I remember one my grandfather's friends, a man called Clifford, being featured on the beeb's rememberance day coverage some year's back as one of the last 3 survivors of the Leeds Pals. The Leeds Pals were one of those regiments virtually wiped out in that one morning 91 years ago.
For anyone who hasn't read it can I recommend a book called "Last Post" by Max Arthur, published in 2005. It contains interviews with the last 21 surviving british servicemen from WWI. The research for the book began i late 2004. The youngest was 104. By the time the book was published only 4 survived.
I read this book on the beach in St. Lucia last year. My "girlfriend", who by no stretch of the imagination is a history buff, absolutely lapped it up as well.
He was wounded and captured but survived.
He told the story of how he was tied to a tree and spat at by a German soldier.
He said it didn't hurt as much as the bullet.
And on the numerous terrestial and satellite tv stations not one programme televised on the subject on 1st July 2007. The focus appears to be Diana Princess of Wales.
[cite]Posted By: Imissthepeanutman[/cite]And on the numerous terrestial and satellite tv stations not one programme televised on the subject on 1st July 2007. The focus appears to be Diana Princess of Wales.
[cite]Posted By: Oggy Red[/cite]My Grandad Sam fought at the Battle of the Somme.
He was wounded and captured but survived.
He told the story of how he was tied to a tree and spat at by a German soldier.
He said it didn't hurt as much as the bullet.
Blimey Oggy?! How did he survive being captured if you don;t mind me asking? Tied to a tree sounds pretty final to me!
1st and 2nd World War really does fascinate me in a non sadistic kind of way
I've always found WW1 a fascinating study. I am always stunned by the, on the surface, sheer ineptitude of some of the tactics employed during the major battles. The Somme being one of them.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]why "girlfriend" dare we ask?
Thiepval has all the names of those who were lost at the Somme but there were no bodies to bury, nearly 73,000 names on it. the Last Post being played at the Menin Gate was a real choker too. there were some old canadian soldiers there who were crying.
[cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite] I've always found WW1 a fascinating study. I am always stunned by the, on the surface, sheer ineptitude of some of the tactics employed during the major battles. The Somme being one of them.
[/quote]
The apparent reason for the orders to walk slowly towards the enemy was that someone thought that with so many inexperienced troops it would be unsafe to ask or allow them to run.
And of course on this occasion (as opposed to all the other previous occasions) the artillery barrage was going to do it's job and there would be very little resistance. The failure to learn the lessons of history seems to be the thing that stands out most about the first world war. If we had we might have realised that military tactics and technology had advanced barely at all since the american civil war (with the possible exception of aircraft for artillery spotting) and just sat around in trenches making ourselves as comfortable as possible under the circumstances and awaiting the emergence of the tank.
I recently tracked down a relative who was killed in July 1914 near Ypres. Visited his grave. Very moving to read the ages of all the lads killed. Just a couple of generations past....could have been us ! Be thankful I rekon.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]
Blimey Oggy?! How did he survive being captured if you don;t mind me asking? Tied to a tree sounds pretty final to me!
1st and 2nd World War really does fascinate me in a non sadistic kind of way
I'm not sure, West Side, I was only a kid when I was told so it's all a bit vague- but apparently a number of them were outflanked or cut off and captured.
I can't check facts because he's been not been around for nearly 40 years.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]I recently tracked down a relative who was killed in July 1914 near Ypres. Visited his grave. Very moving to read the ages of all the lads killed. Just a couple of generations past....could have been us ! Be thankful I rekon.
Must have been unlucky as WWI didn't start until August 1914.
Sorry, not making fun of your relative. Recently visited Mons were the first and last shots of the war were fired and the graves of the first and last British and Commonwealth solidiers killed in WWI
[cite]Posted By: HugoZHackenbush[/cite]
And of course on this occasion (as opposed to all the other previous occasions) the artillery barrage was going to do it's job and there would be very little resistance. The failure to learn the lessons of history seems to be the thing that stands out most about the first world war. If we had we might have realised that military tactics and technology had advanced barely at all since the american civil war (with the possible exception of aircraft for artillery spotting) and just sat around in trenches making ourselves as comfortable as possible under the circumstances and awaiting the emergence of the tank.
This is true for 1916 but by 1918 the British had worked out how to co-ordinate artillery and infantry with tanks and aircraft and so were able to advance non-stop for 3 months and roll the Germans back and beyond the Hindenburg Line, albeit at a even higher rate of loss than on the Somme.
Unfortunately the only people who remembered this co-ordination and developed it were the Germans. They called it Blitzkrieg.
This is true for 1916 but by 1918 the British had worked out how to co-ordinate artillery
.................
Actually the Canadians thought of it and first used it (at Vimy Ridge in 1917), Haig merely borrowed the idea. Had that clown used it at the Somme rather than the tactics of a long barrage (mostly with more-or-less useless shrapnel rather than concussive shells) followed up by then walking very slowly in straight lines directly into murderous gunfire it would have saved thousands of lives and shortened the war considerably.
