I'd get in touch with the Toby Carvery as a business mate and just complain about it (Going so far as to say that if they refuse then you'll permanently take your custom else where), they'll soon get it rescinded for you
I did the same with Aldi and ParkingEye in Dartford - Sent them an email saying that they can either get the £50 from me or I'd never use Aldi for my shopping ever again, despite never actually shopping in there in the first place
The worst thing you can do regardless if they dont (I'd be very surprised) is pay it though as they'll win when they cant enforce it!!
You could easily just ignore it - Euro Car Parks are one of the weakest companies out there for this sort of thing and NEVER seriously I mean NEVER take people to court over these notices - I parked in one myself on a daily basis near my work for about six months, got about 10 notices through my post demanding money, offering a smaller payment each time saying that if I didnt pay up them the next time I'd be taken to court, only to receive a further letter reminding that I needed to pay up, after about six months the hassling did stop though and have never heard from them again
Thank you FA. I’ve contacted Toby Carvery as a business now, I’ll also go in to the restaurant as well over the next day or so.
Do you recommend appealing to Euro Car Parks if the Toby Carvery doesn’t do anything themselves? Or just ignore the letters completely as they’re not going to do anything or enforce anything?
Send them a letter asking for the serial number of all pieces of electronic equipment they have used in the entire process. With photographs as evidence. Give them seven days to reply.
along with respective calibration certificates
Might sound stupid, but what will this achieve, I don’t particularly understand?
Send them a letter asking for the serial number of all pieces of electronic equipment they have used in the entire process. With photographs as evidence. Give them seven days to reply.
along with respective calibration certificates
Might sound stupid, but what will this achieve, I don’t particularly understand?
Think that’s more of a case if you get caught speeding by a camera.
The pub does own the car park, it takes an income from the car park company, whilst the car park company makes profit from fining everyone it can.
The original "crime" was overstaying and they gave a timescale (Ten minutes). So the measurement is time. How do we know there timing equipment is accurate?
Appeal it telling them what happened and if they say no then say to them "See you in court!"
This. It wouldnt get that far of course, but I''d like to see any judge trying to uphold a fine when you haven't even used the premises.
Btw. Why do they need to register who is using the car park. Is thus the carvery opposite the leisure centre & near the park...?? Why would you want to park there if you werent using the pub...?? Surely not for the train station.
I'd get in touch with the Toby Carvery as a business mate and just complain about it (Going so far as to say that if they refuse then you'll permanently take your custom else where), they'll soon get it rescinded for you
I did the same with Aldi and ParkingEye in Dartford - Sent them an email saying that they can either get the £50 from me or I'd never use Aldi for my shopping ever again, despite never actually shopping in there in the first place
The worst thing you can do regardless if they dont (I'd be very surprised) is pay it though as they'll win when they cant enforce it!!
You could easily just ignore it - Euro Car Parks are one of the weakest companies out there for this sort of thing and NEVER seriously I mean NEVER take people to court over these notices - I parked in one myself on a daily basis near my work for about six months, got about 10 notices through my post demanding money, offering a smaller payment each time saying that if I didnt pay up them the next time I'd be taken to court, only to receive a further letter reminding that I needed to pay up, after about six months the hassling did stop though and have never heard from them again
Thank you FA. I’ve contacted Toby Carvery as a business now, I’ll also go in to the restaurant as well over the next day or so.
Do you recommend appealing to Euro Car Parks if the Toby Carvery doesn’t do anything themselves? Or just ignore the letters completely as they’re not going to do anything or enforce anything?
The money saving expert links should provide advice and letter templates on appealing directly to the likes of Euro Car Parks
You could use one of them but in my experience with them I didnt bother (although that was because I didnt feel as though I had a decent excuse to appeal in the first place)
Maybe wait and see what the Toby come back to you with (provided its within a day or two) before putting any further appeals in with ECP etc.
It is an invoice. They 'police' the Falcon car park at Falconwood as well as others. It is a parking charge notice not a penalty charge notice although they try to dress it up as such.
My advice is ignore it. You will get a debt recovery letter in due course from DRP I think then a red final one then an offer of a reduced payment. Ignore them all and you will then get a debt recovery letter from Zenith.
They are all departments of the same outfit and they rely on frightening people into paying. Eventually they give up.
I've had quite a few and not paid one. Best advice from me is just don't acknowledge them in any way.
It is an invoice. They 'police' the Falcon car park at Falconwood as well as others. It is a parking charge notice not a penalty charge notice although they try to dress it up as such.
