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Protest Fund - Closure Announcement (Final Report on Page 3)
Comments
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At that time you were looking long term and were not to know how far the money would need to stretch so decisions were presumably made on that basis and what would be most effective?cantersaddick said:Come on mate. Leave it.
There was a process all along that was fair to everyone. Pitch ideas for protests and the fund would choose whether or not to fund it.
If they didnt get approval or didnt ask for it then they went into it knowing full well that they were paying their own way.
I agree that that they did what they did with their eyes wide open, but it is all over now so maybe you have the opportunity to review those decisions and reconsider.
Surely that is the correct thing to do? The money was given in good faith for it to be spent on protest activities. How do you justify giving it away when fans are out of pocket?
I believe you have a duty to spend it for the purpose it was donated for, and I really don’t understand why you would not want to do that.
I hear that that was a pitch that was agreed while they were with you, and then later withdrawn. Is that true? If so, what intervention changed that decision?
From the outside it sounds like personality clashes affected decisions, which often happen when you have committees, but a higher morality must override this.
So come on mate, please explain why you think that they should remain massively out of pocket?0 -
Second the idea to donate it to another protesting club... 1) It'll help them achieve what we finally have and 2) I think it'd make the tabloids and be extremely good press for us if there is a decent wedge involved, it'll also help keep the protests in the news for them7
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I was the person who coined the name "Belgian 20", I went to Belgian on the taxi trip, I travelled to protests away from the Valley, i donated money to ROT and also collected money when giving out black and white scarves. I'm "out of pocket" but I'm not asking for any of my expenses to be reimbursed. I never expected to get that money back from anyone, it was my choice and I did it happily and would do so again.Redrobo said:
At that time you were looking long term and were not to know how far the money would need to stretch so decisions were presumably made on that basis and what would be most effective?cantersaddick said:Come on mate. Leave it.
There was a process all along that was fair to everyone. Pitch ideas for protests and the fund would choose whether or not to fund it.
If they didnt get approval or didnt ask for it then they went into it knowing full well that they were paying their own way.
I agree that that they did what they did with their eyes wide open, but it is all over now so maybe you have the opportunity to review those decisions and reconsider.
Surely that is the correct thing to do? The money was given in good faith for it to be spent on protest activities. How do you justify giving it away when fans are out of pocket?
I believe you have a duty to spend it for the purpose it was donated for, and I really don’t understand why you would not want to do that.
I hear that that was a pitch that was agreed while they were with you, and then later withdrawn. Is that true? If so, what intervention changed that decision?
From the outside it sounds like personality clashes affected decisions, which often happen when you have committees, but a higher morality must override this.
So come on mate, please explain why you think that they should remain massively out of pocket?
If any of the ROT or B20 activities didn't get funding from the protest fund then they knew that in advance. They still went ahead and made the trips and spent the money knowing that (and well done them).
No one was conned or ripped off, no one was given a false impression about being paid out some time later.
If you feel they should be paid out then feel free to do so with your own money. At present you are just giving more ammunition to those few sad fans who hated CARD and the fund and who will no doubt complain about whatever decision is made despite them themselves never having donated a penny or lifted a single finger to oust Duchatelet.
As to what happens to the remainder of the fund that is down to AD and BS to decide. I like the idea of giving to other club's protest funds but I can also see the merit of supporting Charlton causes. The latter was also the original stated destination of any remaining monies so again we all knew that we when donated or collected funds.14 -
Sheesh. I am with Henry on this, nearly all 'activists' are not only 'out of pocket' but also donated to the fund on top.
As well as two trips to Belgium I spent money on materials, the protest shirt, a banner for the march and so on. If our collective effort now means a deserving charity gets the balance I'm all for it.
Maybe it could be used for the memorial space at Sparrows Lane and those areas at the Valley too.6 -
Hundreds went to Belgium, myself included, all at personal expense. None more important than any others. Let's do the right thing and give what's left to charity rather than all claim three quid each.Redrobo said:Only two likes to recompense fans who have spent hundreds, in some cases £1ks travelling to Belgium to protest and make Roland as uncomfortable as possible; week after week after week in some cases.
Disappointing.
CARD know who they are. They know what they did and what they achieved. They may not have agreed the tactics. They may not have liked the methods. But we all know what they achieved.
Not to make the gesture leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All well and good slapping backs etc, but debts have to be paid.
CARD did not even financially fully help R.O.T. Come on chaps. Play the game.
The money was given to fight for the cause. There is a moral duty to spend it in a manor that those giving intended it to be spent.6 -
whatever the two "custodians of the cash " decide im sure it will be the correct choice(s)7
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My view is the money should be spent on the club, maybe museum. I do not like the idea of charity and ask new owners to match it. Appears to me like we are already telling owners what to do.
maybe just give to the club, it’s a small amount but a gesture that we are in this together.0 -
I dont recall any promise that was broken about costs being reimbursed and I went on the Taxi and unity marches.
That said the protest funds and CARD were wholly independent so CARD wouldnt have a say in where the protest fund was spent.
