I think the proof in the pudding will be this summer. With all the loans and players out of contract, if ESI do have money and are serious about making us a solid championship or even playoff contender, we should see a squad overhaul on the same level as the run up to the 11/12 season.
If we dont, and all we see is a ton of loans, and cheap championship/prem cast offs at the end of their careers, we should be worried.
We're not going to be successful with a team of overpaid PrimaDonnas, however talented they may be. Like Curbs before him, it's not Bowyer's way of team building.
ESI said they have a "5-year plan" to get into the Premier League, that progress is intended to be gradual and transitional.
I reckon we can expect to see the nucleus of the current team retained - and attempts made to sign a couple of the loanees who have impressed; plus Lyle, of course. We'll add to that with an 'upgrade' of several new signings, maybe even the legendary 'Marquee' signing?
We know Bows by now ....... he'll look to retain the 'togetherness' of the group; new signings need to meet that ethos and be of the right character - remember, Bows looks to recruit 'winners' who'll give him 100% for 90 minutes, if required.
Expect players with a good 1st touch, comfortable on the ball, hungry to prove themselves. He'll want youthful energy with pace; and steady seasoned pros for their experience.
Rumour has it despite our 19th position right now, Bows is still targeting the playoffs ...... (!) That tells you that's the target next season.
If ESI are skint, how did they pass the proof of funds test that the EFL would have levied? Yes the club cost £1, but they would have had to have proved funds to keep the club running and probably funding for the eventual purchase of all the assets.
This is a genuine question and not a dig at anyone.
@Airman Brown in what way are they trying to raise funds? For example there’s a big difference between trying to attract new investors compared to attempting to increase crowds, bring in more and bigger sponsors etc.
Both. Some people previously interested in buying the club have been approached to see if they are still interested in becoming involved.
@Airman Brown in what way are they trying to raise funds? For example there’s a big difference between trying to attract new investors compared to attempting to increase crowds, bring in more and bigger sponsors etc.
Both. Some people previously interested in buying the club have been approached to see if they are still interested in becoming involved.
Hope Andrew Muir can still find that scarf.
As I've said before there are still a lot of questions to be answered, for me at least, about the ESI business plan and financing but don't see a problem with looking at other revenue streams or investors per see.
@Airman Brown in what way are they trying to raise funds? For example there’s a big difference between trying to attract new investors compared to attempting to increase crowds, bring in more and bigger sponsors etc.
Both. Some people previously interested in buying the club have been approached to see if they are still interested in becoming involved.
If ESI are skint, how did they pass the proof of funds test that the EFL would have levied? Yes the club cost £1, but they would have had to have proved funds to keep the club running and probably funding for the eventual purchase of all the assets.
This is a genuine question and not a dig at anyone.
It’s not the EFL’s business who owns the ground, only that the club has the ability to play its games there. As ESI have said, the club is predicted to break even in 2019/20 so it’s unclear what that future funding might need to look like.
However, I’m not suggesting there isn’t any, simply that some of the assumptions being made about resources and player contracts are based on rhetoric (if that) rather than evidence.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
We're not going to be successful with a team of overpaid PrimaDonnas, however talented they may be. Like Curbs before him, it's not Bowyer's way of team building.
ESI said they have a "5-year plan" to get into the Premier League, that progress is intended to be gradual and transitional.
I reckon we can expect to see the nucleus of the current team retained - and attempts made to sign a couple of the loanees who have impressed; plus Lyle, of course. We'll add to that with an 'upgrade' of several new signings, maybe even the legendary 'Marquee' signing?
We know Bows by now ....... he'll look to retain the 'togetherness' of the group; new signings need to meet that ethos and be of the right character - remember, Bows looks to recruit 'winners' who'll give him 100% for 90 minutes, if required.
Expect players with a good 1st touch, comfortable on the ball, hungry to prove themselves. He'll want youthful energy with pace; and steady seasoned pros for their experience.
Rumour has it despite our 19th position right now, Bows is still targeting the playoffs ...... (!) That tells you that's the target next season.
And the team will be evolved with that in mind.
totally agree Oggy but how does Maddison fit into that criteria?
What I would like to see ideally is us getting a few wins reasonably quickly so we know pretty much we will be in this division next year, then see efforts to tie the players Bowyer wants to keep up before the window opens. In terms of ESI I know I was delighted when they took over, I was bemused at the promises from Southall and failure to deliver on those IMO in the window and finding out they haven't fully purchased the club yet. The window hasn't convinced me of them but signing Bowyer up re-assures me a bit as I think he must be happy with what they have told him.