My advice is ignore it. You will get a debt recovery letter in due course from DRP I think then a red final one then an offer of a reduced payment. Ignore them all and you will then get a debt recovery letter from Zenith.
They are all departments of the same outfit and they rely on frightening people into paying. Eventually they give up.
I've had quite a few and not paid one. Best advice from me is just don't acknowledge them in any way.
Doesn't it give you grounds for appeal? Normally says on the back, can do it online and state your case there. Worth a shot, I have in the past, even when unsuccessful they will just put the notice on hold and once they have confirmed whether successful or not it wont go up if you pay it in time still.
I think I have been successful a couple of times but more so not, worth a shot. I've done several times because of an app where I accidentally paid for other vehicles, or a different road. I know stupid , but easier than you think sometimes first thing in the morning ir if in a hurry.
I would say you have valid grounds personally when you have confirmed you was only trying to get a booking, also confirmation you were there only 10 minutes, that should be reasonable enough to challenge in my opinion. Good luck
Yes on the back is a number to call, doesn’t say if it’s a fee number and there is no online option to appeal.
If there is an online way to pay, you can appeal using the PCN no , check it out put it in as if you are paying and there should be an option, not really sure about the phone option.
I'd involve the Toby Carvery management and get them to explain the situation and circumstances to their parking goons.
It would be an absolute scandal for you to have to pay a Parking Charge when you didn't even benefit from the premises.
In fact, digressing slightly, it's a bloody cheek for a pub or restaurant to have the temerity to charge parking at all when you are going in their to spend money!
I never frequent establishments that charge parking in those circumstances as a matter of principle.
Don’t think they charge Len. think you just have to register your number plate when going in. its to prevent non customers using the car park.
That’s right, they have a little tablet thing indoors that you have to enter the number plate. But I didn’t even get that far to get inside and enter the number plate as they were turning us away outside.
Used to work in parking so if you need any more help give me a shout, however my advice is as follows:
Whilst Euro Car Parks cannot enforce the fine directly, they can use a 3rd party to enforce so do not ignore it. In addition, they appear to have followed the rules and regs on this and would be considered to be in the right.
Euro Car Parks will be enforcing the car park for free on the basis they collect all the fine money. In addition they have to pay to send the fine to you as there is a DVLA charge to get your details from the number plate so will probably not just let it go so the appeal would only serve to extend your time.
Call the pub and explain, they will be able to wave the fine on your behalf by contacting the enforcement company. If they were not allowing access to the machine, the fault is theirs so you can easily push that argument.
You have 10 minutes grace (some car parks offer longer) when you enter any UK car park to determine if you want to park there and pay for your ticket/register your car, so you are only outside that by a minute. I use this to my advantage, knowing an attendant or company has to prove I parked for 10 minutes means I never pay for any parking when I categorically know I will be there for less than that time period.
So, I recently got a Parking Charge Notice which is different to a Penalty Charge Notice and issued by a private firm. Some of which have a dodgy history. Those registered with the DVLA have obviously retrieved your details legitimately so I wouldn't ignore. A Parking Charge Notice stuck to your car is different as the private car park possibly are not registered with the DVLA and therefore can not chase you for payment.
On Cricket World Cup final day we watched the 1st innings at home, before driving to Greenwich to watch the 2nd innings with friends. We drove into the car park in the high street where the Salisbury's is, parked up - read the notice, rang and registered and paid £10 for 4 hours parking (to take us past the 6.30pm cut off by 45 minutes as it was 3.15pm). Received the confirmation text and entered my reg details etc. Sorted.
We watched the match, celebrated afterwards and I left the boys to the after party celebrations leaving the car park after a sainsbury's shop at 9.15pm ish.
Two and a half weeks later I received a Parking Charge Notice to say I overstayed. You can't ring them, you can't email them, you can appeal online to which they reply by post. In their defense the fines are issued automatically due to the vehicle recognition cameras on the entrance and exit. And whilst appealing the fine is paused so you still only have to pay the 'reduced' amount. My appeal was rejected so I reluctantly paid the £60 on Monday. I appealed as I'd paid up to the 6.30pm cut off time, but although they didn't explicitly state it in the fine or the letter, I do recall at the parking site there was a '4 hours maximum stay'.
I thought that once the 'restricted time' has expired - ie on street parking if the permit holder only restriction is between 9 and 5.30 and there is a 2 hour maximum stay, post 5.30 you can park until 9am the following day with no repercussions so I assumed, as long as we paid until 6.30pm when parking charges were enforceable I would be ok to park there until the charges came back into operation the following morning.
