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Road Accident Deaths Involving the Police
Comments
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I mean it. We could have a UK-wide policy where police can randomly stop everyone. Anyone who gets out and legs it can be attacked by whatever bit of ammo the local police are allowed, AK47s, tazers, pepper spray, bb guns, truncheons, lassos, or just cutting witticisms and put-downs.Chizz said:
Don't bother with that. Just get a universal button for all police. Hit it once and every car in the country immediately stops.Dazzler21 said:
How would you isolate the signal so you don't dangerously cut out the engines of other cars?HardyAddick said:Cars should have an engine cut-out device fitted which the police can activate if a driver decides not to stop.
It would be a bit like a nation-wide version of musical statues. Only where there's no music. And the losers get locked up.0 -
Stand as a local MP. Im sure you would get plenty of votes with that as a manifesto.Chizz said:
I mean it. We could have a UK-wide policy where police can randomly stop everyone. Anyone who gets out and legs it can be attacked by whatever bit of ammo the local police are allowed, AK47s, tazers, pepper spray, bb guns, truncheons, lassos, or just cutting witticisms and put-downs.Chizz said:
Don't bother with that. Just get a universal button for all police. Hit it once and every car in the country immediately stops.Dazzler21 said:
How would you isolate the signal so you don't dangerously cut out the engines of other cars?HardyAddick said:Cars should have an engine cut-out device fitted which the police can activate if a driver decides not to stop.
It would be a bit like a nation-wide version of musical statues. Only where there's no music. And the losers get locked up.
I mean it.1 -
You think most are traffic offences. That’s where you’re wrong. In order to chase a moped, you need an offence greater than just a traffic offence... or information regarding the vehicle as there’s a high level of risk involved. Criminals use cars. Burglars/drug dealers/murderers all use cars.iainment said:
Well that's all right then if you say so.RugbyAddick said:
I can assure you that you’re wrong.iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
I think the blame needs to be shifted from the police and the spotlight put on those who take it upon themselves to fail to stop.6 -
Yes. But at the same time, the police should know when to stop a pursuit. In the case that I highlighted, the same vehicle had already driven away from them so dangerously that they abandoned a pursuit a week or two before. It was in a highly built up area with vehicles parked on both sides of the road. There were loads of pedestrians about (bus stops, shops and a railway station all just yards away). Unless this person was some sort of nutter going round shooting random people, it just wasn't worth the tragic loss of life. Imagine if it had been members of your family needlessly killedRugbyAddick said:
You think most are traffic offences. That’s where you’re wrong. In order to chase a moped, you need an offence greater than just a traffic offence... or information regarding the vehicle as there’s a high level of risk involved. Criminals use cars. Burglars/drug dealers/murderers all use cars.iainment said:
Well that's all right then if you say so.RugbyAddick said:
I can assure you that you’re wrong.iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
I think the blame needs to be shifted from the police and the spotlight put on those who take it upon themselves to fail to stop.
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Depends on the demographics. If they were black youths it would be a muted outcry for the most part.Lincsaddick said:if the cops were shooting dead 50 people a year there would be a national outcry
Edit - way too flippant I know.1 -
How do you decide what is a minor crime..........pray tell me?iainment said:Latest annual police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being pursued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.0 -
So you believe that because the Police had already witnessed the vehicle escape dangerously before, where the assailant would have already put lives at risk once, they should have let him escape again. Thus increasing the risk to other road users and pedestrians.foresthillred said:
Yes. But at the same time, the police should know when to stop a pursuit. In the case that I highlighted, the same vehicle had already driven away from them so dangerously that they abandoned a pursuit a week or two before. It was in a highly built up area with vehicles parked on both sides of the road. There were loads of pedestrians about (bus stops, shops and a railway station all just yards away). Unless this person was some sort of nutter going round shooting random people, it just wasn't worth the tragic loss of life. Imagine if it had been members of your family needlessly killedRugbyAddick said:
You think most are traffic offences. That’s where you’re wrong. In order to chase a moped, you need an offence greater than just a traffic offence... or information regarding the vehicle as there’s a high level of risk involved. Criminals use cars. Burglars/drug dealers/murderers all use cars.iainment said:
Well that's all right then if you say so.RugbyAddick said:
I can assure you that you’re wrong.iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
I think the blame needs to be shifted from the police and the spotlight put on those who take it upon themselves to fail to stop.
The Police would have been using sirens and lights to warn pedestrians and road users of their fast moving vehicle. There were parked vehicles to act as barriers between the road and the pedestrian footpaths...
It all sounds a bit safer of a time to follow the assailants vehicle than you want us to believe.
