As Williams chose to trigger the contract extension after relegation, would he be using a large chunk of our wage budget? Looks to me like Bowyer didn’t want him to stay, Williams chose to stay and now Bowyer wouldn’t mind getting rid in January to free up wages for a player he wants.
I have no idea how much JW is on, but I would bet its considerably more than 2.5k a week, or what ever the average is. If he goes in January could you bring in a better player on 2.5k a week?
Highly unlikely imo
Dunno, you could argue that Scott Fraser's style was very similar on Wednesday night... Would pick up the ball and run with it, sometimes drawing a free kick but always looking to make a Albie Morgan style pass so had more end product to him - Trouble is he's only just joined MK Dons so doubt he'd move so soon, thankfully joined after the Salary Cap so wont be above it either, the other issue is we only saw one performance where he was on his game, how often is he not at that level
But Fraser was playing further forward than Williams is normally allowed to do with us. He can certainly do everything Fraser was doing, including, when playing for Wales, scoring goals.(I'm no excusing his poor defensive work though, btw).
Fraser looked good Wednesday because for whatever reason we failed to adjust to deal with him. I'm always wary though of getting a thing about players based on one good game they had against us. I think you might be old enough to remember Ronnie Moore and Tony Towner. In 1984 under the useless Ken Craggs we played Rotherham at the Valley. Towner and Moore absolutely tore us up, it was 4-1 but could have been 8. We eventually signed both of them (we all chipped in to buy Moore). He was so-so, but Tony Towner was absolutely feckin' useless.
Nah both before my time, in '84 I was too busy shitting, eating and crying
Although no different to 2020 really
Oh sorry mate, take it as a compliment to the maturity beyond your years that you bring to topics like this :-)
Anyway, it was actually 1-5. And Rotherham were little better than mid-table.
What a miserable damp grey day at The Valley, that was. I seem to remember we went 1-0 ahead, Prague, before our total collapse at the back.
Tony Towner seemed to be able to beat his man at will, make for the byline and there was Ronnie Moore on the end of the cross or causing havoc in our box. Classic wing play by Towner that day, so credit where it's due.
Rotherham had made a poor start to that season, I believe - but were on a good run that saw them start to climb into the top half of the table.
Oh sure. We all went home feeling wistful for the days of Paddy Powell and Killer (even if Moore was a completely different type of striker). Turned out Towner couldn't do that week in week out. I don't recall he managed it in even one week with us. Probably we made it easy for them that day. It was a performance down there with the 6-1 at home to Leeds in the PL. But then that's the other thing. Wasn't Mark Aizelwood, at left back, the hapless victim of Towner that day? We all went home feeling about him, useless, get rid, etc. Within a year, new manager, new position, he became one of our best players.
What's the point of it all? I guess that, we fans know jack shit, and sometimes we should remind ourselves of that, especially before demanding managers get the boot. (while pretending not to actually be demanding that, on this thread)
Aizlewood was the left back that day & either then or soon after stuck his fingers up to people on the east terrace giving him stick, & then became one our best players & captain.
What is it about this recent generation of Charlton players that requires us to make constant excuses for their poor performances.
Probably because this is the 1st season for about 7 or 8 years that success is both expected and demanded by the fans? However realistic or not you think that is.
What is it about this recent generation of Charlton players that requires us to make constant excuses for their poor performances.
Probably because this is the 1st season for about 7 or 8 years that success is both expected and demanded by the fans? However realistic or not you think that is.
Just my opinion, but I think we have bit of a grace period - people should be happy that we have a clubs to support and a decent owner. Of course we want to go up, but first and foremost we need stability. If that means treading water in this god awful league for a season, then so be it. Think we got a bit carried away and spoilt with the decent run and clean sheets.
For the first time in a long time we have a bit of normality - maybe Bowyer feels under pressure working in those circumstances- ones he isn’t used to. He is reacting and saying things that we haven’t heard from him before. Regardless of what he thinks of players, he needs to keep him opinions behind closed doors. It isn’t going to help a player if he is subbed off for a bullshit reason. Bowyer still has a lot to learn. He is still in credit, but running out quickly.
I am coming around to accepting that this may be a season of consolidation. If we go up / make the okay offs, fantastic, but given where we have been, I am okay with that if we can get the blocks in place ready to steamroll next season. Eg Powell's first half season, Bowyer's first half season
I am coming around to accepting that this may be a season of consolidation. If we go up / make the okay offs, fantastic, but given where we have been, I am okay with that if we can get the blocks in place ready to steamroll next season. Eg Powell's first half season, Bowyer's first half season
Honestly this league is dreadful, we really should be in a position to at least make the playoffs.
