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2 strikers in 2 weeks - any suggestions - serious ones please ...
Comments
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Aribo improved under Bowyer, Fosu didn't.
Aribo got the gig as the magic feet player where Fosu lost his way and ran down a cul de sac.
Fosu goes to Oxford where Robinson gave him the freedom to be the maverick, he starts scoring goals and gets a move to the Championship.
Mourinho let both Salah and De Bruyne leave Chelsea without going out on loan.
If the "special one" can't spot unique talent and improve players what chance have other managers !0 -
Please Golfie, please, tell me that was you posted that tongue-in-cheek...golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
1 -
So when a player improves it is because of his natural ability and when he goes backwards it is because of the manager. Erm, ok.golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
I think the Bowyer love in is over done around how much he improves players but he and his team clearly have had numerous successes in their time with us.4 -
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!6 -
Your constant stream of negative, untrue, incorrect, defective, mistaken, wrong, unreliable, faulty, false, counterfactual, inexact, unsound, imprecise, inaccurate, anti anything and everything Charlton Athletic posts, are now seriously depressing me.golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.5 -
But your thesaurus like use of synonyms in your retort has made me smile.Covered End said:
Your constant stream of negative, untrue, incorrect, defective, mistaken, wrong, unreliable, faulty, false, counterfactual, inexact, unsound, imprecise, inaccurate, anti anything and everything Charlton Athletic posts, are now seriously depressing me.golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.2 -
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.0 -
Sorry, but I can't be held responsible for your state of mind, or your (un)happinessCovered End said:
Your constant stream of negative, untrue, incorrect, defective, mistaken, wrong, unreliable, faulty, false, counterfactual, inexact, unsound, imprecise, inaccurate, anti anything and everything Charlton Athletic posts, are now seriously depressing me.golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am generally a happy soul. And that takes into account the shit I've had to endure in my personal life of late.
Sorry if you think I'm negative but I just say it as I see it.1 -
Ah, stay strong, golfie.golfaddick said:
Sorry, but I can't be held responsible for your state of mind, or your (un)happinessCovered End said:
Your constant stream of negative, untrue, incorrect, defective, mistaken, wrong, unreliable, faulty, false, counterfactual, inexact, unsound, imprecise, inaccurate, anti anything and everything Charlton Athletic posts, are now seriously depressing me.golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am generally a happy soul. And that takes into account the shit I've had to endure in my personal life of late.
Sorry if you think I'm negative but I just say it as I see it.
We love you really.
3 -
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.5 - Sponsored links:
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Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.0 -
I would say that with loanees you can't really judge. If Gallagher & Leko hadn't have joined us they would have gone somewhere else & probably done just as well. Sliding Doors and all that. Same for Cullen & Beliek. I agree that Derby wouldn't have spent £10m on him if he had stayed in Arsenals reserves but that's just us (or should I say Arsenal) putting him in the shop window.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
All this can be said for players like Mason Mount & Tammy Abrahams too. Or did Bowyer turn them into the players they are now with his mystical powers......from 200 miles away. Or maybe the Derby & Villa managers were just as good at "improvement".
0 -
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?
0 -
The one player he helped more than any other has to be Sarr, he was abysmal for us until Bowyer got hold of him. He got him to use his power and not to be bullied.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?2 -
I do think its hard to quantify a managers impact on teams and it gets blown out of proportion both ways when a team is successful and not successful.0
-
What has mason mount hot to do with anythinggolfaddick said:
I would say that with loanees you can't really judge. If Gallagher & Leko hadn't have joined us they would have gone somewhere else & probably done just as well. Sliding Doors and all that. Same for Cullen & Beliek. I agree that Derby wouldn't have spent £10m on him if he had stayed in Arsenals reserves but that's just us (or should I say Arsenal) putting him in the shop window.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
All this can be said for players like Mason Mount & Tammy Abrahams too. Or did Bowyer turn them into the players they are now with his mystical powers......from 200 miles away. Or maybe the Derby & Villa managers were just as good at "improvement".0 -
So you think Bowyer improved Lockyer? I disagree although perhaps I didn’t know enough about him before he joined us.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?I wasn’t criticising Lockyers performances but I don’t see any evidence Bowyer improved him when his last 10 matches for us were worse than his first 10. I agree with you about the form and quality of teammates, but even so, hardly proof Bowyer improved him.Signing a player and making them a Championship player doesn’t mean anything. My point was there were managers out there who obviously thought Lockyer was ready to step up to Championship level and he was. Improved under Bowyer, I don’t see it.1 -
Great seeing all these striker suggestions3
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Bielik's spelling was amazing by the end, I believe he popped back to Poland after Wembley and won his local spelling beeTodds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
4 -
I suspect we are looking for loans now and they will have to be free ones, or very close to free.