I moaned a lot during the window, but there is little point moaning now. We have to see what happens and react to that, but I am anticipating some frustrating times over the summer more than expecting them to be straightforward. Maybe becuase I am a glass half full person, but I am not normally. maybe I am when it comes to Charlton! Anyway, lets all hope we have positive after positive concerning ESI over the coming months.
In terms of being play off contenders - having seen play off contenders, I don't think we need that much. Just a decent squad. I know they are not play off contenders but watching Sheff Wednesday last night, I thought they were beyond rubbish.
Derby at Charlton, Charlton at Stoke, Wednesday at Luton etc. Every team has poor days at the office and the lower you are in the table the more bad days you have. Having players with character is so important and whisper it, I believe Stoke away was our nadir but we will still have days when the opposition take advantage of our lapses in concentration. Planning for next season will be easier when we know that we are still in the championship.
First things first - the team needs to win enough points to ensure our place in this league next season. Mathematically, that could be any time from mid March onwards. As soon as that happens I can see no reason why ESI cannot move to renegotiate contracts with those we wish to retain as we push for promotion.
ESI have stated their aim is Premier League within 5 years. And I doubt if their plans include then being relegated straight back to the Championship! This means building a squad of, say, 20+ players who are definitely of top Championship standard, with the potential to form the basis of a decent Premier quality team, and who also have the sort of personal qualities which fit the Charlton ethos.
Some may already be in the team (how many & who?) or knocking on the door from the academy.
Others will need to be brought in from other clubs, and we know Gallen and Bowyer have a good eye for talent, even when shopping in Lidl & Aldi. Hopefully next summer they will be able to add some products from M&S and Waitrose! Allowing for losing some good players along the way (eg offers too good to refuse, waning ability through age/injury, wanting to move away for personal reasons), we could easily need to sign 6-8 new permanent players a year, plus loans.
So maybe having 10 players out of contract at the end of this season is more of an opportunity than a threat - assuming, of course, our new owners have enough money put aside for reasonable transfer fees and sensible Championship wages to attract and retain the calibre of player needed to replace those leaving. This remains to be seen (as indeed does the purchase of the freeholds, and the work on the facilities at the training ground).
We're not going to be successful with a team of overpaid PrimaDonnas, however talented they may be. Like Curbs before him, it's not Bowyer's way of team building.
ESI said they have a "5-year plan" to get into the Premier League, that progress is intended to be gradual and transitional.
I reckon we can expect to see the nucleus of the current team retained - and attempts made to sign a couple of the loanees who have impressed; plus Lyle, of course. We'll add to that with an 'upgrade' of several new signings, maybe even the legendary 'Marquee' signing?
We know Bows by now ....... he'll look to retain the 'togetherness' of the group; new signings need to meet that ethos and be of the right character - remember, Bows looks to recruit 'winners' who'll give him 100% for 90 minutes, if required.
Expect players with a good 1st touch, comfortable on the ball, hungry to prove themselves. He'll want youthful energy with pace; and steady seasoned pros for their experience.
Rumour has it despite our 19th position right now, Bows is still targeting the playoffs ...... (!) That tells you that's the target next season.
And the team will be evolved with that in mind.
totally agree Oggy but how does Maddison fit into that criteria?
Good question, Large.
We know we were desperate to sign an available fit midfielder with proven creative spark.
My take is that Bowyer thought he could 'improve' Maddison, working with him to make him a better alround midfielder. Bows even drove all the way to Peterborough in his own time, to meet with the player in his own home.
That really should have clinched the deal. It didn't. The player wouldn't commit. Lee wouldn't have been impressed.
I would be very surprised if we went back for him in the summer.
ESI have stated their ambition is to get the club in the PL in 5 years, buy The Valley and training ground in 6 months, tie up Taylor, Jacko and Marshall to new contracts, plus acquire Cullen and Leko.
So far they have acquired the club for nowt, lost the wages of Gallagher, Ledley, Kayal and Leko and replaced them with McGeady, Greene, Smith and Davis plus sign up Bowyer - I suspect a minor uptick to cost off set by a small incoming from Fosu sell on.
Lots of exciting ambitions. The only real stand out delivery being Bowyer
Interesting people seem relaxed about them supposedly still looking for outside investment but if it was the Aussies rather than a Middle Eastern chap then I suspect that there would be way more scepticism.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
He has delivered, he’s joint top of our assists chart with 5 and usually look a better team with him on the pitch.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
He has delivered, he’s joint top of our assists chart with 5 and usually look a better team with him on the pitch.
5 assists from an injury prone player isn't really a big sell. He's okay for a cameo but too injury prone to be a key player.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
Williams is absolutely what we need.
Okay, he's not a 'machine' like Cullen. He'd be playing perhaps Premier League if he was. But that's why we can afford him.
