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England Cricket 2021 (excluding Ashes)

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  • Bit of a get out of jail that. Now drop sibley, play hameed and hopefully pope will be fit for the remaining tests to replace Lawrence. 
    Completely disagree regarding Sibley. IMO, he was a big reason that Root was able to get his 100... He came in facing an old ball because DS (& Burns, to a lesser extent) saw off the tricky period on Friday eve and sat morning. Its a shame Crawley didn't capitalise on Sibley's work. I'd drop Crawley for Hameed and (I know this won't happen) Buttler for Pope, although it'll be Lawrence who drops out. I cant say he's done enough to avoid being dropped, however. 
  • There is an interesting article on Wisden website. It suggests England should leave Crawley out at the moment for his own good. There is no doubt he has tremendous potential but is sadly out of form. His 27 in the first innings is only his second score above 20 this year in red ball cricket. He needs time to regroup his game and his thoughts. Continue playing him risks continued failure this summer and would almost make picking him for Australia untenable. Ironically his game could be more suited to Australian pitches and less swinging Kookaburra ball ( like David Warner). Hammeed deserves a chance and can slot in at 3. 
  • redman said:
    There is an interesting article on Wisden website. It suggests England should leave Crawley out at the moment for his own good. There is no doubt he has tremendous potential but is sadly out of form. His 27 in the first innings is only his second score above 20 this year in red ball cricket. He needs time to regroup his game and his thoughts. Continue playing him risks continued failure this summer and would almost make picking him for Australia untenable. Ironically his game could be more suited to Australian pitches and less swinging Kookaburra ball ( like David Warner). Hammeed deserves a chance and can slot in at 3. 
    Yes he needs getting back to county cricket, but there are no county games until the 30th August anyway

    If dropped by England now, I assume he'd just return to the London Spirit...
  • redman said:
    There is an interesting article on Wisden website. It suggests England should leave Crawley out at the moment for his own good. There is no doubt he has tremendous potential but is sadly out of form. His 27 in the first innings is only his second score above 20 this year in red ball cricket. He needs time to regroup his game and his thoughts. Continue playing him risks continued failure this summer and would almost make picking him for Australia untenable. Ironically his game could be more suited to Australian pitches and less swinging Kookaburra ball ( like David Warner). Hammeed deserves a chance and can slot in at 3. 
    Yes he needs getting back to county cricket, but there are no county games until the 30th August anyway

    If dropped by England now, I assume he'd just return to the London Spirit...
    That shows the biggest problem for English cricket and why, if nothing is changed, test cricket will become a farce for England. We will slip further and further behind India, New Zealand and Australia. Fans will become disillusioned and ECB will have destroyed the golden egg
  • Sounds like Haseeb Hameed will be playing on Thurday with Moeen Ali returning too! Special Covid arrangements will have to be made for Moeen Ali though because he's been playing in the mickey mouse comp tonight in preparation for his Test recall
  • How comes India can concentrate a lot of their season with the IPL but also have a top rated test team - when England can’t ? 
  • Sounds like Haseeb Hameed will be playing on Thurday with Moeen Ali returning too! Special Covid arrangements will have to be made for Moeen Ali though because he's been playing in the mickey mouse comp tonight in preparation for his Test recall
    Gutted for Leach, but Moeen balances the side much better. 
  • I've got a spare for Day 2 this Friday in the Lower Grandstand £135.
    It's an electronic ticket on my phone, along with mine.
    I suppose it's possible to print off & Lord's site says this is acceptable, but would be a faff & easier to meet there if anyone is interested.
  • I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


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  • How comes India can concentrate a lot of their season with the IPL but also have a top rated test team - when England can’t ? 
    Because, as I mentioned previously they have a sound technical base, honed by thousand of hours doing just that. And their players do not take part in any other franchises apart from the IPL whereas a lot of ours do the Vitality, the IPL, the Big Bash and now the Hundred. India also try to ensure that there is no conflict between the IPL and international cricket unlike for our players who have been missing England matches to play in the IPL.
  • I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


    In the short term yes. But counties have no incentive whatsoever to produce red ball batsmen because there is no money in the County Championship which is why we are now witnessing a total lack of top order batsmen - I would defy anyone to name, in the history of English Test cricket, a top 3 with an average of just 30 (the combined average of Burns, Sibley and Crawley). In fact, I would challenge anyone to find a top 3 from any of the major Test playing nations to have a top order to match that low. 

    Even in County age group 3 day cricket the challenge placed upon batsmen is not to "bat time" but to find scoring areas against good bowling. To have a game plan. Counties simply cannot afford to have red ball only batsmen on their books. But they can afford to have white ball only batsmen hence the one message being delivered to all young cricketers. 
  • edited August 2021
    How comes India can concentrate a lot of their season with the IPL but also have a top rated test team - when England can’t ? 
    Because, as I mentioned previously they have a sound technical base, honed by thousand of hours doing just that. And their players do not take part in any other franchises apart from the IPL whereas a lot of ours do the Vitality, the IPL, the Big Bash and now the Hundred. India also try to ensure that there is no conflict between the IPL and international cricket unlike for our players who have been missing England matches to play in the IPL.
    To be fair the clash this year between England and the IPL was caused by the late scheduling of the England New Zealand series, which was after the players had been given permissions to play in the IPL

    Covid has been part of the problem (but certainly not the full reason) but the international calendar is ridiculous now, with separate Test and white ball tours randomly scheduled into the calendar, often at late notice. England in 2021 have this schedule -
    Sri Lanka (A) - 2 Tests
    India (A) - 4 Tests
    India (A) - 3 ODI, 5 T20
    NZ (H) - 2 Tests
    Sri Lanka (H) - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    Pakistan (H)  - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    India (H) - 5 Tests
    Bangladesh (A) - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    Pakistan (A)  - 2 T20
    T20 World Cup
    Then
    Australia (A) - 5 Tests in 2021/22
    And
    West Indies (A) - 3 Tests and 5 T20s in early 2022!

