To be fair it would seem mental to pay out to companies due a pandemic, when they’d made a choice not to take out pandemic cover.
I doubt an awful lot of businesses actively chose not to take it.
Do insurance companies decide which policies their customers are allowed then?
In a word yes, Insurers decide the policy wording.
A lot of business insurance is still bought through brokers, so depends on what the broker offered and what they had access to....... theres also a lot of the direct polices (such as direct line) which only give BI in the event of a physical damage loss so pandemic is not even offered/covered at all so the insured won't have chosen not to take it..
To be fair it would seem mental to pay out to companies due a pandemic, when they’d made a choice not to take out pandemic cover.
I doubt an awful lot of businesses actively chose not to take it.
Ignorance is bliss then? as its a choice you could have taken out there will be no goodwill gesture at all, no chance.
My point was that I doubt many (%) were offered it and chose not to take it. And how many small business when they went to buy their insurance last year thought 'i must remember to ask about Pandemic BI insurance'......
Learn something new everyday, I had assumed it would be in opt in, opt out kind of thing, much like my health insurance. Cheers Rob.
No, also generally in the UK we are poor buyers of insurance, not taking the time to look ir understand what we are buying.
How many people buy their motor or home insurance through Confused.com etc?
@Rob7Lee without asking for too much PI, you in the London market?
There's a lot of talk going on at the moment regarding coverage. Hiscox are getting a lot of pressure on their commercial side but are refusing to budge. The whole thing is a very complex issue that I'm sure the media and government will all too happily lay the blame at evil insurers. When things settle down a bit it'll be very interesting to see the fall out as the whole market has been in a state of flux for a few years, no doubt this will clear out even more of the small players just leaving the big boys to tidy up.
I am yes, Hiscox are a little bit out on their own due to their policy wording, I think in the main the rest are what they are, some for sure covered it, some certainly didn't. I'm surprised at Hiscox to be honest who've always had that reputation of paying claims, i'm not an insurance lawyer but been in the game 30+ years and I just don't see how they'll get out of it.
Of course their exposure could be huge.......
The US thats more of an issue as the states retroactively change the law/goal posts, thats going to be interesting.
I agree with your last sentiment, I think a few more will fall by the wayside, it's what the industry is becoming, big is best......
Can't say it's the industry I joined all those years ago, i'm pretty jaded by the last 10 years, might be time for a change. I know the image insurers have to the outside world, but how many have made any money the past 5-10 years, not many!!
I started in the business in 1975. As an outsider these days I can see how it has really changed, though I am still working remotely for a London-based MGA.
Back to Hiscox and I think the issue of reinsurance is a major factor in their current stance. It's extremely doubtful that any reinsurance policy would respond and although we don't know what their exposure is they're running the whole risk.
I don't know what they bought, but number of carriers are claiming against their reinsurance. Aviva has told theirs expect 4-800m USD.
@Rob7Lee without asking for too much PI, you in the London market?
There's a lot of talk going on at the moment regarding coverage. Hiscox are getting a lot of pressure on their commercial side but are refusing to budge. The whole thing is a very complex issue that I'm sure the media and government will all too happily lay the blame at evil insurers. When things settle down a bit it'll be very interesting to see the fall out as the whole market has been in a state of flux for a few years, no doubt this will clear out even more of the small players just leaving the big boys to tidy up.
I am yes, Hiscox are a little bit out on their own due to their policy wording, I think in the main the rest are what they are, some for sure covered it, some certainly didn't. I'm surprised at Hiscox to be honest who've always had that reputation of paying claims, i'm not an insurance lawyer but been in the game 30+ years and I just don't see how they'll get out of it.
Of course their exposure could be huge.......
The US thats more of an issue as the states retroactively change the law/goal posts, thats going to be interesting.
I agree with your last sentiment, I think a few more will fall by the wayside, it's what the industry is becoming, big is best......