I certainly don't have spare money in which to take the appeal further, and will chalk it off to experience and never park there again and warn others not to either. Having read reviews of the car park, it seems they have got quite a few people in the past on a technicality, and it's too snidey for me, catching people out. I accept I misread the sign, although would argue it isn't clear, but take full responsibility for not triple checking. I would also say, if we had taken the time to read all instructions at the car park in detail, we would have spent at least 20 minutes doing so and racked up a charge before we'd even managed to pay to park!
It is an invoice. They 'police' the Falcon car park at Falconwood as well as others. It is a parking charge notice not a penalty charge notice although they try to dress it up as such.
My advice is ignore it. You will get a debt recovery letter in due course from DRP I think then a red final one then an offer of a reduced payment. Ignore them all and you will then get a debt recovery letter from Zenith.
They are all departments of the same outfit and they rely on frightening people into paying. Eventually they give up.
I've had quite a few and not paid one. Best advice from me is just don't acknowledge them in any way.
Never had a ccj in my life and I'm in my sixties. I took my advice from a county court bailiff who was well aware of these vultures and the way they prey on people and deliberately give the impression that the issue is being escalated and on its way to court when it is merely a case of sending out a different letterhead. All the debt recovery companies are registered to Euro car parks and it is basically a legalised scam.
I have spent time and money in places that they police while being totally unaware of any car park controls or of the need to register your registration - nor has the need to do so been relayed by any member of staff so the first you know about it it is receipt of one of these so-called PCN's which they are not. They often state that you have exceeded the maximum stay allowed while conveniently failing to mention what that period is.
Parking regs and charges are a f*****g scam in the UK. From machines that don’t give change (never come across one that does) to crooks that masquerade as parking companies. A lot of the rules and regs are deliberately made as difficult as possible to understand and absolutely no leeway is given.
The government should be taking these charlatans to task but do f all apart from rake in fees paid to the DVLA to divulge our personal data.
I'd get in touch with the Toby Carvery as a business mate and just complain about it (Going so far as to say that if they refuse then you'll permanently take your custom else where), they'll soon get it rescinded for you
I did the same with Aldi and ParkingEye in Dartford - Sent them an email saying that they can either get the £50 from me or I'd never use Aldi for my shopping ever again, despite never actually shopping in there in the first place
The worst thing you can do regardless if they dont (I'd be very surprised) is pay it though as they'll win when they cant enforce it!!
You could easily just ignore it - Euro Car Parks are one of the weakest companies out there for this sort of thing and NEVER seriously I mean NEVER take people to court over these notices - I parked in one myself on a daily basis near my work for about six months, got about 10 notices through my post demanding money, offering a smaller payment each time saying that if I didnt pay up them the next time I'd be taken to court, only to receive a further letter reminding that I needed to pay up, after about six months the hassling did stop though and have never heard from them again
Thank you FA. I’ve contacted Toby Carvery as a business now, I’ll also go in to the restaurant as well over the next day or so.
Do you recommend appealing to Euro Car Parks if the Toby Carvery doesn’t do anything themselves? Or just ignore the letters completely as they’re not going to do anything or enforce anything?
Depends if Euro Car parks own the car park. Mostly these companies are just collecting agents and your debt is to the car park owners - Toby Carvery?
The owner, whoever it is, can tell the agent whether to pursue a debt or not. If Euro Car Parks are not the owners they have no authority to cancel the charge except in line with procedures given to them by the car park owners.
Send them a letter asking for the serial number of all pieces of electronic equipment they have used in the entire process. With photographs as evidence. Give them seven days to reply.
along with respective calibration certificates
Might sound stupid, but what will this achieve, I don’t particularly understand?
It makes you feel like Petrocelli for a bit.
Now you're showing your age! Saturday nights, BBC1, loved it, great programme. He never did finish building that house did he?
Send them a letter asking for the serial number of all pieces of electronic equipment they have used in the entire process. With photographs as evidence. Give them seven days to reply.
along with respective calibration certificates
Might sound stupid, but what will this achieve, I don’t particularly understand?
It makes you feel like Petrocelli for a bit.
Now you're showing your age! Saturday nights, BBC1, loved it, great programme. He never did finish building that house did he?
I remember the programme being on during the week on Thursday I think, only because Wogan used to take the piss out of it the next day on his radio show.
I drove to Blackburn for the recent game and ended up getting a fine for bus lane violation close to the ground. Turns out its a notorious trap for drivers new to the area. 25,000 fines issued last year when introduced. No proper signage, no proper warning that you are approaching a bus lane until you can't avoid it. Its in a left hand fork in the road so out of view until you hit it when you've gone past the entry to the right hand carriageway. The stadium is in full view and it looks like the road to get there.