Luxury player? Nope, he's an integral part of our game plan. So what if he plays only 60 minutes? Oztumer is his other half and maybe McGeady is considered as part of the equation also. Bowyer rotates players anyway, that's the system chosen to get the best out of individual players for the benefit of the team performance. And each gameplan reflects that.
On top of that, the fella fits in, has bought into the ethos of the 'togetherness' of the squad - and on the pitch very much makes the team tick, unpredictable and able to unlock tight defences with a moment of magic.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
He has delivered, he’s joint top of our assists chart with 5 and usually look a better team with him on the pitch.
I love watching him, but the stats aren't spectacular though.
I know he's described himself as someone who tends to set up the assister, but a creative midfielder like Williams does need to contribute more goals and assists. Gallagher had only one fewer assist, but also delivered 6 goals.
I don't know why he doesn't score more goals, it's as if he feels his role in the team isn't to drive into the box, but to play passes from the edge of it. 3 league goals in 151 appearances is a meagre return for someone of his talent.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
I suspect Muir was approached before the takeover was announced, which is why he suddenly attended the Preston game. He'd already tried to link up with other buyers. This isn't about the Aussies though. It's a group not on anyone's radar in 2019.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
I suspect Muir was approached before the takeover was announced, which is why he suddenly attended the Preston game. He'd already tried to link up with other buyers. This isn't about the Aussies.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
Williams is absolutely what we need.
Okay, he's not a 'machine' like Cullen. He'd be playing perhaps Premier League if he was. But that's why we can afford him.
Luxury player? Nope, he's an integral part of our game plan. So what if he plays only 60 minutes? Oztumer is his other half and maybe McGeady is considered as part of the equation also. Bowyer rotates players anyway, that's the system chosen to get the best out of individual players for the benefit of the team performance. And each gameplan reflects that.
On top of that, the fella fits in, has bought into the ethos of the 'togetherness' of the squad - and on the pitch very much makes the team tick, unpredictable and able to unlock tight defences with a moment of magic.
I hope he stays.
I like Williams but I don't think he's as effective or good as some are making out. Not convinced by his injury record.
Jonny Williams isn't a goal scorer like Taylor but is a game changer. When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top. After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again. I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
Needs to do it on a regular basis and to deliver more. He is effectively a 'luxury' player who is maybe not what we need if funds are tight?
He has delivered, he’s joint top of our assists chart with 5 and usually look a better team with him on the pitch.
I love watching him, but the stats aren't spectacular though.
I know he's described himself as someone who tends to set up the assister, but a creative midfielder like Williams does need to contribute more goals and assists. Gallagher had only one fewer assist, but also delivered 6 goals.
I don't know why he doesn't score more goals, it's as if he feels his role in the team isn't to drive into the box, but to play passes from the edge of it. 3 league goals in 151 appearances is a meagre return for someone of his talent.
You seem to be just looking at stats though. They rarely tell the whole story.
He might not get credited with the assist or score goals - but he invariably plays a key role in most of our attacking play. Remember how the team performed recently when Williams was injured? We're generally much more creative and effective with Williams in it.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
I suspect Muir was approached before the takeover was announced, which is why he suddenly attended the Preston game. He'd already tried to link up with other buyers. This isn't about the Aussies though. It's a group not on anyone's radar in 2019.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
I suspect Muir was approached before the takeover was announced, which is why he suddenly attended the Preston game. He'd already tried to link up with other buyers. This isn't about the Aussies though. It's a group not on anyone's radar in 2019.
Williams will be an interesting one, will he suddenly want the kind of money he used to be on now the club isn't skint, and does his injury record command that kind of money
Evidence?
Have a day off
?? This is really interesting stuff.
Not surprised you think so, given this is leading to rumours the Aussies could be back!
I suspect Muir was approached before the takeover was announced, which is why he suddenly attended the Preston game. He'd already tried to link up with other buyers. This isn't about the Aussies though. It's a group not on anyone's radar in 2019.
And that group is who?
Swiss.
Didn't the Sebastian Sainsbury bid have some sort of Swiss connotation?
Comments
If we dont, and all we see is a ton of loans, and cheap championship/prem cast offs at the end of their careers, we should be worried.
Like Curbs before him, it's not Bowyer's way of team building.
ESI said they have a "5-year plan" to get into the Premier League, that progress is intended to be gradual and transitional.
I reckon we can expect to see the nucleus of the current team retained - and attempts made to sign a couple of the loanees who have impressed; plus Lyle, of course. We'll add to that with an 'upgrade' of several new signings, maybe even the legendary 'Marquee' signing?
We know Bows by now ....... he'll look to retain the 'togetherness' of the group; new signings need to meet that ethos and be of the right character - remember, Bows looks to recruit 'winners' who'll give him 100% for 90 minutes, if required.