I am coming around to accepting that this may be a season of consolidation. If we go up / make the okay offs, fantastic, but given where we have been, I am okay with that if we can get the blocks in place ready to steamroll next season. Eg Powell's first half season, Bowyer's first half season
I’ll be disappointed if we don’t at least reach the okay off final, sounds intriguing...
I am coming around to accepting that this may be a season of consolidation. If we go up / make the okay offs, fantastic, but given where we have been, I am okay with that if we can get the blocks in place ready to steamroll next season. Eg Powell's first half season, Bowyer's first half season
I’ll be disappointed if we don’t at least reach the okay off final, sounds intriguing...
We’ll have to play better then we did yesterday to be deemed okay...
Ha ha .... you can always make stats mean what ever you like.
But in those stats we see a few things:
1) No mention of the key role who plays the 'assist the assist' ....... numerous times we've created goalscoring chances that just wouldn't have happened without Williams involvement. Hey, we even saw it yesterday at Shrewsbury in the build up to our goal, didn't we? But the stats don't even mention it.
And of course the majority of goalscoring chances are missed; no credit there either for creating the chance.
2) Last season, 5 assists in the first 5 or 6 games. Why? Williams starting games, playing in his own position ....... alongside the right players: the dynamic Gallagher, and Taylor's off ball movement up front. Moral: For crying out loud, play Williams in his own specialist position and set up around him.
3) Stats never tell the full story.
Plus, at Wembley, coming on on 60 mins, playing a similar role to Fraser on Wednesday night. Took the game by the scruff of the neck and put the fear of God into everyone associated with Sunderland in that stadium. They knew what he was capable of. Stopping him doing it was a different matter. The only thing they could think of was to foul him. He was a key figure in that outcome.
I agree with you both, stats do not tell all, however, considering the amount of game time, that has to be a poor return.
End product has never been a strong point, gaining fouls is his strongest suit.
Likely irrelevant now, right or wrong Bowyer has him toasted for sure, as I said nice bloke, gone in the New Year.
What is it about this recent generation of Charlton players that requires us to make constant excuses for their poor performances.
Probably because this is the 1st season for about 7 or 8 years that success is both expected and demanded by the fans? However realistic or not you think that is.
Just my opinion, but I think we have bit of a grace period - people should be happy that we have a clubs to support and a decent owner. Of course we want to go up, but first and foremost we need stability. If that means treading water in this god awful league for a season, then so be it. Think we got a bit carried away and spoilt with the decent run and clean sheets.
For the first time in a long time we have a bit of normality - maybe Bowyer feels under pressure working in those circumstances- ones he isn’t used to. He is reacting and saying things that we haven’t heard from him before. Regardless of what he thinks of players, he needs to keep him opinions behind closed doors. It isn’t going to help a player if he is subbed off for a bullshit reason. Bowyer still has a lot to learn. He is still in credit, but running out quickly.
Problem with the wage cap is that we have quite a few players counting as the divisional average. For me when you build a decent squad (which I think Bowyer and Gallen have), you have to take advantage.
I think we all know what Bowyer has had to endure. Building a decent squad so late was extremely difficult. However he’s done the hard bit and on paper we’re definitely capable of reaching top 6. Bowyer now needs to get the best of those players, which in my opinion his style of play and tactics aren’t doing. All well and good moaning we’re not scrapping, but not all our players are suited by that. We should have the ability to get the ball down and dominate a large chunk of teams in this division.
This squad is good enough for the playoffs with the right manager.
Bowyer hasn’t become a bad manager overnight. He’s just not getting it right at the moment. Playing 442 yesterday with Gilbey LM and JFC RM was just bizarre.
Ha ha .... you can always make stats mean what ever you like.
But in those stats we see a few things:
1) No mention of the key role who plays the 'assist the assist' ....... numerous times we've created goalscoring chances that just wouldn't have happened without Williams involvement. Hey, we even saw it yesterday at Shrewsbury in the build up to our goal, didn't we? But the stats don't even mention it.
And of course the majority of goalscoring chances are missed; no credit there either for creating the chance.
