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Another Cladding Fire...
aliwibble
Posts: 26,290
Big cladding fire at a student accommodation block in Bolton. Luckily it sounds like no-one was hurt, but it seems as if many of the students have lost all their stuff. Will be interesting to hear what safety checks had been carried out on the building post-Grenfell.
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Unreal to think there are thousands of buildings with this type of cladding still.0
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If anyone had died - 'cheap' option would have been to blame the fire service - again!0
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Terrible. Thank God nobody died.
When will these twats remove that murderous stuff from buildings?
The one slight consolation is that if ever there was a 'good' time for a fire in student accommodation, Friday night is probably it as most students would be out on the p***0 -
Do we know what the primary race of the people was in there yet? Doreen Lawrence is on standby.2
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I think you should delete that post.6
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I know of one developer who spent over £30m before Grenfell to start putting things right.
there are thousands of properties with exposure
we did a job 7 years ago where we did a smoke test and managed to set the fire alarm in the building next door. When we investigated we found there was no fire stopping at all in a steel frame building. If one had a fire that would have come down. These were not cheap and cheerful properties either - these were £1m each
unfortunately many companies have gone to the wall now as they simply can’t get PI insurance. I know of a Company who were paying £20,000 per year / and then right after Grenfell it jumped to £200,000. People can’t pay that so there is nobody to do the remedial work anyway.
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My daughter is in uni digs (7th floor). Their fire procedure is to 'stay put' and if they need to evacuate they can use the lift (one lift; one stairwell). They're yet to have a drill but she plans to get the hell out if the alarm sounds.0
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Was this cladding never fire tested?0
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I've never heard of using a lift to evacuate. Usually a definite no.Red Riding Hoodie said:My daughter is in uni digs (7th floor). Their fire procedure is to 'stay put' and if they need to evacuate they can use the lift (one lift; one stairwell). They're yet to have a drill but she plans to get the hell out if the alarm sounds.
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Don't most lifts automatically shutdown in a fire scenario?
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The fire service have learnt much from Grenfell in terms of abandoning stay put advice and evacuation.MeebaumAzanitch said:If anyone had died - 'cheap' option would have been to blame the fire service - again!
The government have done nothing, zilch, nada! Tens of thousands still live in potential death traps and some are even being challenged to pay for the removal of defective, flammable cladding.
This might be too big a step for some, but the Government have done nothing because they are either incompetent or, more likely, they do not believe in intervention! Regulations and enforced compliance are simply not in their DNA since they believe the market will resolve such matters.
As for the comment above about the race and nationality of the students in Bolton, that just shows how a significant minority think. What's more scary is that this weekend there will be more coverage of Prince Andrew than this fire.0 -
Most cladding on high rise has been tested - but not much of the flammable stuff removed and replacedMcBobbin said:Was this cladding never fire tested?1 -
That was my thinking and she was certainly surprised.Baldybonce said:
I've never heard of using a lift to evacuate. Usually a definite no.Red Riding Hoodie said:My daughter is in uni digs (7th floor). Their fire procedure is to 'stay put' and if they need to evacuate they can use the lift (one lift; one stairwell). They're yet to have a drill but she plans to get the hell out if the alarm sounds.0 -
i work in student accommodation at Greenwich uni and we had a lot of checks in the month after Grenfell of our 3 buildings. Also i never heard of using lifts for evacuations ours all return to ground floor on sounding of our alarms. We test the alarms every week and do full evacuations every term in every building1
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So much wrong with your post @seriously_red.seriously_red said:
The fire service have learnt much from Grenfell in terms of abandoning stay put advice and evacuation.MeebaumAzanitch said:If anyone had died - 'cheap' option would have been to blame the fire service - again!
The government have done nothing, zilch, nada! Tens of thousands still live in potential death traps and some are even being challenged to pay for the removal of defective, flammable cladding.
This might be too big a step for some, but the Government have done nothing because they are either incompetent or, more likely, they do not believe in intervention! Regulations and enforced compliance are simply not in their DNA since they believe the market will resolve such matters.
As for the comment above about the race and nationality of the students in Bolton, that just shows how a significant minority think. What's more scary is that this weekend there will be more coverage of Prince Andrew than this fire.
Can you provide a link any Fire Authority has abandoned the stay put advice? https://www.nationalfirechiefs.org.uk/Stay-Put-position
Governement has provided £200m for ACM cladding replacement. Can you provide a link to any leaseholder who has been charged for cladding replacement? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-fund-and-speed-up-vital-cladding-replacement.
Government are quite rightly leaving it to the 'experts' to decide the best way forward before introducing new legislation.
Agree with your last paragraph.
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Again incorrect. Only ACM Cladding has been tested and only on all blocks of 10 stories or greater.seriously_red said:
Most cladding on high rise has been tested - but not much of the flammable stuff removed and replacedMcBobbin said:Was this cladding never fire tested?
My organisation had ACM cladding on four blocks - 2 of six stories and 2 of four stories (two in Coulsdon, one in Sydenham and one in Southampton. All have had the cladding removed and replaced at no cost to any leaseholders and outside any requirement from Government, Local Authorities or LFRS, our Primary Partner.
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A fireman's lift is a single lift that can be controlled normally with a key switch independently by firemen to either evacuate or to carry heavy equipment to the floor required, it will only be used if the fire service are confident that it is clear of the fire.Baldybonce said:
I've never heard of using a lift to evacuate. Usually a definite no.Red Riding Hoodie said:My daughter is in uni digs (7th floor). Their fire procedure is to 'stay put' and if they need to evacuate they can use the lift (one lift; one stairwell). They're yet to have a drill but she plans to get the hell out if the alarm sounds.
