cousins, one of 2 academy boys given a "proper" contract, was it to much? Did we HAVE to then sell him to get him off the wage bill? Intresting one.
Grant, when, why and when would the 2 ever meet. Been done to death, sold for about 1.5 million, to much and to little in less than a year.
Konsa. He needed to leave when we didn't go up. Very badly done, even if the need due to FFP, there are ways around that. A bit of a cock up.
Aribo what a total cocks arse of Roland's making. Noone else to blame, total balls up, have 1 year to get a good deal, then another 6 months to do "a deal".
That's off the top of my head, the last player Charlton sold and I thought "we have had their pants down there" was probably Colin Pates.
Following the Colin Pates' observation.....Claus Jensen to Fulham?
Joe Gomez was the steal of the decade - yet i still got slaughtered for suggesting so.
Well they were talking out of their arses then. Not only was it a steal but it was pre-agreed by his agent with Liverpool. Did no one with half a brain not ask themselves why others were not linked? Others knew it was done, that's why. Stroke of Meire genius, that one, I guess. But with his full backing of course, I mean, such a talented young, er, trainee lawyer...
Not doubting what your saying, but if he hadn't signed that deal, which I believe was his 1st pro deal, he could have left under EPP like Palmer? We would have got a few hundred grand? What would you have done?
Joe Gomez was the steal of the decade - yet i still got slaughtered for suggesting so.
Well they were talking out of their arses then. Not only was it a steal but it was pre-agreed by his agent with Liverpool. Did no one with half a brain not ask themselves why others were not linked? Others knew it was done, that's why. Stroke of Meire genius, that one, I guess. But with his full backing of course, I mean, such a talented young, er, trainee lawyer...
Not doubting what your saying, but if he hadn't signed that deal, which I believe was his 1st pro deal, he could have left under EPP like Palmer? We would have got a few hundred grand? What would you have done?
I don't follow you. Do you believe that no other FAPL club had spotted his talent as Liverpool had done? It would appear that Meire agreed with his agent that Liverpool could have him, exclusively. Why on earth would you do that, if you understood his talent and potential, understood that the market had just twisted up again with the signing of a new TV deal, and that English players command a premium just for being English.
As for what I would have done? You mean if I owned Charlton and had his financial resource?: I would:
- have a CEO with extensive football experience and negotiating skills. - make sure I had a proper benchmarking system to monitor transfer values - make contractual plans so that young talent could reasonably be expected to stay for two full seasons in the first team - and all this in support of the overall business objective, to achieve FAPL status in a given time frame.
Joe Gomez was the steal of the decade - yet i still got slaughtered for suggesting so.
Well they were talking out of their arses then. Not only was it a steal but it was pre-agreed by his agent with Liverpool. Did no one with half a brain not ask themselves why others were not linked? Others knew it was done, that's why. Stroke of Meire genius, that one, I guess. But with his full backing of course, I mean, such a talented young, er, trainee lawyer...
Not doubting what your saying, but if he hadn't signed that deal, which I believe was his 1st pro deal, he could have left under EPP like Palmer? We would have got a few hundred grand? What would you have done?
I don't follow you. Do you believe that no other FAPL club had spotted his talent as Liverpool had done? It would appear that Meire agreed with his agent that Liverpool could have him, exclusively. Why on earth would you do that, if you understood his talent and potential, understood that the market had just twisted up again with the signing of a new TV deal, and that English players command a premium just for being English.
As for what I would have done? You mean if I owned Charlton and had his financial resource?: I would:
- have a CEO with extensive football experience and negotiating skills. - make sure I had a proper benchmarking system to monitor transfer values - make contractual plans so that young talent could reasonably be expected to stay for two full seasons in the first team - and all this in support of the overall business objective, to achieve FAPL status in a given time frame.
" It would appear that Meire agreed with his agent that Liverpool could have him, exclusively" apologies but I took your original post to mean that his agent did the deal, not that Meire agreed the exclusivity.
With regards "what would you have done" I ment if an agent of a player has no pro contract and says "this is the only one he will sign, or he walks under EPP" how would you deal with that?
Either way it's the agents and the whole EPP that's the bigger problem than Mier in this isolated case. That is not a defence of her in any way shape or form.