As it's one way and cars are prohibited it doesn't have the solid lines you normally see for a bus lane. You are supposed to interpret a No Left Turn sign 50 feet before the fork as having to take the right hand fork.
probably as its not public land you can deny you were driving a la the supermarket overstay, they cannot oblige you to identify the driver, I posted on this recently and was successful
I drove to Blackburn for the recent game and ended up getting a fine for bus lane violation close to the ground. Turns out its a notorious trap for drivers new to the area. 25,000 fines issued last year when introduced. No proper signage, no proper warning that you are approaching a bus lane until you can't avoid it. Its in a left hand fork in the road so out of view until you hit it when you've gone past the entry to the right hand carriageway. The stadium is in full view and it looks like the road to get there.
As it's one way and cars are prohibited it doesn't have the solid lines you normally see for a bus lane. You are supposed to interpret a No Left Turn sign 50 feet before the fork as having to take the right hand fork.
probably as its not public land you can deny you were driving a la the supermarket overstay, they cannot oblige you to identify the driver, I posted on this recently and was successful
The law changed and makes the owner of the vehicle liable. Plus my husband can’t drive and I’m the only registered driver of my car which would make it difficult to appeal anyway!
When my son was with the Spurs academy a few years back, my wife got a fine and points for going through a red light near the training ground in Chigwell. A week later she got a letter rescinding the fine and points, saying the information gained from the camera has been shown not to be reliable or something to that effect.
You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out that a few Spurs players must have been caught out, and they have the dosh to employ expert legal people to get them off. And then everybody else has to be let off too. So the moral of this story is, if you want to avoid these things, live near rich people.
Just wanted to update the thread in case anyone was wondering the outcome.
After contacting the Toby Carvery yesterday, I have received an email first thing this morning informing me they will cancel the parking charge notice, but only on this occasion.
They said there are signs on the way in to the car park (which as a driver, you’re not going to stop and read a sign when you’re driving, signs which are often small. I need to concentrate on the road and the fact that it’s a car park, therefore likely to have people walking in it).
I said that I wouldn’t be returning to the restaurant and that as how it happened, their staff and service were responsible for being unable to even enter the building.
The response back to me was a little sarcastic but it seems to have worked.
So thanks again for all the advice and this is a lesson learned for me and for anyone either going into that Toby Carvery in future, or anywhere else.
Disgusting but I really don’t find it unbelievable anymore. Without going too much off topic, someone very close to me died from cancer a few years back and they had a council tax bill outstanding from when they were in hospital and later a hospice. Their council kept sending letters until they were going to send bailiffs out, even though they had received a death certificate, they turned their attention to the next of kin. Eventually they went away but they really don’t care, so many people, not just in this country, are awful human beings.
probably as its not public land you can deny you were driving a la the supermarket overstay, they cannot oblige you to identify the driver, I posted on this recently and was successful
The law changed and makes the owner of the vehicle liable. Plus my husband can’t drive and I’m the only registered driver of my car which would make it difficult to appeal anyway!
not sure thats true, but if it is the coop didnt know, so its worth a try. It doesn't have to be your husband driving anyone can drive your car..
looks like you're right, still worth reading all that advice tho re private tickets
although this is the one I followed in July (I see its been updated in August) which contradicts that specifically concerning private tickets and driver vs owner
Just read through that. It seems all the council are asking for is a copy of the death certificate and then the ticket will be cancelled, which I don't think is unreasonable.
When my son was with the Spurs academy a few years back, my wife got a fine and points for going through a red light near the training ground in Chigwell. A week later she got a letter rescinding the fine and points, saying the information gained from the camera has been shown not to be reliable or something to that effect.
You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out that a few Spurs players must have been caught out, and they have the dosh to employ expert legal people to get them off. And then everybody else has to be let off too. So the moral of this story is, if you want to avoid these things, live near rich people.
Comments
Do you recommend appealing to Euro Car Parks if the Toby Carvery doesn’t do anything themselves? Or just ignore the letters completely as they’re not going to do anything or enforce anything?
Btw. Why do they need to register who is using the car park. Is thus the carvery opposite the leisure centre & near the park...?? Why would you want to park there if you werent using the pub...?? Surely not for the train station.
You could use one of them but in my experience with them I didnt bother (although that was because I didnt feel as though I had a decent excuse to appeal in the first place)
Maybe wait and see what the Toby come back to you with (provided its within a day or two) before putting any further appeals in with ECP etc.