2) Last season, 5 assists in the first 5 or 6 games. Why? Williams starting games, playing in his own position ....... alongside the right players: the dynamic Gallagher, and Taylor's off ball movement up front. Moral: For crying out loud, play Williams in his own specialist position and set up around him.
3) Stats never tell the full story.
Plus, at Wembley, coming on on 60 mins, playing a similar role to Fraser on Wednesday night. Took the game by the scruff of the neck and put the fear of God into everyone associated with Sunderland in that stadium. They knew what he was capable of. Stopping him doing it was a different matter. The only thing they could think of was to foul him. He was a key figure in that outcome.
I agree with you both, stats do not tell all, however, considering the amount of game time, that has to be a poor return.
End product has never been a strong point, gaining fouls is his strongest suit.
Likely irrelevant now, right or wrong Bowyer has him toasted for sure, as I said nice bloke, gone in the New Year.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
I think Bowyer has this right. It may seem extreme to haul him Williams off then explain why to the press but the information as to why Bowyer took that action would have been pretty obvious to all, Bowyer chose to nail any rumour by his action. Don't understand why we are defending Jonny Williams, he wasn't good enough to break into the side early season and I don't see any sign that he is good enough now or as Bowyer feels, Jonny is going through the motions rather than being the player we all know he can be.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
I don't like one thing you did on the pitch so am going to sub you. All feels a bit School football team to me. It's Bows job to shout and ensure it does not happen again.
Bows and Dyer had the oddist on field spat I've seen. I'm starting to see behaviours of somebody who I might have hastily thought had fully matured, from that young(er) wild one.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
I'm more concerned about the dressing room to be honest. Not necessarily that one player feels a little upset, more so that the players start to lose respect for Bowyer. When that happens there will be no coming back.
I don't like one thing you did on the pitch so am going to sub you. All feels a bit School football team to me. It's Bows job to shout and ensure it does not happen again.
Well, knowing Bowyer like we do I think it's fair to say that he DID shout at him, don't you?
Bottom line seems to be that Bowyer doesn't see Williams as someone he can rely on. Particularly when the chips are down. Ultimately that's his call and he lives or dies by his decisions - not if anyone else feels offended on Williams behalf.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
Honestly I called JW Twice before he got dragged. It was obvious as a coach IMO. However, you need to address other issues like Pratley falling over, being on his backfoot all game, VERY experienced players not working hard, giving the ball away, controlling the ball like a 7 year old, making very head scratching backwards passes when there is room to move into.
We were shit, shit shit, don't call out JW or AM, it's your tactics for 12months why we are in this mess
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
We were shit, shit shit, don't call out JW or AM, it's your tactics for 12months why we are in this mess
What "mess"?
Genuinely not having a pop, but we have been a shit show for years now and finally when we manage to cobble a squad together in two weeks people have suddenly turned on the manager after a few bad results.
It's fair to say performances haven't been spectacular - even when we were on the winning run - but seriously, the last few years have surely taught is that we are in no way in a "mess" right now.
Come on fellas, get some perspective. If this type of things carries on then by all means go mental. But people throwing their toys out the pram now is surely the type of self-entitled behaviour we laugh at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal fans displaying.
Maybe I'm just more patient than the average fan. Maybe Russell Slade had more of an impact on me than I thought.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
But the clear point to anyone that watched that game yesterday was that Williams did make a difference when he came on. His past record was not relevant at that stage. He had energy, was chasing around and was positive. Apart from Maatson no-one else either had the ability, pace or endeavour to try to drive us forward. He clearly did that for the goal. That’s why the substitution was wrong. It damaged the collective. It damaged ultimately our ability to win the game. Their goal was ugly but we got what we deserved after that substitution. We invited them on time and time again. And all because of trying to prove a point. If we had a similar player to come on and play that role then by all means hook him. But don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. Changing shape to prove a point and not because it was tactically the right thing to do is very poor. I’d also add that Washington was also clearly spent by that time the poor sod chasing back the whole time and starved of any service. He literally could not run anymore. And we risked him also getting injured by keeping him on. A manager needs to keep a cool head in these situations.
If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week.
If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
We were shit, shit shit, don't call out JW or AM, it's your tactics for 12months why we are in this mess
What "mess"?
Genuinely not having a pop, but we have been a shit show for years now and finally when we manage to cobble a squad together in two weeks people have suddenly turned on the manager after a few bad results.
It's fair to say performances haven't been spectacular - even when we were on the winning run - but seriously, the last few years have surely taught is that we are in no way in a "mess" right now.
