A client of mine made a mistake with their VAT. We've helped them sort it out and wrote to HMRC to disclose the error so everything was done correctly. All very clear and the total liability was broken down into periods across the maximum 4 year period you have to go back, so basically all HMRC had to do was issue the paperwork, demand the money (plus any interest and penalties) and the client would then pay.
Only it's taken them almost a year to do anything about it, despite us chasing them. And now they have finally gotten round to it they can now only go back 4 years from the current date, so 6-9 months of the amount originally owed has fallen away. Which means theyve lost out on approx £170k because they couldn't fill out an internal form for months.
Think how long you would have to work personally to pay £170k of tax, and they have just gone and pissed that up the wall. As a taxpayer myself I find it absolutely disgusting. They are not fit for purpose and haven't been for years (decades/ever?)
Their staff numbers have been decimated over the last half dozen years At a time when there has never been so many individuals and companies obliged to submit returns Your example of £170k tax would pay at least 4 perfectly decent salaries but the crooks slicing chunks off HMRC's staff budget are sticking to their long established Plan A - namely cut, cut and cut deeply again then blame the crippled civil service department for underperformance To further poison their working environment those same crooks fuck about around the edges of tax thresholds/reliefs/allowances creating ever more legislation and backlog, none of which actually raises more tax or stimulates investment. Dealing with the fallout is frustrating indeed and makes no money for anyone
66,000 employees Jan 24, 66,000 employees Jan 18.
I know that it's always the easy thing to point the finger at government and if all else fails, (sing it with me people!) Brexit... but in reality the mediocrity of the kind of people at HMRC, in fairness particularly the leadership, but for that matter almost the entirety of the civil service, is the problem.
No problem solving initiative amongst them. Just point the finger at someone else. It washes with the kind of people they hang around with, but not for me, and for that matter, I don't think it works for most people who rely on their business making a profit to pay the bills...
And if all else fails, blame how inept you are on the government making you awful deliberately.
A client of mine made a mistake with their VAT. We've helped them sort it out and wrote to HMRC to disclose the error so everything was done correctly. All very clear and the total liability was broken down into periods across the maximum 4 year period you have to go back, so basically all HMRC had to do was issue the paperwork, demand the money (plus any interest and penalties) and the client would then pay.
Only it's taken them almost a year to do anything about it, despite us chasing them. And now they have finally gotten round to it they can now only go back 4 years from the current date, so 6-9 months of the amount originally owed has fallen away. Which means theyve lost out on approx £170k because they couldn't fill out an internal form for months.
Think how long you would have to work personally to pay £170k of tax, and they have just gone and pissed that up the wall. As a taxpayer myself I find it absolutely disgusting. They are not fit for purpose and haven't been for years (decades/ever?)
Their staff numbers have been decimated over the last half dozen years At a time when there has never been so many individuals and companies obliged to submit returns Your example of £170k tax would pay at least 4 perfectly decent salaries but the crooks slicing chunks off HMRC's staff budget are sticking to their long established Plan A - namely cut, cut and cut deeply again then blame the crippled civil service department for underperformance To further poison their working environment those same crooks fuck about around the edges of tax thresholds/reliefs/allowances creating ever more legislation and backlog, none of which actually raises more tax or stimulates investment. Dealing with the fallout is frustrating indeed and makes no money for anyone
66,000 employees Jan 24, 66,000 employees Jan 18.
I know that it's always the easy thing to point the finger at government and if all else fails, (sing it with me people!) Brexit... but in reality the mediocrity of the kind of people at HMRC, in fairness particularly the leadership, but for that matter almost the entirety of the civil service, is the problem.
No problem solving initiative amongst them. Just point the finger at someone else. It washes with the kind of people they hang around with, but not for me, and for that matter, I don't think it works for most people who rely on their business making a profit to pay the bills...
And if all else fails, blame how inept you are on the government making you awful deliberately.
Give me strength!
I’m guessing there are more tax payers who need to submit returns now (both individuals and businesses) so having the same number of employees is really a real terms reduction in their ability to meet demand.
I work for the DVSA, when I joined we had 9 Vehicle Examiners to cover London, we now have 3 1/2 .
We have just had a big IT upgrade that people are still getting to grips with.
There have been major cuts to Civil Service head count and unfortunately it is the public that suffer
I agree with what you say, but I just got my new passport and was amazed at how good the service was. It took just a fortnight from application to arrival and the comms in-between was first class, including a reminder to send back my old passport for cancellation, confirmation that my application had been approved, notification that they'd ordered a new one to be printed, and notification when it was sent. That says to me that when properly resourced and managed our Civil Service will do a first class job.
I work for the DVSA, when I joined we had 9 Vehicle Examiners to cover London, we now have 3 1/2 .
We have just had a big IT upgrade that people are still getting to grips with.
There have been major cuts to Civil Service head count and unfortunately it is the public that suffer
I agree with what you say, but I just got my new passport and was amazed at how good the service was. It took just a fortnight from application to arrival and the comms in-between was first class, including a reminder to send back my old passport for cancellation, confirmation that my application had been approved, notification that they'd ordered a new one to be printed, and notification when it was sent. That says to me that when properly resourced and managed our Civil Service will do a first class job.
