@razil - Yes, software is a huge thing and how it utilises that hardware but that's not down to it being a PC or a Mac, it's more about the people who have developed the OS. Take two developers and tell them to build a website on the same bit of kit and your likely to have one that runs better than the other. The one thing Apple do and do very well is make well built, efficient, user friendly UIs. As for the hardware, disagree if you want, but it's true. Open up two similar priced Surface Books & Macs and the internals will mostly be the same.
@PragueAddick - What is bold about it? I have a PC about the same age as your MacBook and it still runs like a perfectly. I work in I.T, I know how to look after my kit. Someone else might not. There are probably 4 to 5 times more users of PCs compared to Macs, I'd wager that a large majority of those people buy a PC due to the price and aren't especially well versed in I.T security / internet safety or wouldn't know what happens if you decide to install 50 programs that all launch at start up. Consumer association members can say what they like, but logically, what's going to draw more negative feedback? A smaller group of people who on average spend a lot more on kit they specifically want or a much larger group of people with less know how and knowledge on what they're doing?
@Greenie - More reliable, the hardware is the same. Longer lasting, the hardware is the same. Especially now with SSDs so common, it makes naff all difference. Less viruses, you don't have anywhere the number of script kiddies trying to infect Macs compared to PCs. Historically, they may have been better but not anymore. Found this link, seems fairly unbiased when it comes to design...
Perhaps the most universal point of feedback that I got, however, was that in today’s day and age, there are no longer any major differentiating factors between the Mac and the Windows PC. Apple and Microsoft patrons alike were able to agree that it all really comes down to a matter of personal preference. Granted, there are some observable trends, like the fact that designers feel more at home on Macs while developers feel more at home on PCs. Many love one or the other, but can’t really articulate why. They just do. Plenty of critics have cited status, fashionability, and price point as driving factors behind the different platforms. But from a standpoint of core capabilities, they really aren’t that different. You can design a great site on a PC just as well as you can develop a great site on a Mac. What matters now is which platform you prefer to work with.
Interesting post, for me I just want a product to work, computers are there to help us, not the other way round, and everyone I know who uses a PC has agro with them, Im talking the home PC's not high industry servers or others, the bloke at home just wants his PC to work, but they dont they get infected, and/or you spend a ton of dough on some antivirus software, that itself needs upgrading every now and then for a fee. My old MacBook just does it all and as I say since I started on Macs in 92 Ive never had a virus. Ive been unlucky enough to work in one design company on PCs and the downtime was laughable, where I am now we are Mac based at work, 8 designers, 7 Pm's and we all use macs, the admin side of the company use PC's and they are forever falling over. So you can tell me all day how the internals are the same etc etc, so why dont macs fall down then? Also your comment on script kids aren't trying to infect Macs, tells me all I need to know. Maybe Macs offer more protection so they are more difficult to infect. I dont have a particular loyalty to Mac or PC, I just want as little agro as possible when using computers, and Macs give me that confidence, PCs dont.
If people spent the anount they spend on a mac to buy a windows laptop they would have a good experience. Yes you can buy a windows laptop for 3-400 but it won’t be the same as experience as 800+ mac.
Makes me laugh when people say windows is rubbish yet they have some crappy i3, 4gb ram machine for peanuts.
Yes you work in IT. I work in marketing. So indeed I don't know much about how to look after my kit, other than trying not to get biscuit crumbs on the keyboard (failed again today). Fortunately the Macs that I have owned, continuously since 1992, for home and office, never seemed to mind. Only one black laptop in the late 90s "failed". (I'm less convinced of the relative reliability of IOS and iPods, based on experience).
However because you don't work in marketing you've forgotten that neither your experience nor mine as individuals proves anything. Maybe you are not a fan of Which magazine but it's been doing its stuff for 50 plus years and is seeking to measure functional performance not just of computers but everything from mattresses to Mercedes, so dismiss it at your peril...