Come on fellas, get some perspective. If this type of things carries on then by all means go mental. But people throwing their toys out the pram now is surely the type of self-entitled behaviour we laugh at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal fans displaying.
Maybe I'm just more patient than the average fan. Maybe Russell Slade had more of an impact on me than I thought.
The mess I'd say we are in mate is probably since Hull away (and before that Derby Home) we've been shit.
Yes, 100% injuries played a part in a dreadful run to lockdown and I support that young inexperienced side with judases around the squad completely.
We come back from lockdown and get a couple of good results but we were dire, absolute dire and a team of players (that IMO were good enough to stay up and would have under experienced manager)
Brum got one point in their last 7 games to keep them up (or something like that).
We don't attack sides, we are better player for player but don't know what to do if we can't make the opposition play the way we want them to play.
Anyone can check through my posts in my supptot for Bow's and the team the past 2/3 years but I've lost faith, honestly I'd listen to Bows talk all day, watch any programme he's on but what we are churning up right now is dreadful IMO.
There is no leadership, even though we should have 3 on that pitch.
Pratley was a better player without experienced pros around him last season so what's the difference this season?
That's not my job that's Bows to work out and for the last 10 games we have looked anything but a promotion side.
As Williams chose to trigger the contract extension after relegation, would he be using a large chunk of our wage budget? Looks to me like Bowyer didn’t want him to stay, Williams chose to stay and now Bowyer wouldn’t mind getting rid in January to free up wages for a player he wants.
Yes, someone that is capable of playing a whole game would be an improvement, especially if they are not too scared to tackle as well.
Comments
What's the point of it all? I guess that, we fans know jack shit, and sometimes we should remind ourselves of that, especially before demanding managers get the boot. (while pretending not to actually be demanding that, on this thread)
End product has never been a strong point, gaining fouls is his strongest suit.
Likely irrelevant now, right or wrong Bowyer has him toasted for sure, as I said nice bloke, gone in the New Year.
Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.
To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?
If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off.
The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.
One players feelings don't trump the team collective.
Bows and Dyer had the oddist on field spat I've seen. I'm starting to see behaviours of somebody who I might have hastily thought had fully matured, from that young(er) wild one.
Bottom line seems to be that Bowyer doesn't see Williams as someone he can rely on. Particularly when the chips are down. Ultimately that's his call and he lives or dies by his decisions - not if anyone else feels offended on Williams behalf.
However, you need to address other issues like Pratley falling over, being on his backfoot all game, VERY experienced players not working hard, giving the ball away, controlling the ball like a 7 year old, making very head scratching backwards passes when there is room to move into.
We were shit, shit shit, don't call out JW or AM, it's your tactics for 12months why we are in this mess
Genuinely not having a pop, but we have been a shit show for years now and finally when we manage to cobble a squad together in two weeks people have suddenly turned on the manager after a few bad results.
It's fair to say performances haven't been spectacular - even when we were on the winning run - but seriously, the last few years have surely taught is that we are in no way in a "mess" right now.
Come on fellas, get some perspective. If this type of things carries on then by all means go mental. But people throwing their toys out the pram now is surely the type of self-entitled behaviour we laugh at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal fans displaying.
Maybe I'm just more patient than the average fan. Maybe Russell Slade had more of an impact on me than I thought.
Good structured return @off_it
The mess I'd say we are in mate is probably since Hull away (and before that Derby Home) we've been shit.
Yes, 100% injuries played a part in a dreadful run to lockdown and I support that young inexperienced side with judases around the squad completely.
We come back from lockdown and get a couple of good results but we were dire, absolute dire and a team of players (that IMO were good enough to stay up and would have under experienced manager)
Brum got one point in their last 7 games to keep them up (or something like that).
We don't attack sides, we are better player for player but don't know what to do if we can't make the opposition play the way we want them to play.
Anyone can check through my posts in my supptot for Bow's and the team the past 2/3 years but I've lost faith, honestly I'd listen to Bows talk all day, watch any programme he's on but what we are churning up right now is dreadful IMO.
There is no leadership, even though we should have 3 on that pitch.
Pratley was a better player without experienced pros around him last season so what's the difference this season?
That's not my job that's Bows to work out and for the last 10 games we have looked anything but a promotion side.
Hit list?
We've suddenly been transported to some weird world, where Lee Bowyer is a hit man. Wtaf.