Can't say it's the industry I joined all those years ago, i'm pretty jaded by the last 10 years, might be time for a change. I know the image insurers have to the outside world, but how many have made any money the past 5-10 years, not many!!
I started in the business in 1975. As an outsider these days I can see how it has really changed, though I am still working remotely for a London-based MGA.
Back to Hiscox and I think the issue of reinsurance is a major factor in their current stance. It's extremely doubtful that any reinsurance policy would respond and although we don't know what their exposure is they're running the whole risk.
I don't know what they bought, but number of carriers are claiming against their reinsurance. Aviva has told theirs expect 4-800m USD.
Interesting. BI is only one coverage involved and is possibly minor compared with travel, life, health and contingency and that could be where Aviva will be picking up the majority of their claims, possibly with specific reinsurance. Whatever, direct claims and reinsurance claims are going to be tough. As usual the main winners will be the lawyers!
@Rob7Lee without asking for too much PI, you in the London market?
There's a lot of talk going on at the moment regarding coverage. Hiscox are getting a lot of pressure on their commercial side but are refusing to budge. The whole thing is a very complex issue that I'm sure the media and government will all too happily lay the blame at evil insurers. When things settle down a bit it'll be very interesting to see the fall out as the whole market has been in a state of flux for a few years, no doubt this will clear out even more of the small players just leaving the big boys to tidy up.
I am yes, Hiscox are a little bit out on their own due to their policy wording, I think in the main the rest are what they are, some for sure covered it, some certainly didn't. I'm surprised at Hiscox to be honest who've always had that reputation of paying claims, i'm not an insurance lawyer but been in the game 30+ years and I just don't see how they'll get out of it.
Of course their exposure could be huge.......
The US thats more of an issue as the states retroactively change the law/goal posts, thats going to be interesting.
I agree with your last sentiment, I think a few more will fall by the wayside, it's what the industry is becoming, big is best......
Can't say it's the industry I joined all those years ago, i'm pretty jaded by the last 10 years, might be time for a change. I know the image insurers have to the outside world, but how many have made any money the past 5-10 years, not many!!
I started in the business in 1975. As an outsider these days I can see how it has really changed, though I am still working remotely for a London-based MGA.
Back to Hiscox and I think the issue of reinsurance is a major factor in their current stance. It's extremely doubtful that any reinsurance policy would respond and although we don't know what their exposure is they're running the whole risk.
I don't know what they bought, but number of carriers are claiming against their reinsurance. Aviva has told theirs expect 4-800m USD.
I've reviewed that Hiscox extension and I think they are fucked.
I don't think markets can rely on the fact the Notifiable Diesease extension only works retroactively. It's a flawed mechanism and involves premium taken for no cover. Any new ND will be classed as such after the loss. So its flawed. Think you would get destroyed at Court on that principle alone.
The UK shouldn't be bad-mouthing insurance too much. It is not a waste of time, it's a key way the human race promotes evolution and progress, by insulating the effects of risk to individuals. It is also an industry where the UK remains the world leader for IP and if people stop buying insurance, the effects on this country's balance of payments would be ten fold on the C-19 economic effect.
@Rob7Lee without asking for too much PI, you in the London market?
There's a lot of talk going on at the moment regarding coverage. Hiscox are getting a lot of pressure on their commercial side but are refusing to budge. The whole thing is a very complex issue that I'm sure the media and government will all too happily lay the blame at evil insurers. When things settle down a bit it'll be very interesting to see the fall out as the whole market has been in a state of flux for a few years, no doubt this will clear out even more of the small players just leaving the big boys to tidy up.
I am yes, Hiscox are a little bit out on their own due to their policy wording, I think in the main the rest are what they are, some for sure covered it, some certainly didn't. I'm surprised at Hiscox to be honest who've always had that reputation of paying claims, i'm not an insurance lawyer but been in the game 30+ years and I just don't see how they'll get out of it.
Of course their exposure could be huge.......
The US thats more of an issue as the states retroactively change the law/goal posts, thats going to be interesting.