My understanding was that you applied for funding if you had a protest idea.
As for RoT I know that both Alan and myself were fully paid up members from the outset so again, I am unsure where that suggestion came from.
Lastly, I dont understand where the 'back slapping' comes from?
The ink is not dry on the sales contract yet, everyone is ecstatic at the idea that RD has gone, to start recriminations already about who said/what said/who did what smacks of the Judean Peoples Front. I am just a bit confused by why you feel so strongly about this?
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Just from a personal point of view, I chose a few times not to agree to a request from CARD for funds as I was a worried about the repercussions to me personally. If I thought they were slightly illegal, I held the money and I paid the bills and i didn't want any come back whatsoever on me. I have a job with a law firm and I didn't want to lose it. I cant remember the exact details but I think I said no to some Belgium requests because I was nervous about the actual legal repercussions. Davo has a better memory on this than me.
In hindsight, someone retired or mortgage free should have held the funds, then they could have been a bit braver with the money.
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DisagreeCurb_It said:Just from a personal point of view, I chose a few times not to agree to a request from CARD for funds as I was a worried about the repercussions to me personally. If I thought they were slightly illegal, I held the money and I paid the bills and i didn't want any come back whatsoever on me. I have a job with a law firm and I didn't want to lose it. I cant remember the exact details but I think I said no to some Belgium requests because I was nervous about the actual legal repercussions. Davo has a better memory on this than me.
In hindsight, someone retired or mortgage free should have held the funds, then they could have been a bit braver with the money.
Your caution was what made you ideal for the role. Anyone can say yes all the time, much harder to say no.
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Both you and Davo did a great job here in focusing the urge Charlton fans had to support the cause and for administering it sensibly and openly. Shame on those cynics who assumed any of it was being spent inappropriately (because that thought clearly came to them).6
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Actually I think that meant it funded activities that were both creative and legal. I'm not sure the protest fund should ever have funded illegal activities.Curb_It said:Just from a personal point of view, I chose a few times not to agree to a request from CARD for funds as I was a worried about the repercussions to me personally. If I thought they were slightly illegal, I held the money and I paid the bills and i didn't want any come back whatsoever on me. I have a job with a law firm and I didn't want to lose it. I cant remember the exact details but I think I said no to some Belgium requests because I was nervous about the actual legal repercussions. Davo has a better memory on this than me.
In hindsight, someone retired or mortgage free should have held the funds, then they could have been a bit braver with the money.
I really don't see the issue here btw. Like many others I've received no funding from the protest fund and am out of pocket, but I proceeded knowing I could apply to the fund and would have a decision before I determined to spend the money. On that basis, like everyone else, I spent my money knowing it was sunk funds with no opportunity for recovery.
Many people are out of pocket, but that's life - its not for the protest fund to determine who's most worthy of some cash after the event. There are literally thousands of people to consider with expenditure from banners to travel costs. The rules of the fund were clear and fairly applied throughout. To my knowledge all groups and many individual efforts received funding, all major groups had requests turned down too. No-one was forced to make that expenditure, no-one did so with any indication they would be refunded at the end of the campaign if the fund hadn't approved it up front.
Hopefully now it's over, and the little that remains can go to something we can all appreciate.10 -
I withdraw. Happy for you to spend the remaining monies in anyway you feel appropriate.3
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How much money do you want ?Redrobo said:
At that time you were looking long term and were not to know how far the money would need to stretch so decisions were presumably made on that basis and what would be most effective?cantersaddick said:Come on mate. Leave it.
There was a process all along that was fair to everyone. Pitch ideas for protests and the fund would choose whether or not to fund it.
If they didnt get approval or didnt ask for it then they went into it knowing full well that they were paying their own way.
I agree that that they did what they did with their eyes wide open, but it is all over now so maybe you have the opportunity to review those decisions and reconsider.
Surely that is the correct thing to do? The money was given in good faith for it to be spent on protest activities. How do you justify giving it away when fans are out of pocket?
I believe you have a duty to spend it for the purpose it was donated for, and I really don’t understand why you would not want to do that.
I hear that that was a pitch that was agreed while they were with you, and then later withdrawn. Is that true? If so, what intervention changed that decision?
From the outside it sounds like personality clashes affected decisions, which often happen when you have committees, but a higher morality must override this.
So come on mate, please explain why you think that they should remain massively out of pocket?0 -
Thank you CARD. There is no doubt the efforts led to his departure.
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I’m still bitter that you turned down my request that we hire a hitman!Curb_It said:Just from a personal point of view, I chose a few times not to agree to a request from CARD for funds as I was a worried about the repercussions to me personally. If I thought they were slightly illegal, I held the money and I paid the bills and i didn't want any come back whatsoever on me. I have a job with a law firm and I didn't want to lose it. I cant remember the exact details but I think I said no to some Belgium requests because I was nervous about the actual legal repercussions. Davo has a better memory on this than me.