Dismiss it at my peril? Yes, I'm going to pay attention to a company that product tests everything from mattresses to Mercedes compared to ones that focus specifically on technology. That'd be like ignoring a Top Gear magazine review on a car because Which say it's no good. The phrase jack of all trades, master of none springs to mind with Which. Second review on trustpilot of which..."I found the reviews of the laptops which is why I signed up pretty out of date and not very informative."
@razil - Yeah, the end result is what matters but it's different for different people. Your setup might work for you, but would it for me? No. The software I primarily use is a ball ache to install on Linux based systems. Up until the last couple of years it wasn't even possible without virtualisation software. Does that make a PC running windows better than a Mac? Of course not, it just suits me better. @Greenie prefers the Mac for design and a lot of places do, it's just the way it is, I'm not going to say that PCs are better though, because for him it's not true. My point was things like reliability, etc are simply not true because under the hood, they are no different. Laptops priced in the same range as Macbooks are very different beasts to ones you can pick up for £350 from Currys.
@razil - Yes, software is a huge thing and how it utilises that hardware but that's not down to it being a PC or a Mac, it's more about the people who have developed the OS. Take two developers and tell them to build a website on the same bit of kit and your likely to have one that runs better than the other. The one thing Apple do and do very well is make well built, efficient, user friendly UIs. As for the hardware, disagree if you want, but it's true. Open up two similar priced Surface Books & Macs and the internals will mostly be the same.
@PragueAddick - What is bold about it? I have a PC about the same age as your MacBook and it still runs like a perfectly. I work in I.T, I know how to look after my kit. Someone else might not. There are probably 4 to 5 times more users of PCs compared to Macs, I'd wager that a large majority of those people buy a PC due to the price and aren't especially well versed in I.T security / internet safety or wouldn't know what happens if you decide to install 50 programs that all launch at start up. Consumer association members can say what they like, but logically, what's going to draw more negative feedback? A smaller group of people who on average spend a lot more on kit they specifically want or a much larger group of people with less know how and knowledge on what they're doing?
@Greenie - More reliable, the hardware is the same. Longer lasting, the hardware is the same. Especially now with SSDs so common, it makes naff all difference. Less viruses, you don't have anywhere the number of script kiddies trying to infect Macs compared to PCs. Historically, they may have been better but not anymore. Found this link, seems fairly unbiased when it comes to design...
Perhaps the most universal point of feedback that I got, however, was that in today’s day and age, there are no longer any major differentiating factors between the Mac and the Windows PC. Apple and Microsoft patrons alike were able to agree that it all really comes down to a matter of personal preference. Granted, there are some observable trends, like the fact that designers feel more at home on Macs while developers feel more at home on PCs. Many love one or the other, but can’t really articulate why. They just do. Plenty of critics have cited status, fashionability, and price point as driving factors behind the different platforms. But from a standpoint of core capabilities, they really aren’t that different. You can design a great site on a PC just as well as you can develop a great site on a Mac. What matters now is which platform you prefer to work with.
Interesting post, for me I just want a product to work, computers are there to help us, not the other way round, and everyone I know who uses a PC has agro with them, Im talking the home PC's not high industry servers or others, the bloke at home just wants his PC to work, but they dont they get infected, and/or you spend a ton of dough on some antivirus software, that itself needs upgrading every now and then for a fee. My old MacBook just does it all and as I say since I started on Macs in 92 Ive never had a virus. Ive been unlucky enough to work in one design company on PCs and the downtime was laughable, where I am now we are Mac based at work, 8 designers, 7 Pm's and we all use macs, the admin side of the company use PC's and they are forever falling over. So you can tell me all day how the internals are the same etc etc, so why dont macs fall down then? Also your comment on script kids aren't trying to infect Macs, tells me all I need to know. Maybe Macs offer more protection so they are more difficult to infect. I dont have a particular loyalty to Mac or PC, I just want as little agro as possible when using computers, and Macs give me that confidence, PCs dont.