I work for the DVSA, when I joined we had 9 Vehicle Examiners to cover London, we now have 3 1/2 .
We have just had a big IT upgrade that people are still getting to grips with.
There have been major cuts to Civil Service head count and unfortunately it is the public that suffer
I agree with what you say, but I just got my new passport and was amazed at how good the service was. It took just a fortnight from application to arrival and the comms in-between was first class, including a reminder to send back my old passport for cancellation, confirmation that my application had been approved, notification that they'd ordered a new one to be printed, and notification when it was sent. That says to me that when properly resourced and managed our Civil Service will do a first class job.
A client of mine made a mistake with their VAT. We've helped them sort it out and wrote to HMRC to disclose the error so everything was done correctly. All very clear and the total liability was broken down into periods across the maximum 4 year period you have to go back, so basically all HMRC had to do was issue the paperwork, demand the money (plus any interest and penalties) and the client would then pay.
Only it's taken them almost a year to do anything about it, despite us chasing them. And now they have finally gotten round to it they can now only go back 4 years from the current date, so 6-9 months of the amount originally owed has fallen away. Which means theyve lost out on approx £170k because they couldn't fill out an internal form for months.
Think how long you would have to work personally to pay £170k of tax, and they have just gone and pissed that up the wall. As a taxpayer myself I find it absolutely disgusting. They are not fit for purpose and haven't been for years (decades/ever?)
Their staff numbers have been decimated over the last half dozen years At a time when there has never been so many individuals and companies obliged to submit returns Your example of £170k tax would pay at least 4 perfectly decent salaries but the crooks slicing chunks off HMRC's staff budget are sticking to their long established Plan A - namely cut, cut and cut deeply again then blame the crippled civil service department for underperformance To further poison their working environment those same crooks fuck about around the edges of tax thresholds/reliefs/allowances creating ever more legislation and backlog, none of which actually raises more tax or stimulates investment. Dealing with the fallout is frustrating indeed and makes no money for anyone
66,000 employees Jan 24, 66,000 employees Jan 18.
I know that it's always the easy thing to point the finger at government and if all else fails, (sing it with me people!) Brexit... but in reality the mediocrity of the kind of people at HMRC, in fairness particularly the leadership, but for that matter almost the entirety of the civil service, is the problem.
No problem solving initiative amongst them. Just point the finger at someone else. It washes with the kind of people they hang around with, but not for me, and for that matter, I don't think it works for most people who rely on their business making a profit to pay the bills...
And if all else fails, blame how inept you are on the government making you awful deliberately.
Give me strength!
I’m guessing there are more tax payers who need to submit returns now (both individuals and businesses) so having the same number of employees is really a real terms reduction in their ability to meet demand.
Actually, no.
More and more personal tax returns are done online now, which works the tax out for you automatically. And almost all VAT returns (with very few exceptions) are submitted digitally and paid electronically.
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
It’s appears it’s a problem with modernisation of the HMRC function. Whilst my own personal experience of interactions with DVLA and Passport office show me they have modernised (contact and requests for services), HMRC are just getting worse. Their website is incomprehensible to use and forget about contacting them with a query.
It needs stronger management, leadership and modernisation for what is conceivably the most important government body (as without correct revenue incoming we are all screwed).
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
They are the ultimate skivers.
You do realise that there isn't actually enough office space for them to all go in every day, don't you? Not that it's a particularly desirable thing anyway.
I refer you to the accompanying notes:
Comparisons between departments
The data shouldn’t be used to compare departments. The factors determining the numbers of employees working in the workplace, such as the differing operating models and the service they deliver, will vary across departments. The different data collection methods used by departments will also make comparisons between departments invalid.
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
They are the ultimate skivers.
Good to see that the Department for Technology found a way of blocking “the man” keeping tabs on them!! 😉
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
A client of mine made a mistake with their VAT. We've helped them sort it out and wrote to HMRC to disclose the error so everything was done correctly. All very clear and the total liability was broken down into periods across the maximum 4 year period you have to go back, so basically all HMRC had to do was issue the paperwork, demand the money (plus any interest and penalties) and the client would then pay.
Only it's taken them almost a year to do anything about it, despite us chasing them. And now they have finally gotten round to it they can now only go back 4 years from the current date, so 6-9 months of the amount originally owed has fallen away. Which means theyve lost out on approx £170k because they couldn't fill out an internal form for months.
Think how long you would have to work personally to pay £170k of tax, and they have just gone and pissed that up the wall. As a taxpayer myself I find it absolutely disgusting. They are not fit for purpose and haven't been for years (decades/ever?)
What may not be really understood is that HMRC no longer have to calculate tax and collect it. Overtime the taxpayer has become HMRC’s tax collector and has the responsibility of interpreting tax law and correctly declaring and paying what is due. Companies have to spend a fortune on accountants if they have any hope of calculating correct tax returns.