Whilst Euro Car Parks cannot enforce the fine directly, they can use a 3rd party to enforce so do not ignore it. In addition, they appear to have followed the rules and regs on this and would be considered to be in the right.
Euro Car Parks will be enforcing the car park for free on the basis they collect all the fine money. In addition they have to pay to send the fine to you as there is a DVLA charge to get your details from the number plate so will probably not just let it go so the appeal would only serve to extend your time.
Call the pub and explain, they will be able to wave the fine on your behalf by contacting the enforcement company. If they were not allowing access to the machine, the fault is theirs so you can easily push that argument.
You have 10 minutes grace (some car parks offer longer) when you enter any UK car park to determine if you want to park there and pay for your ticket/register your car, so you are only outside that by a minute. I use this to my advantage, knowing an attendant or company has to prove I parked for 10 minutes means I never pay for any parking when I categorically know I will be there for less than that time period.
On Cricket World Cup final day we watched the 1st innings at home, before driving to Greenwich to watch the 2nd innings with friends. We drove into the car park in the high street where the Salisbury's is, parked up - read the notice, rang and registered and paid £10 for 4 hours parking (to take us past the 6.30pm cut off by 45 minutes as it was 3.15pm). Received the confirmation text and entered my reg details etc. Sorted.
We watched the match, celebrated afterwards and I left the boys to the after party celebrations leaving the car park after a sainsbury's shop at 9.15pm ish.
Two and a half weeks later I received a Parking Charge Notice to say I overstayed. You can't ring them, you can't email them, you can appeal online to which they reply by post. In their defense the fines are issued automatically due to the vehicle recognition cameras on the entrance and exit. And whilst appealing the fine is paused so you still only have to pay the 'reduced' amount. My appeal was rejected so I reluctantly paid the £60 on Monday. I appealed as I'd paid up to the 6.30pm cut off time, but although they didn't explicitly state it in the fine or the letter, I do recall at the parking site there was a '4 hours maximum stay'.
I thought that once the 'restricted time' has expired - ie on street parking if the permit holder only restriction is between 9 and 5.30 and there is a 2 hour maximum stay, post 5.30 you can park until 9am the following day with no repercussions so I assumed, as long as we paid until 6.30pm when parking charges were enforceable I would be ok to park there until the charges came back into operation the following morning.
I certainly don't have spare money in which to take the appeal further, and will chalk it off to experience and never park there again and warn others not to either. Having read reviews of the car park, it seems they have got quite a few people in the past on a technicality, and it's too snidey for me, catching people out. I accept I misread the sign, although would argue it isn't clear, but take full responsibility for not triple checking. I would also say, if we had taken the time to read all instructions at the car park in detail, we would have spent at least 20 minutes doing so and racked up a charge before we'd even managed to pay to park!
I would speak to the pub management.
The government should be taking these charlatans to task but do f all apart from rake in fees paid to the DVLA to divulge our personal data.
The owner, whoever it is, can tell the agent whether to pursue a debt or not. If Euro Car Parks are not the owners they have no authority to cancel the charge except in line with procedures given to them by the car park owners.
Now you're showing your age! Saturday nights, BBC1, loved it, great programme. He never did finish building that house did he?
As it's one way and cars are prohibited it doesn't have the solid lines you normally see for a bus lane. You are supposed to interpret a No Left Turn sign 50 feet before the fork as having to take the right hand fork.
Absolute legalised mugging.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/comment/3599888#Comment_3599888
You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work out that a few Spurs players must have been caught out, and they have the dosh to employ expert legal people to get them off. And then everybody else has to be let off too. So the moral of this story is, if you want to avoid these things, live near rich people.
After contacting the Toby Carvery yesterday, I have received an email first thing this morning informing me they will cancel the parking charge notice, but only on this occasion.
They said there are signs on the way in to the car park (which as a driver, you’re not going to stop and read a sign when you’re driving, signs which are often small. I need to concentrate on the road and the fact that it’s a car park, therefore likely to have people walking in it).
I said that I wouldn’t be returning to the restaurant and that as how it happened, their staff and service were responsible for being unable to even enter the building.
The response back to me was a little sarcastic but it seems to have worked.
So thanks again for all the advice and this is a lesson learned for me and for anyone either going into that Toby Carvery in future, or anywhere else.
Like this story I heard on the radio this morning
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-hounded-over-parking-ticket-18931361
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets/
looks like you're right, still worth reading all that advice tho re private tickets
although this is the one I followed in July (I see its been updated in August) which contradicts that specifically concerning private tickets and driver vs owner
http://www.complaintexpert.co.uk/complaining-about-private-parking-ticket.html