The rolling barrage thing though was just one aspect, better communication between units and specifically between the artillery and infantry also helped considerably, again the Canadians were responsible for that, with fewer troops on the ground they realised that using them intelligently would be the best way to preserve them and attain their military objectives.
The Canadians implemented the Vimy Ridge attack but the staff that organised and provided the training and planning were British and indeed the overall plan was of course approved by Douglas Haig. Also a number of British Infantry were also involved in the 9th April 1917 attacks. I wish to take nothing away from the Canadians and the losses they suffered but the whole offensive was an Allied affair and in that of course a diversion from the soon to be implemented Nivelle Offensive which was a massive failure both strategically and in terms of lives lost and was to lead to France being sidelined for the remainder of 1917.
Haig is a man who appears to be either loathed or respected. Given the enormity of the task and the huge resources rallied against him plus the complexities of the political and strategic Alliance at home and abroad it was a remarkable achievement to achieve a victory over Germany and the Central Powers. And if you look at the casualty figures for France,Germany and Russia you will see that actually the British were generally more protective of their men. But what a price for all nations!
My grandfather got a "blighty" wound on the Somme, recovered and was sent back only to be invalided out from "shell shock. He rarely talked about his experiences other than the amusing stuff. After the war he continued to suffer from nightmares for the rest of his life. These days he would have a personal counsellor for his "post traumatic stress disorder". Back then men returned to civvy street and just had to get on with their life with no support. These men were incredibly brave and we must never forget them. "Lions led be donkeys".
My favourite short poem of the period by Siegfied Sassoon is "The General"
‘GOOD-MORNING; good-morning!’ the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack. . . . .
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.
It should be compulsory for all citizens to spend at least one day of their lives at the Imperial War Museum in Southwark - a sobering and humbling experience.
Comments
For anyone who hasn't read it can I recommend a book called "Last Post" by Max Arthur, published in 2005. It contains interviews with the last 21 surviving british servicemen from WWI. The research for the book began i late 2004. The youngest was 104. By the time the book was published only 4 survived.
I read this book on the beach in St. Lucia last year. My "girlfriend", who by no stretch of the imagination is a history buff, absolutely lapped it up as well.
He was wounded and captured but survived.
He told the story of how he was tied to a tree and spat at by a German soldier.
He said it didn't hurt as much as the bullet.
R.I.P
Lest we forget.
Very true!!
1st and 2nd World War really does fascinate me in a non sadistic kind of way
Thiepval has all the names of those who were lost at the Somme but there were no bodies to bury, nearly 73,000 names on it. the Last Post being played at the Menin Gate was a real choker too. there were some old canadian soldiers there who were crying.
Only because of her age Razil. I wasn't sure what the correct expression was.
The apparent reason for the orders to walk slowly towards the enemy was that someone thought that with so many inexperienced troops it would be unsafe to ask or allow them to run.
And of course on this occasion (as opposed to all the other previous occasions) the artillery barrage was going to do it's job and there would be very little resistance. The failure to learn the lessons of history seems to be the thing that stands out most about the first world war. If we had we might have realised that military tactics and technology had advanced barely at all since the american civil war (with the possible exception of aircraft for artillery spotting) and just sat around in trenches making ourselves as comfortable as possible under the circumstances and awaiting the emergence of the tank.
I'm not sure, West Side, I was only a kid when I was told so it's all a bit vague- but apparently a number of them were outflanked or cut off and captured.
I can't check facts because he's been not been around for nearly 40 years.
Must have been unlucky as WWI didn't start until August 1914.
Sorry, not making fun of your relative. Recently visited Mons were the first and last shots of the war were fired and the graves of the first and last British and Commonwealth solidiers killed in WWI
.................
Actually the Canadians thought of it and first used it (at Vimy Ridge in 1917), Haig merely borrowed the idea. Had that clown used it at the Somme rather than the tactics of a long barrage (mostly with more-or-less useless shrapnel rather than concussive shells) followed up by then walking very slowly in straight lines directly into murderous gunfire it would have saved thousands of lives and shortened the war considerably.
The rolling barrage thing though was just one aspect, better communication between units and specifically between the artillery and infantry also helped considerably, again the Canadians were responsible for that, with fewer troops on the ground they realised that using them intelligently would be the best way to preserve them and attain their military objectives.
Haig is a man who appears to be either loathed or respected. Given the enormity of the task and the huge resources rallied against him plus the complexities of the political and strategic Alliance at home and abroad it was a remarkable achievement to achieve a victory over Germany and the Central Powers. And if you look at the casualty figures for France,Germany and Russia you will see that actually the British were generally more protective of their men. But what a price for all nations!
Well got that off my chest.
My favourite short poem of the period by Siegfied Sassoon is "The General"
‘GOOD-MORNING; good-morning!’ the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of ’em dead,
And we’re cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
‘He’s a cheery old card,’ grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack. . . . .
But he did for them both by his plan of attack.
It should be compulsory for all citizens to spend at least one day of their lives at the Imperial War Museum in Southwark - a sobering and humbling experience.