That's fair enough, you go for what you feel comfortable with. Security wise, macs do trump windows, no denying that. That's part of the reason they don't get infected, the other like I said is people are more likely to attack PCs. That's not just down to security but also down to the fact that the sort of pricks that do it want to cause maximum damage. For every 1 million Macs sold, there are probably 5 million PCs. If you're a dick and want to bring down peoples machines, what would your target be? One million machines or five? Just because you've been lucky enough not to get a virus / malware doesn't mean they are not out there. Crossrider, OSX & X-Agent are three high profile ones that spring to mind over the last few years.
Macs don't fall down because they are idiot proof (not a dig) and restrictive, doesn't make them more reliable. Something technology wise like this is as reliable as it's user. Give two sets of car parts to company a and company b, they put it all together but it's got a different shell. One has it's arse ragged off it and breaks down, the other doesn't. Does that make the latter more reliable? No. It's an unfair comparison because they wasn't driven the same. For every Mac user who's machine doesn't fall over or get infected, there will be a PC user who has had the same experience.
As for the PCs forever failing...What sort of spec PCs were they? Were they surface books which are comparable to Macbooks? What sort of group policies were put into place on the windows machines to prevent users doing things they shouldn't?
I have been using an HP laptop for the last 3 years. Touch screen but also has tablet more which I seldom use.
Metallic so it looks nice. Sturdy too
Screen is glorious and built in speakers B&O) do what I need of them.
Quick to boot up and only crashes when I don't shut it down for several weeks )see previous comments about looking after your machine)
My only complaint is the size of the hard drive but aside from that it's bloody great. £800 well spent.
Microsoft have still got a lot of the market because of Windows - that's a large point for me so I'm unlikely to ever go to the Mac side (despite having iPhones for 10 years now). Anything that means I never need to use iTunes again is a bonus
I have been using an HP laptop for the last 3 years. Touch screen but also has tablet more which I seldom use.
Metallic so it looks nice. Sturdy too
Screen is glorious and built in speakers B&O) do what I need of them.
Quick to boot up and only crashes when I don't shut it down for several weeks )see previous comments about looking after your machine)
My only complaint is the size of the hard drive but aside from that it's bloody great. £800 well spent.
Microsoft have still got a lot of the market because of Windows - that's a large point for me so I'm unlikely to ever go to the Mac side (despite having iPhones for 10 years now). Anything that means I never need to use iTunes again is a bonus
I have been using an HP laptop for the last 3 years. Touch screen but also has tablet more which I seldom use.
Metallic so it looks nice. Sturdy too
Screen is glorious and built in speakers B&O) do what I need of them.
Quick to boot up and only crashes when I don't shut it down for several weeks )see previous comments about looking after your machine)
My only complaint is the size of the hard drive but aside from that it's bloody great. £800 well spent.
Microsoft have still got a lot of the market because of Windows - that's a large point for me so I'm unlikely to ever go to the Mac side (despite having iPhones for 10 years now). Anything that means I never need to use iTunes again is a bonus
Just in case anyone thinks that Looky is just throwing random insults around, I'd like to second this. Gimp is a fantastic package, if there is a better freebie out there for anything on the web, I'd love to see it. It's infinitely better than Paint or the ridiculous Paint 3D gimmick that Microsoft put out.
Shame Macs are expensive as the OS is far, far superior.
@EastTerrace If you look back on this thread, you'll see comments about how like-for-like they aren't, it's just that you can buy cheap pieces of sh!t from Curry's etc. that make Macs look expensive.
I remember reading something a couple of years ago where someone compared the top of the range Mac Pro to a Dell - just to put the same processors in the Dell cost more than the entire Mac. I don't know if that still applies but it did then.
