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Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday - What is happening?

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Comments

  • edited February 2020
    bobmunro said:
    This is a massive can of worms.  By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.  

    Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
    The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.
    The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.

    But I am in the pub so may be wrong.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00080612
  • bobmunro said:
    This is a massive can of worms.  By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.  

    Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
    The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.
    The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.

    But I am in the pub so may be wrong.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00080612
    Had a quick look. Not a stellar balance sheet, but debtors of £131m and cash of £83m. Creditors under 1 year of £160m. Current ratio thus 1.34, so solvent enough.
  • Wait until they are mathematically safe, then dock points. The EFL then state that they took a firm line, the clubs survive and save the embarrassing process for the EFL of appealing and dragging it out for another 18 months. 
    Very simple if you are found guilty hand the punishment out straight away with a 28 day deadline to appeal. 
    Then again it's the EFL
  • From Owlstalk:

    An EFL spokesman said it would "clearly be inappropriate" to comment specifically on matters linked to their "comprehensive investigation. Other than to reiterate that, following the review of a large number of documents provided by the club - some of those seen for the first time - evidence came to light to justify multiple charges of misconduct."



  • stonemuse said:
    From Owlstalk:

    An EFL spokesman said it would "clearly be inappropriate" to comment specifically on matters linked to their "comprehensive investigation. Other than to reiterate that, following the review of a large number of documents provided by the club - some of those seen for the first time - evidence came to light to justify multiple charges of misconduct."



    Does this man that Katie's email chats with @cabbles where she admits she didn't have a clue what she was doing have come to light?
  • In the crazy world of football that we play in today, this is so wrong to be arguing around these remote financial arguments rather than whose  team is the best.

    But it is at the same point nowadays really vital as money is so much the real key now. Also everyone seems to be having odd financial arrangements (not least us, we'll buy the club now and the ground in 6 months) or chancing their arm as in these examples 
    So my conclusion is this is an important subject/ thread and some real quality comments as well. A really interesting read. Thanks
  • Should either club be docked 12 points, putting them into the dogfight I would think that both would be strong enough to stay out of the drop zone in the final reckoning.
  • Derby have the hardest fixture list (on paper) in the entire league.
    They have already played everyone in the bottom 8.
    I had them eyed up as one that could plummet into a dogfight and that’s before any potential points deduction 
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  • The team to plummet is Hull in my eyes.
  • Derby have the hardest fixture list (on paper) in the entire league.
    They have already played everyone in the bottom 8.
    I had them eyed up as one that could plummet into a dogfight and that’s before any potential points deduction 
    cafc_se7 said:
    The team to plummet is Hull in my eyes.
    Agree both, but Sheffield Wednesday are in deep. They have quite a few out of contract at the end of this season and as the punishment is likely to be points, fine, and a transfer embargo they could be in trouble even if they stay up this season.
  • Great analysis and commentary from Muttley
  • Dazzler21 said:
    Deduct 

    12 points from Birmingham,
    20 points from Derby for a spurious dispute
    and
    20 points from Sheffield for tax evasion and fraudulent activity towards the EFL. 
    Tax evasion and fraud should mean being dispelled from the Football League
    Except bringing FORWARD the date you recognise income in your books isn’t tax evasion. I don’t think anyone is suggesting tax evasion are they? (Other than you two!)
  • edited February 2020
    IdleHans said:
    bobmunro said:
    This is a massive can of worms.  By taking retrospective and late action on imprecise rules, the EFL are opening themselves up to massive legal issues from clubs denied the Premiership due to cheating.  

    Such action may lead the EFL into liquidation and a replacement organisation formed. Can only be good for football.
    The EFL are a member organisation - it is up to the members (the 72) to determine whether or not the EFL is fit for purpose, and if not whether it should be replaced.
    The EFL is a limited company, seemingly bankrupt, with undisclosed creditors of £145m, and this is before legal action.

    But I am in the pub so may be wrong.

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00080612
    Had a quick look. Not a stellar balance sheet, but debtors of £131m and cash of £83m. Creditors under 1 year of £160m. Current ratio thus 1.34, so solvent enough.
    We don't know the terms of over 1 year debtors/creditors but they have a negative balance sheet of half a million, and why do they have pension debtors of nearly six million, a P&L item?  In my experience, declared, underfunded,  pension funds are the tip of an iceberg.  Billions have just been wiped off FTSE due to Novovirus, how big is the deficit now?