In addition the only way that many taxes can be paid is by being subjected to a compulsory sign up to the appropriate HMRC online system to upload data in a prescribed format. Companies and businesses then have to pay to change their payroll, pensions and accounting systems to be able to comply so I don’t have much sympathy for hard pressed HMRC staff bemoaning frequent changes to legislation. You should see it from the other side too.
So yes, HMRC has been cut back and that’s because the role of HMRC staff has dramatically changed - the public now do most of the work. All HMRC have to do is help us when things go wrong.
Ive always found doing my online return a ballache but generally not too bad once youve collected all the info, which is often the worst part. Mind you, until recently I was a chartered accountant so somewhat more used to this nonsense than most people. Where it went wrong it was often because of human intervention at HMRC - they sent me a refund of tax I knew I wasnt entitled to, having worked out what they must have done, then demanded it back with interest about three months later. I'd paid the amount due according to their machine's calculation, and checked it and found it to be correct. But evidently some dipshit functionary thought they knew better.
Also when they made a tax refund to the wrong bank account due to their own keying error, they insisted on waiting until the incorrect payment was returned to them before they would issue the correct amount to me. Why? Not my fault! You havent paid me, if the money went somewhere else, that's your problem, you incompetent lazy fecks. That reasoning would certainly not work if the boot was on the other foot.
If HMRC were a race horse they would surely have been shot by now! As a practising chartered accountant, and having to deal with them on a daily basis, is very frustrating. Even the dedicated agent helpline is a joke - you often still have to hang on for ages and then rarely get to speak with anyone who has the authority to do anything. Sending an email to another department seems to be the default answer now. I do have some sympathy for HMRC staff, who generally try to be helpful. It is just that they are often poorly trained and working within a broken management structure. Having so many of them "working" from home doesn't help. I am also sure I read somewhere that they have a very bad staff sickness record too, much of it stress related.
I was once introduced to a friend of a friend who worked as a HMRC policy advisor. I jokingly replied that I didn't think they had any policies and just made it up as they went along. He didn't see the funny side!
If HMRC were a race horse they would surely have been shot by now! As a practising chartered accountant, and having to deal with them on a daily basis, is very frustrating. Even the dedicated agent helpline is a joke - you often still have to hang on for ages and then rarely get to speak with anyone who has the authority to do anything. Sending an email to another department seems to be the default answer now. I do have some sympathy for HMRC staff, who generally try to be helpful. It is just that they are often poorly trained and working within a broken management structure. Having so many of them "working" from home doesn't help. I am also sure I read somewhere that they have a very bad staff sickness record too, much of it stress related.
I was once introduced to a friend of a friend who worked as a HMRC policy advisor. I jokingly replied that I didn't think they had any policies and just made it up as they went along. He didn't see the funny side!
I work for the DVSA, when I joined we had 9 Vehicle Examiners to cover London, we now have 3 1/2 .
We have just had a big IT upgrade that people are still getting to grips with.
There have been major cuts to Civil Service head count and unfortunately it is the public that suffer
I agree with what you say, but I just got my new passport and was amazed at how good the service was. It took just a fortnight from application to arrival and the comms in-between was first class, including a reminder to send back my old passport for cancellation, confirmation that my application had been approved, notification that they'd ordered a new one to be printed, and notification when it was sent. That says to me that when properly resourced and managed our Civil Service will do a first class job.
I agree with most of this. I got my passport fairly quickly.
Comments
I know that it's always the easy thing to point the finger at government and if all else fails, (sing it with me people!) Brexit... but in reality the mediocrity of the kind of people at HMRC, in fairness particularly the leadership, but for that matter almost the entirety of the civil service, is the problem.
No problem solving initiative amongst them. Just point the finger at someone else. It washes with the kind of people they hang around with, but not for me, and for that matter, I don't think it works for most people who rely on their business making a profit to pay the bills...
And if all else fails, blame how inept you are on the government making you awful deliberately.
Give me strength!
Actually, no.
More and more personal tax returns are done online now, which works the tax out for you automatically. And almost all VAT returns (with very few exceptions) are submitted digitally and paid electronically.
You know about paying class 2 national insurance contributions while working abroad in order to keep your eligibility for state pension?
You can currently back pay a few years, too
And "only" the HQ but it sets the culture. How come 98% of the Cabinet Office staff can get into work but there at the bottom of the list, is dear old HMRC with only 54% of their staff bothering to pitch up.
They are the ultimate skivers.
I refer you to the accompanying notes:
Comparisons between departments
The data shouldn’t be used to compare departments. The factors determining the numbers of employees working in the workplace, such as the differing operating models and the service they deliver, will vary across departments. The different data collection methods used by departments will also make comparisons between departments invalid.
HMRC will close tax helpline for half the year
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68606722I was once introduced to a friend of a friend who worked as a HMRC policy advisor. I jokingly replied that I didn't think they had any policies and just made it up as they went along. He didn't see the funny side!
But it was the wrong colour. 😕