If there were no parked cars, the pedestrians would have been completely unprotected and arguably at higher risk and I'd expect the police to not chase in that scenario.
Do you know how fast/closely the police were following? Your comments seem to imply they were following/chasing but no speed of the police is provided.
Did they attempt to disable the car whilst in the highly bystander populated area? Not according to your comments, they seem to state the assailant lost control.
It seems what happened is the police officer activated their lights and sirens to notify the driver to pull over and act as a warning to the public. In seeing this the intoxicated driver attempted to escape the police by speeding away, possibly choosing the road with parked cars, believing them to be an obstacle to the police. As the driver was without proper skill and was intoxicated as they drove at speed they lost control and this resulted in tragic loss of life.
Was loss of life avoidable? Maybe. It's impossible to say whether the police could have stopped them earlier based on the info provided by you in several comments, but it was known that this driver drove dangerously, was potentially intoxicated and the driver should not have been on the road operating a vehicle. They let them get away once, you can't risk that happening multiple times or the public would berate lack of action.
I do believe there is a time and a place to chase and a time and place to use disabling manoeuvres.
Nothing in your story leads me to believe the police did anything wrong. The only thing I can say for certain is this loss of life is 100% the fault of the assailant. It is the law to abide by the highway code and it is the law to stop safely when signalled to do so by the police.
This driver was not abiding to the law or the highway code when they lost control. They killed these innocents. Their actions alone are accountable.1 -
I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.
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100% certain that'd be less than 1% of police chases... But it's simply an assumption.T_C_E said:I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.0 -
you have made a good point .. a minor offence like speeding, BUT, the driver has no tax, insurance, is banned, under age etc. so he (usually a he) takes off and a 'minor situation' can escalate into a potentially very dangerous high speed chaseT_C_E said:I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.
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But the Police don't make that decision, if I get caught speeding and accelerate away knowing the police will sit back and say ah well shit happens we'd be in a worse state than we are. Often the police stop cars with previous drug markers on them should they not do that? If the driver has only been to town to do a big shop rather collect a kg of Columbias finest marching what's he got to run from?Lincsaddick said:
you have made a good point .. a minor offence like speeding, BUT, the driver has no tax, insurance, is banned, under age etc. so he (usually a he) takes off and a 'minor situation' can escalate into a potentially very dangerous high speed chaseT_C_E said:I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.0 -
BUT, the police do make a decision to pursue or not don't they .. however of course, the Chief Constable might have made hot pursuit in every case the Constabulary policy .. and as for stopping your friendly local illegal pharmacist.. ideally when such a situation occurs, and this would be 'off the cuff' rather than a planned apprehension, the cops spotting the crim could radio for back up and (say) two police vehicles could box in the said crim preventing escape .. This of course presumes that there are other available units, and there are not just three OB cars patrolling the whole county, which, I am sure is sometimes the caseT_C_E said:
But the Police don't make that decision, if I get caught speeding and accelerate away knowing the police will sit back and say ah well shit happens we'd be in a worse state than we are. Often the police stop cars with previous drug markers on them should they not do that? If the driver has only been to town to do a big shop rather collect a kg of Columbias finest marching what's he got to run from?Lincsaddick said:
you have made a good point .. a minor offence like speeding, BUT, the driver has no tax, insurance, is banned, under age etc. so he (usually a he) takes off and a 'minor situation' can escalate into a potentially very dangerous high speed chaseT_C_E said:I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.
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T_C_E said:
But the Police don't make that decision, if I get caught speeding and accelerate away knowing the police will sit back and say ah well shit happens we'd be in a worse state than we are. Often the police stop cars with previous drug markers on them should they not do that? If the driver has only been to town to do a big shop rather collect a kg of Columbias finest marching what's he got to run from?Lincsaddick said:
you have made a good point .. a minor offence like speeding, BUT, the driver has no tax, insurance, is banned, under age etc. so he (usually a he) takes off and a 'minor situation' can escalate into a potentially very dangerous high speed chaseT_C_E said:I'd love to know how many people guilty of say breaking the speed limit and only that, take off from the police and end up being chased all over town?
I assume, if you pull over and everything else is in order you may get a bollocking or at worse a ticket which you can challenge through the proper channels.
There's normally an under lying reason they floor it.
In your case mate, a criminal dress sense3 -
major or minor, if a loved one were to die in such circumstances, one would be entitled to be VERY pissed off, and justifiably soSoundAsa£ said:
How do you decide what is a minor crime..........pray tell me?iainment said:Latest annual police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being pursued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
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