I'm very sceptical of any claims that Mac's operating systems are better. My experience is that they are great until Apple start forcing upgrades on you. The second you accept an upgrade, things go downhill rapidly. The trouble is that I can't stand having messages flash up on my screen about updates waiting to be installed as they ruin the experience. I know though that installing them will invariably make my computer worse. Accepting them is like a slow digital euthenasia.
There are two key things in which Macs excel. 1. You don't have a stand alone base unit cluttering up the place. 2. They look sleek and stylish. If that is what you want, then fine get yourself a Mac, but never kid yourself that you're getting a better computer.
Understand about the updates and upgrades but I cannot remember ever having to uninstall or redownload a corrupt driver (for instance) in all my time using them.
Pros and cons to both but it’s undeniable that Apple have been massively neglecting their Mac line up the past few years in favour of the iPhone and iPad. They are good computers but they could be so much better.
Comments
My old MacBook just does it all and as I say since I started on Macs in 92 Ive never had a virus. Ive been unlucky enough to work in one design company on PCs and the downtime was laughable, where I am now we are Mac based at work, 8 designers, 7 Pm's and we all use macs, the admin side of the company use PC's and they are forever falling over. So you can tell me all day how the internals are the same etc etc, so why dont macs fall down then?
Also your comment on script kids aren't trying to infect Macs, tells me all I need to know. Maybe Macs offer more protection so they are more difficult to infect.
I dont have a particular loyalty to Mac or PC, I just want as little agro as possible when using computers, and Macs give me that confidence, PCs dont.
Makes me laugh when people say windows is rubbish yet they have some crappy i3, 4gb ram machine for peanuts.
PS my example was an i5 with 8gb ram
@razil - Yeah, the end result is what matters but it's different for different people. Your setup might work for you, but would it for me? No. The software I primarily use is a ball ache to install on Linux based systems. Up until the last couple of years it wasn't even possible without virtualisation software. Does that make a PC running windows better than a Mac? Of course not, it just suits me better. @Greenie prefers the Mac for design and a lot of places do, it's just the way it is, I'm not going to say that PCs are better though, because for him it's not true. My point was things like reliability, etc are simply not true because under the hood, they are no different. Laptops priced in the same range as Macbooks are very different beasts to ones you can pick up for £350 from Currys.
Macs don't fall down because they are idiot proof (not a dig) and restrictive, doesn't make them more reliable. Something technology wise like this is as reliable as it's user. Give two sets of car parts to company a and company b, they put it all together but it's got a different shell. One has it's arse ragged off it and breaks down, the other doesn't. Does that make the latter more reliable? No. It's an unfair comparison because they wasn't driven the same. For every Mac user who's machine doesn't fall over or get infected, there will be a PC user who has had the same experience.
As for the PCs forever failing...What sort of spec PCs were they? Were they surface books which are comparable to Macbooks? What sort of group policies were put into place on the windows machines to prevent users doing things they shouldn't?
Me? Don't think that at all. My laptop is similar price to a Mac.
Metallic so it looks nice. Sturdy too
Screen is glorious and built in speakers B&O) do what I need of them.
Quick to boot up and only crashes when I don't shut it down for several weeks )see previous comments about looking after your machine)
My only complaint is the size of the hard drive but aside from that it's bloody great. £800 well spent.
Microsoft have still got a lot of the market because of Windows - that's a large point for me so I'm unlikely to ever go to the Mac side (despite having iPhones for 10 years now). Anything that means I never need to use iTunes again is a bonus
Since I went out on my own a few years ago I’ve always used Apple - never regretted it and find them a lot better.
The main difference for me is that everything on an Apple system just works. They spend time on the user experience and make it easy to use.
I remember reading something a couple of years ago where someone compared the top of the range Mac Pro to a Dell - just to put the same processors in the Dell cost more than the entire Mac. I don't know if that still applies but it did then.
There are two key things in which Macs excel. 1. You don't have a stand alone base unit cluttering up the place. 2. They look sleek and stylish. If that is what you want, then fine get yourself a Mac, but never kid yourself that you're getting a better computer.