Expect players with a good 1st touch, comfortable on the ball, hungry to prove themselves.
He'll want youthful energy with pace; and steady seasoned pros for their experience.
Rumour has it despite our 19th position right now, Bows is still targeting the playoffs ...... (!)
That tells you that's the target next season.
And the team will be evolved with that in mind.
As I've said before there are still a lot of questions to be answered, for me at least, about the ESI business plan and financing but don't see a problem with looking at other revenue streams or investors per see.
so basically risk spreading.
However, I’m not suggesting there isn’t any, simply that some of the assumptions being made about resources and player contracts are based on rhetoric (if that) rather than evidence.
When Jonny came on at Wembley the game was in limbo with no one on top.
After Jonny had been on for 5 minutes and 5 fouls on him we were on the front foot again.
I want Williams to get the ball on the edge of our opponents area not on the half way line.
Both Jonny himself and Bowyer know his Body is injury proned but even in a cameo role he must be worth keeping.
I moaned a lot during the window, but there is little point moaning now. We have to see what happens and react to that, but I am anticipating some frustrating times over the summer more than expecting them to be straightforward. Maybe becuase I am a glass half full person, but I am not normally. maybe I am when it comes to Charlton! Anyway, lets all hope we have positive after positive concerning ESI over the coming months.
In terms of being play off contenders - having seen play off contenders, I don't think we need that much. Just a decent squad. I know they are not play off contenders but watching Sheff Wednesday last night, I thought they were beyond rubbish.
Planning for next season will be easier when we know that we are still in the championship.
ESI have stated their aim is Premier League within 5 years. And I doubt if their plans include then being relegated straight back to the Championship! This means building a squad of, say, 20+ players who are definitely of top Championship standard, with the potential to form the basis of a decent Premier quality team, and who also have the sort of personal qualities which fit the Charlton ethos.
Some may already be in the team (how many & who?) or knocking on the door from the academy.
Others will need to be brought in from other clubs, and we know Gallen and Bowyer have a good eye for talent, even when shopping in Lidl & Aldi. Hopefully next summer they will be able to add some products from M&S and Waitrose! Allowing for losing some good players along the way (eg offers too good to refuse, waning ability through age/injury, wanting to move away for personal reasons), we could easily need to sign 6-8 new permanent players a year, plus loans.
So maybe having 10 players out of contract at the end of this season is more of an opportunity than a threat - assuming, of course, our new owners have enough money put aside for reasonable transfer fees and sensible Championship wages to attract and retain the calibre of player needed to replace those leaving. This remains to be seen (as indeed does the purchase of the freeholds, and the work on the facilities at the training ground).
We know we were desperate to sign an available fit midfielder with proven creative spark.
My take is that Bowyer thought he could 'improve' Maddison, working with him to make him a better alround midfielder.
Bows even drove all the way to Peterborough in his own time, to meet with the player in his own home.
That really should have clinched the deal.
It didn't. The player wouldn't commit. Lee wouldn't have been impressed.
I would be very surprised if we went back for him in the summer.
So far they have acquired the club for nowt, lost the wages of Gallagher, Ledley, Kayal and Leko and replaced them with McGeady, Greene, Smith and Davis plus sign up Bowyer - I suspect a minor uptick to cost off set by a small incoming from Fosu sell on.
Lots of exciting ambitions. The only real stand out delivery being Bowyer
Interesting people seem relaxed about them supposedly still looking for outside investment but if it was the Aussies rather than a Middle Eastern chap then I suspect that there would be way more scepticism.
Okay, he's not a 'machine' like Cullen. He'd be playing perhaps Premier League if he was.
But that's why we can afford him.
Luxury player? Nope, he's an integral part of our game plan. So what if he plays only 60 minutes? Oztumer is his other half and maybe McGeady is considered as part of the equation also. Bowyer rotates players anyway, that's the system chosen to get the best out of individual players for the benefit of the team performance. And each gameplan reflects that.
On top of that, the fella fits in, has bought into the ethos of the 'togetherness' of the squad - and on the pitch very much makes the team tick, unpredictable and able to unlock tight defences with a moment of magic.
I hope he stays.
I know he's described himself as someone who tends to set up the assister, but a creative midfielder like Williams does need to contribute more goals and assists. Gallagher had only one fewer assist, but also delivered 6 goals.
I don't know why he doesn't score more goals, it's as if he feels his role in the team isn't to drive into the box, but to play passes from the edge of it. 3 league goals in 151 appearances is a meagre return for someone of his talent.
He might not get credited with the assist or score goals - but he invariably plays a key role in most of our attacking play.
Remember how the team performed recently when Williams was injured? We're generally much more creative and effective with Williams in it.