It is encased in its own sealed lift shaft, it has a separate and clean electricity supply a minimum of one hour fire protection in the shaft and its own separate motor room.
https://www.ukfrs.com/promos/16844
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Thanks.Addickted said:
A fireman's lift is a single lift that can be controlled normally with a key switch independently by firemen to either evacuate or to carry heavy equipment to the floor required, it will only be used if the fire service are confident that it is clear of the fire.Baldybonce said:
I've never heard of using a lift to evacuate. Usually a definite no.Red Riding Hoodie said:My daughter is in uni digs (7th floor). Their fire procedure is to 'stay put' and if they need to evacuate they can use the lift (one lift; one stairwell). They're yet to have a drill but she plans to get the hell out if the alarm sounds.
It is encased in its own sealed lift shaft, it has a separate and clean electricity supply a minimum of one hour fire protection in the shaft and its own separate motor room.
https://www.ukfrs.com/promos/16844
Never heard of that before.
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But I would assume this block didn't have a firefighting lift.
I suspect whoever got out using a lift shouldn't have used it. All lifts should have these on the outside.
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Addickted said:seriously_red said:[snip]
The government have done nothing, zilch, nada! Tens of thousands still live in potential death traps and some are even being challenged to pay for the removal of defective, flammable cladding.[snip]
Governement has provided £200m for ACM cladding replacement. Can you provide a link to any leaseholder who has been charged for cladding replacement? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-fund-and-speed-up-vital-cladding-replacement.
Government are quite rightly leaving it to the 'experts' to decide the best way forward before introducing new legislation.There's been at least one tribunal decision where the leaseholders have been ruled liable for the costs of removal, but I'm not sure whether the work's actually been carried out yet, so you might be technically right as they haven't been charged yet, but they are legally on the hook for the work.
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Overturned in March of this yearaliwibble said:Addickted said:seriously_red said:[snip]
The government have done nothing, zilch, nada! Tens of thousands still live in potential death traps and some are even being challenged to pay for the removal of defective, flammable cladding.[snip]
Governement has provided £200m for ACM cladding replacement. Can you provide a link to any leaseholder who has been charged for cladding replacement? https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-fund-and-speed-up-vital-cladding-replacement.
Government are quite rightly leaving it to the 'experts' to decide the best way forward before introducing new legislation.There's been at least one tribunal decision where the leaseholders have been ruled liable for the costs of removal, but I'm not sure whether the work's actually been carried out yet, so you might be technically right as they haven't been charged yet, but they are legally on the hook for the work.
A Lendlease spokesperson said: “We can confirm residents will not need to pay for the costs of replacement cladding. The process, which has involved multiple companies, has taken longer than anyone would have liked, and we regret how unsettling it has been for residents.”
https://www.ctbuh.org/news/constructor-freeholder-liable-for-replacing-cladding-at-manchesters-green-quarter/
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Oh excellent! I'm not sure whether I missed that because it just didn't get the coverage of the original decision, or because I was up to my eyes in other stuff in March.
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aliwibble said:Oh excellent! I'm not sure whether I missed that because it just didn't get the coverage of the original decision, or because I was up to my eyes in other stuff in March.
I think it's more the fact that it's been a massive part of my life since Grenfell!
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I have no words.
Actually I do but if I said what I really mean I'd probably get banned1 -
Not down to the government to do safety checks. That responsibility falls solely at the local authority building control dept.seriously_red said:
The fire service have learnt much from Grenfell in terms of abandoning stay put advice and evacuation.MeebaumAzanitch said:If anyone had died - 'cheap' option would have been to blame the fire service - again!
The government have done nothing, zilch, nada! Tens of thousands still live in potential death traps and some are even being challenged to pay for the removal of defective, flammable cladding.
This might be too big a step for some, but the Government have done nothing because they are either incompetent or, more likely, they do not believe in intervention! Regulations and enforced compliance are simply not in their DNA since they believe the market will resolve such matters.
As for the comment above about the race and nationality of the students in Bolton, that just shows how a significant minority think. What's more scary is that this weekend there will be more coverage of Prince Andrew than this fire.2 -
Thanks to others for clarifying that leaseholders were challenged to pay
the government are surely responsible for the overall approach, as well as response to previous tragedies.
Although this is before the second phase of the Grenfell inquiry, it appears that the inspection regime is both fractured and also exposed to a large amount of self certification. In other words, a joined up approach to this and other matters will help in making matters safer and better.
Beyond this I can't comment on the specifics of either this latest incident nor the overall safety framework so will bow out, thankful that there were no fatalities. Over time it will become more clear as to what the fire brigade have changed since Grenfell and fully accept that if my assertion above is materially inaccurate then one should amend / withdraw.0 -
Building Control undertake all safety checks, not the government.seriously_red said:Thanks to others for clarifying that leaseholders were challenged to pay
the government are surely responsible for the overall approach, as well as response to previous tragedies.
Although this is before the second phase of the Grenfell inquiry, it appears that the inspection regime is both fractured and also exposed to a large amount of self certification. In other words, a joined up approach to this and other matters will help in making matters safer and better.
Beyond this I can't comment on the specifics of either this latest incident nor the overall safety framework so will bow out, thankful that there were no fatalities. Over time it will become more clear as to what the fire brigade have changed since Grenfell and fully accept that if my assertion above is materially inaccurate then one should amend / withdraw.
All local authorities, no matter who runs them operate the same way.
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