    I certainly wouldn't invest in the Football League Limited.
  • what’s happening?
    slightly clever people at some football clubs are driving great big buses through the flimsy financial regulations while cheerfully flipping Vs to all critics 
    the supposed authority the EFL has sat by and even rubber stamped certain transactions and their subsequent reporting 
    wider attention has been drawn to the flagrant bus driving and the complicit EFL gravy train suppers are lamely kicking the cans down the road hoping to punt them into the longest grass when nobody’s looking 
    one of the former bus conductors was a Belgian lawyer with no football management experience or skill who subsequently exited stage left
    some commentators bang on relentlessly about points deductions to be imposed on transgressors but this is little more than daydreaming given the risible inadequacy of the relevant authority the EFL
    in short - nothing to see here please go about your business 
  • Give Fletcher a personal punishment of bad sex and shit wine, for life... 
  • Off_it said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    Deduct 

    12 points from Birmingham,
    20 points from Derby for a spurious dispute
    and
    20 points from Sheffield for tax evasion and fraudulent activity towards the EFL. 
    Tax evasion and fraud should mean being dispelled from the Football League
    Except bringing FORWARD the date you recognise income in your books isn’t tax evasion. I don’t think anyone is suggesting tax evasion are they? (Other than you two!)
    Apologies i misunderstood what they'd done. Still 20 point deduction for being massively overrated
  • On the tram back to the hotel last night, I got talking to a few Owls fans, To state the obvious they are very worried. Cynically they hope that as their owner is VERY wealthy, a huge fine will get them off the hook and they will not have points deducted.
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  • Birmingham seem to have been cleared by independent disciplinary commission 



    EFL Statement: Birmingham City

    The EFL notes the decision made by the independent Disciplinary Commission in dismissing a misconduct charge brought by the EFL against Birmingham City in May 2019. 

    That charge alleged the Club failed to adhere to elements of a business plan agreed with the Club following an earlier breach of Profitability and Sustainability Rules.

    The decision remains subject to appeal and the League will consider the judgment in full before making any further comment.

  • I down, 2 to go. 

    So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.

    Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then 
    Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guilty
  • I down, 2 to go. 

    So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.

    Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then 
    Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guilty
    So, is their verdict imminent?
  • Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one
  • I down, 2 to go. 

    So it seems like you can exceed FFP, get a points deduction, but still benefit from it by still having the players there that caused it.

    Nothings changed since the Tevez affair then 
    Birmingham certainly have cut costs and sold Che Adams last summer for a big fee, whereas Wednesday and Derby to me seem far more likely to be guilty
    So, is their verdict imminent?
    No idea BUT with the Birmingham announcement AND last year's Birmingham announcement also being made in March, surely it has to be soon?

  • Birmingham certainly won't have any issues next season given that half of Europe is supposedly trying to sign Bellingham for 30m+ this summer.
  • Birmingham certainly won't have any issues next season given that half of Europe is supposedly trying to sign Bellingham for 30m+ this summer.
    I dont see how they are even getting that, he is 16 years old, he cant sign a pro contract until he is 17.

    He doesnt turn 17 until 29th June, not sure how junior contracts work but surely he can just sign for a club abroad and a compensation package has to be agreed that wont be anywhere near £30 Million.

    I could be wrong about that tho and Birmingham could already have a contract agreed with him for when he turns 17 so they get money but wasnt sure that was allowed
  • Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one
    So what you are saying that it's ok for us to sign Bellingham & Mitrovic next season for a combined £60m. In 3 years time find that we have exceeded FFP rules & get told we must raise money to make up the shortfall in the January. We have a bid in for Dougherty for £5m but we refuse it as we know we can get more in the summer. 

    Seems like 2 wrongs DO make a right.
     
  • Wasn't Birmingham issue that they didn't sell Adams in January, instead waited for the summer and got a bigger fee. Can see why the EFL lost that one
    So what you are saying that it's ok for us to sign Bellingham & Mitrovic next season for a combined £60m. In 3 years time find that we have exceeded FFP rules & get told we must raise money to make up the shortfall in the January. We have a bid in for Dougherty for £5m but we refuse it as we know we can get more in the summer. 

    Seems like 2 wrongs DO make a right.
     
    But Birmingham didn’t spend £60m on two players and off set it by selling someone for £5m 3 years later 
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