3pm Friday could be start of a busy time.0 -
I think we're there or thereabouts with the permanent signings, anyone else who comes in now is likely to be a loanee...
... Which in the last week of the window is going to mean quite a lot of wheeler-dealing and bluff/double-bluff as everyone is trying to get their targets in before letting anyone go, but their target's club is also trying to get someone in before THEY let anyone go etc etc.
There's going to be a few more in and out I think but probably not til the end of the week.
0 -
Well, we'll have to differ.cafcfan1990 said:
So you think Bowyer improved Lockyer? I disagree although perhaps I didn’t know enough about him before he joined us.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?I wasn’t criticising Lockyers performances but I don’t see any evidence Bowyer improved him when his last 10 matches for us were worse than his first 10. I agree with you about the form and quality of teammates, but even so, hardly proof Bowyer improved him.Signing a player and making them a Championship player doesn’t mean anything. My point was there were managers out there who obviously thought Lockyer was ready to step up to Championship level and he was. Improved under Bowyer, I don’t see it.
I remember seeing our first home match against Stoke last season, which was the first time I'd seen Lockyer.
I wasn't overly impressed ...... plenty of effort, but timing and positional play was all over the place; could have done better for the Stoke goal also.
And yes, he got better in steps ..... there was that incredible goal saving penalty area tackle in the Forest home game a few days later.
Gradually he found his feet and got more and more solid, even after the good run once the injuries started to bite and the results fell away.
Definite improvement and dependability by then. And, yes .... I would credit that to Bowyer and Jacko.
But by last March and after lockdown, he wasn't performing consistantly at all. But then, neither was any other player as the plunge down the table showed.
0 -
Fair enough, happy to disagree. For me, Bowyer hasn't done particularly well in improving defenders. Yes I think when you look at players like Deji and Purrington they're probably not Championship players, but I still don't think we saw any development from them. I've thought for a long time we could really benefit from a defence coach in the set up. I don't want to be seen at criticising Bowyer because that's not my intention. In the interests of balance, I think he's done a fantastic job with the majority of the midfielders that he's brought in, I just don't think it's the same with the defenders. Responsbility of course also lands with the players because he's tried to do the same with Williams who is quite clearly starting to frustrate Bows.Oggy Red said:
Well, we'll have to differ.cafcfan1990 said:
So you think Bowyer improved Lockyer? I disagree although perhaps I didn’t know enough about him before he joined us.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?I wasn’t criticising Lockyers performances but I don’t see any evidence Bowyer improved him when his last 10 matches for us were worse than his first 10. I agree with you about the form and quality of teammates, but even so, hardly proof Bowyer improved him.Signing a player and making them a Championship player doesn’t mean anything. My point was there were managers out there who obviously thought Lockyer was ready to step up to Championship level and he was. Improved under Bowyer, I don’t see it.
I remember seeing our first home match against Stoke last season, which was the first time I'd seen Lockyer.
I wasn't overly impressed ...... plenty of effort, but timing and positional play was all over the place; could have done better for the Stoke goal also.
And yes, he got better in steps ..... there was that incredible goal saving penalty area tackle in the Forest home game a few days later.
Gradually he found his feet and got more and more solid, even after the good run once the injuries started to bite and the results fell away.
Definite improvement and dependability by then. And, yes .... I would credit that to Bowyer and Jacko.
But by last March and after lockdown, he wasn't performing consistantly at all. But then, neither was any other player as the plunge down the table showed.