I agree with your last sentiment, I think a few more will fall by the wayside, it's what the industry is becoming, big is best......
Can't say it's the industry I joined all those years ago, i'm pretty jaded by the last 10 years, might be time for a change. I know the image insurers have to the outside world, but how many have made any money the past 5-10 years, not many!!
I started in the business in 1975. As an outsider these days I can see how it has really changed, though I am still working remotely for a London-based MGA.
Back to Hiscox and I think the issue of reinsurance is a major factor in their current stance. It's extremely doubtful that any reinsurance policy would respond and although we don't know what their exposure is they're running the whole risk.
I don't know what they bought, but number of carriers are claiming against their reinsurance. Aviva has told theirs expect 4-800m USD.
Interesting. BI is only one coverage involved and is possibly minor compared with travel, life, health and contingency and that could be where Aviva will be picking up the majority of their claims, possibly with specific reinsurance. Whatever, direct claims and reinsurance claims are going to be tough. As usual the main winners will be the lawyers!
A large part is from a cover they give in Canada that specifically covers BI for pandemic.
A lot of CAT Reinsurance programmes will respond as they give pretty wide cover, often only restricted by hours clauses.
@Rob7Lee without asking for too much PI, you in the London market?
There's a lot of talk going on at the moment regarding coverage. Hiscox are getting a lot of pressure on their commercial side but are refusing to budge. The whole thing is a very complex issue that I'm sure the media and government will all too happily lay the blame at evil insurers. When things settle down a bit it'll be very interesting to see the fall out as the whole market has been in a state of flux for a few years, no doubt this will clear out even more of the small players just leaving the big boys to tidy up.
I am yes, Hiscox are a little bit out on their own due to their policy wording, I think in the main the rest are what they are, some for sure covered it, some certainly didn't. I'm surprised at Hiscox to be honest who've always had that reputation of paying claims, i'm not an insurance lawyer but been in the game 30+ years and I just don't see how they'll get out of it.
Of course their exposure could be huge.......
The US thats more of an issue as the states retroactively change the law/goal posts, thats going to be interesting.
I agree with your last sentiment, I think a few more will fall by the wayside, it's what the industry is becoming, big is best......
Can't say it's the industry I joined all those years ago, i'm pretty jaded by the last 10 years, might be time for a change. I know the image insurers have to the outside world, but how many have made any money the past 5-10 years, not many!!
I started in the business in 1975. As an outsider these days I can see how it has really changed, though I am still working remotely for a London-based MGA.
Back to Hiscox and I think the issue of reinsurance is a major factor in their current stance. It's extremely doubtful that any reinsurance policy would respond and although we don't know what their exposure is they're running the whole risk.
I don't know what they bought, but number of carriers are claiming against their reinsurance. Aviva has told theirs expect 4-800m USD.
I've reviewed that Hiscox extension and I think they are fucked.
Comments
How many people buy their motor or home insurance through Confused.com etc?
Interesting. BI is only one coverage involved and is possibly minor compared with travel, life, health and contingency and that could be where Aviva will be picking up the majority of their claims, possibly with specific reinsurance. Whatever, direct claims and reinsurance claims are going to be tough. As usual the main winners will be the lawyers!
I don't think markets can rely on the fact the Notifiable Diesease extension only works retroactively. It's a flawed mechanism and involves premium taken for no cover. Any new ND will be classed as such after the loss. So its flawed. Think you would get destroyed at Court on that principle alone.
The UK shouldn't be bad-mouthing insurance too much. It is not a waste of time, it's a key way the human race promotes evolution and progress, by insulating the effects of risk to individuals. It is also an industry where the UK remains the world leader for IP and if people stop buying insurance, the effects on this country's balance of payments would be ten fold on the C-19 economic effect.
A lot of CAT Reinsurance programmes will respond as they give pretty wide cover, often only restricted by hours clauses.
Can't disagree........
1 clerical director
3 manual workers
10 mill employers
5 mill public
last year was £924.16