In hindsight, someone retired or mortgage free should have held the funds, then they could have been a bit braver with the money.7 -
Is helping Bury an option?6
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I reckon I've been forced to spend at least £400 at the Wilderen Brewery in St Truiden, but it's a sacrifice that doesn't need to be acknowledged.12
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Me? Not a penny.Covered End said:
How much money do you want ?Redrobo said:
At that time you were looking long term and were not to know how far the money would need to stretch so decisions were presumably made on that basis and what would be most effective?cantersaddick said:Come on mate. Leave it.
There was a process all along that was fair to everyone. Pitch ideas for protests and the fund would choose whether or not to fund it.
If they didnt get approval or didnt ask for it then they went into it knowing full well that they were paying their own way.
I agree that that they did what they did with their eyes wide open, but it is all over now so maybe you have the opportunity to review those decisions and reconsider.
Surely that is the correct thing to do? The money was given in good faith for it to be spent on protest activities. How do you justify giving it away when fans are out of pocket?
I believe you have a duty to spend it for the purpose it was donated for, and I really don’t understand why you would not want to do that.
I hear that that was a pitch that was agreed while they were with you, and then later withdrawn. Is that true? If so, what intervention changed that decision?
From the outside it sounds like personality clashes affected decisions, which often happen when you have committees, but a higher morality must override this.
So come on mate, please explain why you think that they should remain massively out of pocket?
Shocked at how much some spent and how little funded.
That’s all. End of. Moving on now.0 -
It was a huge sacrifice but I was glad we took it together. Each round of beers, each plate of food, no one knows the pain we suffered. As for the Gin Ice Cream and those waitresses.....Addickted said:I reckon I've been forced to spend at least £400 at the Wilderen Brewery in St Truiden, but it's a sacrifice that doesn't need to be acknowledged.1 - Sponsored links:
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If people expected to have time and money compensated they should have got that in writing before it happened. I'm sure many more people would have gone if it was a paid trip, but it wasnt.. so they didnt0
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Sorry @Redrobo, you cannot say this,
Shocked at how much some spent and how little funded.
And then move on, what are you suggesting? From my limited experience of the protest fund (I had a few ideas rightly turned down), every penny counted, nothing was wasted and certainly not spent on 'expenses' or underhand, maybe I am misreading your post in which case I apologise, but to suggest that those that managed the protest fund, again, independently of CARD anything other than transparently is wholly incorrect.0 -
Very well done boys n girls, your contribution to the club's new future is undeniable.
Demelza, CACT, The Upbeats, the blind team, all perfectly appropriate beneficiaries for the residual profits.
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A reminder:
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/70620/proposed-charlton-fans-protest-fund-your-views-please/p1
Relevant Bit:
* any money donated but not spent for whatever reason would go the Upbeats.
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Absolutely gets my vote too, and for another reason:CAFCsayer said:Second the idea to donate it to another protesting club... 1) It'll help them achieve what we finally have and 2) I think it'd make the tabloids and be extremely good press for us if there is a decent wedge involved, it'll also help keep the protests in the news for them
In the Fan Activist world, we already had a legendary name from 30 years ago, and when CARD emerged everyone else was in awe of the fact that we built and held together a Coalition of fan groups. Fortunately they don't get to see threads like this:-)
Other fan groups look to us for inspiration. What could be more inspiring than that we donate some money - and some hope and inspiration - to another group of fans who right now are in their darkest hour.
But having said that @Davo55 and @Curb_It deserve our thanks and our admiration for the way they have managed this seriously tricky task. Whatever they decide will be with the same thoughtfulness and class they brought to the custody of the Fund.11 -
I'm sure he means individuals spent large amounts of personal monies to make the trips etc to Belgium and it was mainly self funded without help from the Protest FundSE7toSG3 said:Sorry @Redrobo, you cannot say this,
Shocked at how much some spent and how little funded.
And then move on, what are you suggesting? From my limited experience of the protest fund (I had a few ideas rightly turned down), every penny counted, nothing was wasted and certainly not spent on 'expenses' or underhand, maybe I am misreading your post in which case I apologise, but to suggest that those that managed the protest fund, again, independently of CARD anything other than transparently is wholly incorrect.1 -
This was set out at the start and I see no good reason to change it.LenGlover said:A reminder:
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/70620/proposed-charlton-fans-protest-fund-your-views-please/p1
Relevant Bit:
* any money donated but not spent for whatever reason would go the Upbeats.1 -
If this was stated at the start then it should be the destination of the remaining balance. it is the perfect destination really, being a combination of a charity and charlton related causes. Up the UpbeatsCovered End said:
This was set out at the start and I see no good reason to change it.LenGlover said:A reminder:
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/70620/proposed-charlton-fans-protest-fund-your-views-please/p1
Relevant Bit:
* any money donated but not spent for whatever reason would go the Upbeats.
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I know we did say that initially but we probably thought there would be about 200 quid left in it, if even that? It would be good to share the love I believe.LenGlover said:A reminder:
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/70620/proposed-charlton-fans-protest-fund-your-views-please/p1
Relevant Bit:
* any money donated but not spent for whatever reason would go the Upbeats.
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