2 -
I guess you can try and improve players, but perhaps some are already at their limits of capability; that's the limitations of the individual player - after all, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.cafcfan1990 said:
Fair enough, happy to disagree. For me, Bowyer hasn't done particularly well in improving defenders. Yes I think when you look at players like Deji and Purrington they're probably not Championship players, but I still don't think we saw any development from them. I've thought for a long time we could really benefit from a defence coach in the set up. I don't want to be seen at criticising Bowyer because that's not my intention. In the interests of balance, I think he's done a fantastic job with the majority of the midfielders that he's brought in, I just don't think it's the same with the defenders. Responsbility of course also lands with the players because he's tried to do the same with Williams who is quite clearly starting to frustrate Bows.Oggy Red said:
Well, we'll have to differ.cafcfan1990 said:
So you think Bowyer improved Lockyer? I disagree although perhaps I didn’t know enough about him before he joined us.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?I wasn’t criticising Lockyers performances but I don’t see any evidence Bowyer improved him when his last 10 matches for us were worse than his first 10. I agree with you about the form and quality of teammates, but even so, hardly proof Bowyer improved him.Signing a player and making them a Championship player doesn’t mean anything. My point was there were managers out there who obviously thought Lockyer was ready to step up to Championship level and he was. Improved under Bowyer, I don’t see it.
I remember seeing our first home match against Stoke last season, which was the first time I'd seen Lockyer.
I wasn't overly impressed ...... plenty of effort, but timing and positional play was all over the place; could have done better for the Stoke goal also.
And yes, he got better in steps ..... there was that incredible goal saving penalty area tackle in the Forest home game a few days later.
Gradually he found his feet and got more and more solid, even after the good run once the injuries started to bite and the results fell away.
Definite improvement and dependability by then. And, yes .... I would credit that to Bowyer and Jacko.
But by last March and after lockdown, he wasn't performing consistantly at all. But then, neither was any other player as the plunge down the table showed.
Once a player's skillset and ability on the ball has matured, I don't suppose you can teach him new tricks.
The development, apart from increased fitness, surely has to be in the player's mind:
reading the game, anticipation, timing, movement, positional sense, decision making, tactical and game management, etc ?
I believe this is what Bowyer means by 'improving' the player?
0 -
now a long way from discussing 2 potential strikers ..2
-
It's a CL thread, Lincs ...... what did you expect? ha haLincsaddick said:now a long way from discussing 2 potential strikers ..
PS: I had a tip off that we're interested in signing Conor Washington and Omar Bogle. Reliable source.
1 -
Definitely agree with that, shows with someone like Purrington that I just don't think he'll ever cut in the Champ, probably same with Deji. The latter probably not helped by playing in 4/5 different positions last season, and even then without a regular run in any of them.Oggy Red said:
I guess you can try and improve players, but perhaps some are already at their limits of capability; that's the limitations of the individual player - after all, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.cafcfan1990 said:
Fair enough, happy to disagree. For me, Bowyer hasn't done particularly well in improving defenders. Yes I think when you look at players like Deji and Purrington they're probably not Championship players, but I still don't think we saw any development from them. I've thought for a long time we could really benefit from a defence coach in the set up. I don't want to be seen at criticising Bowyer because that's not my intention. In the interests of balance, I think he's done a fantastic job with the majority of the midfielders that he's brought in, I just don't think it's the same with the defenders. Responsbility of course also lands with the players because he's tried to do the same with Williams who is quite clearly starting to frustrate Bows.Oggy Red said:
Well, we'll have to differ.cafcfan1990 said:
So you think Bowyer improved Lockyer? I disagree although perhaps I didn’t know enough about him before he joined us.Oggy Red said:
Whoah, hold on ...... a bit of context, please. Of course, Lockyer looked better in August: he was surrounded by our best 1st XI players in a confident, winning team. Bowyer's confident, winning team.cafcfan1990 said:
Lockyer had other championship interest before joining us so that's bending the truth. He looked better last August than he did in March and then July so I don't think you can say Bowyer improved him.Todds_right_hook said:
Just because you started your reply with “in all honesty” doesn’t make you right.golfaddick said:
Well, in all honesty, I think erhaps you should have put some thought into it.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m pretty sure that someone has stolen your pills that keep you at a miserable state because now you’re just a wum!golfaddick said:
Still scratching my head at this mystical "Bowyer effect". Bowyer himself said that "we bring players in and improve them". Really ? Pray tell me who LB has signed that has improved, both as a player & also in turn improved the team ? About the only one I can think of is Aribo - but then I'm not sure if anyone "improved" him or whether having a run in the team (like almost all of the 2018/19 season) helped his confidence & natural ability.Valley11 said:LargeAddick said:
Think Southend have recently turned down offers from Spurs.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
But would he actually play higher up and could the ‘Bowyer effect’ help swing a deal?MarcusH26 said:
Good shout but would think he'll have offers at higher levels than us.Valley11 said:Charlie Kelman at Southend?Rated by Powell.