For clarity I agree totally with your last 4 points.
Well I hate agents with a passion but so, supposedly, does RD,and every young talented player like Gomez has an agent. Yet they don't get sold for such ludicrous sums and certainly not in a way which excludes a bidding war, of the type we are now apparently trying to create for Lyle Taylor.
So in answer to your question I wouldn't be starting from here. This case was just one consequence of his arrogant, deluded and disingenuous reign which was a disaster from January 2014 continuously.
It makes diddly squat difference whether we sell a player for £100m or £1m under this ownership.
The owner is wealthy enough to sell a player for £1m and pump £10m into the playing squad should he so choose to.
Unfortunately we have an oddball in charge who could sell a player for £100m and the playing squad wouldn't likely see a proportionate amount of reinvestment going on the evidence of the last few years.
It's entirely at his discretion what gets invested and not sure there would be a correlation of bigger reinvestment if the club received bigger sale fees.
Well I hate agents with a passion but so, supposedly, does RD,and every young talented player like Gomez has an agent. Yet they don't get sold for such ludicrous sums and certainly not in a way which excludes a bidding war, of the type we are now apparently trying to create for Lyle Taylor.
So in answer to your question I wouldn't be starting from here. This case was just one consequence of his arrogant, deluded and disingenuous reign which was a disaster from January 2014 continuously.
I actually think it was a minor miracle that Joe ever actually played for us, he was obviously that good, at 14 or 15, that I am shocked someone like Arsenal didn't take him then. EPP screwed us almost as much as Roland has.
We really are is a perfect storm of initials aren't we EPP, FFP, RD, EFL I could go on.
Well I hate agents with a passion but so, supposedly, does RD,and every young talented player like Gomez has an agent. Yet they don't get sold for such ludicrous sums and certainly not in a way which excludes a bidding war, of the type we are now apparently trying to create for Lyle Taylor.
So in answer to your question I wouldn't be starting from here. This case was just one consequence of his arrogant, deluded and disingenuous reign which was a disaster from January 2014 continuously.
I actually think it was a minor miracle that Joe ever actually played for us, he was obviously that good, at 14 or 15, that I am shocked someone like Arsenal didn't take him then. EPP screwed us almost as much as Roland has.
We really are is a perfect storm of initials aren't we EPP, FFP, RD, EFL I could go on.
EPP is a pile of shit, I agree. But it affects all the non FAPL clubs. Those who have serious owners and who employ serious people to run operations, work out strategies for dealing with it.
We, however are talking about the owner who seriously thinks that the EFL could and should take the club off his hands ( and for his valuation).
Comments
The players would leave anyway - he's just not getting full value for them. Whether he cares or not, it is doing no damage to CAFC as the club stands with him in charge.
Yes it is all part of his utter madness, but in the real world he is hurting only himself.
Duchatelet does not live in the real world.
As for what I would have done? You mean if I owned Charlton and had his financial resource?: I would:
- have a CEO with extensive football experience and negotiating skills.
- make sure I had a proper benchmarking system to monitor transfer values
- make contractual plans so that young talent could reasonably be expected to stay for two full seasons in the first team
- and all this in support of the overall business objective, to achieve FAPL status in a given time frame.
With regards "what would you have done" I ment if an agent of a player has no pro contract and says "this is the only one he will sign, or he walks under EPP" how would you deal with that?
Either way it's the agents and the whole EPP that's the bigger problem than Mier in this isolated case. That is not a defence of her in any way shape or form.
For clarity I agree totally with your last 4 points.
So in answer to your question I wouldn't be starting from here. This case was just one consequence of his arrogant, deluded and disingenuous reign which was a disaster from January 2014 continuously.
The owner is wealthy enough to sell a player for £1m and pump £10m into the playing squad should he so choose to.
Unfortunately we have an oddball in charge who could sell a player for £100m and the playing squad wouldn't likely see a proportionate amount of reinvestment going on the evidence of the last few years.
It's entirely at his discretion what gets invested and not sure there would be a correlation of bigger reinvestment if the club received bigger sale fees.
We really are is a perfect storm of initials aren't we EPP, FFP, RD, EFL I could go on.
We, however are talking about the owner who seriously thinks that the EFL could and should take the club off his hands ( and for his valuation).