Looks a real prospect and would make for a great ‘project’ signing in League 1, to develop as we hopefully climb the leagues.
As for Bonne (as I'm sure people will jump on this & say we bought him for £200k & sold him for £2m so he must have improved as a player) the price increase was mainly down to signing a non league player & selling him onto a Championship team. Just natural progression. LB himself regularly criticised Bonne for missing chances - hardly a ringing endorsement for his "improvement"
Again Gallagher. We gave him a chance (ie, took the punt of taking him on loan) and a run of games in one of the best & most competitive leagues in the world made him shine. Most of that I would say was down to his natural talent. I know Gallagher said in his early interviews that he was learning from LB (getting into the box quicker) but I don't think you can say that we "improved" him.
I take "improvement" to mean that you have an average player that you sign from an average team (say Purrington) and a year later he is bombing down the line, beating a man & slinging in cross after cross. Obviously an "improvement" to the player you signed. Or JFC takes on free-kick duties & starts scoring direct from them time after time. Shows that time on the training field has worked.
I know I'll get slated for all this but I'm still waiting to see these "improved" players making a difference to the team. There has to be a big turn around - starting with winning games from a losing position & scoring more than just once or twice per game.
players that have improved under bowyer
phillips
matthews
lockyer
bielik (spelling)
aribo
gallagher
leko
doughty
grant
taylor
bonne
this list is from the top of my head without even putting thought into it!
How has Bowyer "improved" Matthews ?? He was a Championship player that we had in the Championship. Had played for other teams before us & left us the same player that joined.
I'll give you Grant & Phillips.....maybe Taylor. The rest, like Matthews, had been with us for too short a time to tell. As for Doughty - who knows. You might be able to tell at the end of this season.Adam Matthews was signed from a league 1 club. He clearly got better as the season went on.Would arsenal have sold bielik for £10m before he spent a year on loan with us?
under bowyer, Lockyer turned into a championship defender
who had heard of Gallagher before we had him? If he didn’t have a loan with us last year, would he be at West Brom now? He improved at Swansea too but bowyer got the ball rolling
leko’s decision making was improving!
josh Parker’s confidence levels improved.
is doughty worse than he was this time last year? Were Celtic looking at him in October 2019.
if I had put thought into it, I would have added Cullen to the list, maybe vennings and Davison. Both better than they were a year ago.
the common denominator in all the names above is that they played under bowyer. I think it’s a fair assessment that in 2.5 years as a manager, bowyer has improved a lot of players.
Actually I don't think Bowyer's track record with the defenders is particularly good. Then again I wouldn't expect it to be as he wasn't a defender. He's done really well with midfielders and a couple of strikers.
By March, that team was ravaged by injury, transfer embargo, and the internal chaos caused by the bonkers shenanigans.
Our players weren't even certain they were going to get paid in March. Surprise, surprise the players in that team struggled, Lockyer and all.
Lockyer may well have had other Championship suitors before he signed for Charlton, but he'd never kicked a ball at Championship level until then. Hardly the mark of a Championship player, eh?I wasn’t criticising Lockyers performances but I don’t see any evidence Bowyer improved him when his last 10 matches for us were worse than his first 10. I agree with you about the form and quality of teammates, but even so, hardly proof Bowyer improved him.Signing a player and making them a Championship player doesn’t mean anything. My point was there were managers out there who obviously thought Lockyer was ready to step up to Championship level and he was. Improved under Bowyer, I don’t see it.
I remember seeing our first home match against Stoke last season, which was the first time I'd seen Lockyer.
I wasn't overly impressed ...... plenty of effort, but timing and positional play was all over the place; could have done better for the Stoke goal also.
And yes, he got better in steps ..... there was that incredible goal saving penalty area tackle in the Forest home game a few days later.
Gradually he found his feet and got more and more solid, even after the good run once the injuries started to bite and the results fell away.
Definite improvement and dependability by then. And, yes .... I would credit that to Bowyer and Jacko.
But by last March and after lockdown, he wasn't performing consistantly at all. But then, neither was any other player as the plunge down the table showed.
Once a player's skillset and ability on the ball has matured, I don't suppose you can teach him new tricks.
The development, apart from increased fitness, surely has to be in the player's mind:
reading the game, anticipation, timing, movement, positional sense, decision making, tactical and game management, etc ?
I believe this is what Bowyer means by 'improving' the player?1 -
Fortunately we only need one thenLincsaddick said:now a long way from discussing 2 potential strikers ..
0