    So within 12 months England will have played series against just about everyone except South Africa! Multi format players could be playing for England 10 months of the year, even without franchise cricket
  • edited August 2021
    How comes India can concentrate a lot of their season with the IPL but also have a top rated test team - when England can’t ? 
    Because, as I mentioned previously they have a sound technical base, honed by thousand of hours doing just that. And their players do not take part in any other franchises apart from the IPL whereas a lot of ours do the Vitality, the IPL, the Big Bash and now the Hundred. India also try to ensure that there is no conflict between the IPL and international cricket unlike for our players who have been missing England matches to play in the IPL.
    To be fair the clash this year between England and the IPL was caused by the late scheduling of the England New Zealand series, which was after the players had been given permissions to play in the IPL

    Covid has been part of the problem (but certainly not the full reason) but the international calendar is ridiculous now, with separate Test and white ball tours randomly scheduled into the calendar, often at late notice. England in 2021 have this schedule -
    Sri Lanka (A) - 2 Tests
    India (A) - 4 Tests
    India (A) - 3 ODI, 5 T20
    NZ (H) - 2 Tests
    Sri Lanka (H) - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    Pakistan (H)  - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    India (H) - 5 Tests
    Bangladesh (A) - 3 ODI, 3 T20
    Pakistan (A)  - 2 T20
    T20 World Cup
    Then
    Australia (A) - 5 Tests in 2021/22
    And
    West Indies (A) - 3 Tests and 5 T20s in early 2022!

    So within 12 months England will have played series against just about everyone except South Africa! Multi format players could be playing for England 10 months of the year, even without franchise cricket
    But as KP is at pains to point out the reason why he wasn't allowed to play wasn't any clash but because the England players need a rest from playing both international and franchise cricket - with England refusing to allow him to take part in the IPL because they weren't prepared to be held to ransom.

    With the CC now starting at the beginning of April there will be an inevitable overlap with the IPL - and the likes of Billings will be carrying drinks in India when, if he really has aspirations as he has maintained to be a Test cricketer, he should be training and playing county red ball at that time.
  • I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


    In the short term yes. But counties have no incentive whatsoever to produce red ball batsmen because there is no money in the County Championship which is why we are now witnessing a total lack of top order batsmen - I would defy anyone to name, in the history of English Test cricket, a top 3 with an average of just 30 (the combined average of Burns, Sibley and Crawley). In fact, I would challenge anyone to find a top 3 from any of the major Test playing nations to have a top order to match that low. 

    Even in County age group 3 day cricket the challenge placed upon batsmen is not to "bat time" but to find scoring areas against good bowling. To have a game plan. Counties simply cannot afford to have red ball only batsmen on their books. But they can afford to have white ball only batsmen hence the one message being delivered to all young cricketers. 
    West Indies v England, Gros Islet, 2019 
    Burns  
    Jennings  
    Denley  
    Average 25.2 

    Australia v England Melbourne, 1978-79 
    Wood 
    Darling  
    Hughes  
    Average 29.6 
  • Chizz said:
    I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


    In the short term yes. But counties have no incentive whatsoever to produce red ball batsmen because there is no money in the County Championship which is why we are now witnessing a total lack of top order batsmen - I would defy anyone to name, in the history of English Test cricket, a top 3 with an average of just 30 (the combined average of Burns, Sibley and Crawley). In fact, I would challenge anyone to find a top 3 from any of the major Test playing nations to have a top order to match that low. 

    Even in County age group 3 day cricket the challenge placed upon batsmen is not to "bat time" but to find scoring areas against good bowling. To have a game plan. Counties simply cannot afford to have red ball only batsmen on their books. But they can afford to have white ball only batsmen hence the one message being delivered to all young cricketers. 
    West Indies v England, Gros Islet, 2019 
    Burns  
    Jennings  
    Denley  
    Average 25.2 

    Australia v England Melbourne, 1978-79 
    Wood 
    Darling  
    Hughes  
    Average 29.6 
    You had to go back over 40 years to prove it has been done before. 
    The point remains our top three are a bit of a joke.
  • Talk is Moeen in and Bairstow to bat 3. 

    I'm happy about 1 not the other.
  • Chizz said:
    I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


    In the short term yes. But counties have no incentive whatsoever to produce red ball batsmen because there is no money in the County Championship which is why we are now witnessing a total lack of top order batsmen - I would defy anyone to name, in the history of English Test cricket, a top 3 with an average of just 30 (the combined average of Burns, Sibley and Crawley). In fact, I would challenge anyone to find a top 3 from any of the major Test playing nations to have a top order to match that low. 

    Even in County age group 3 day cricket the challenge placed upon batsmen is not to "bat time" but to find scoring areas against good bowling. To have a game plan. Counties simply cannot afford to have red ball only batsmen on their books. But they can afford to have white ball only batsmen hence the one message being delivered to all young cricketers. 
    West Indies v England, Gros Islet, 2019 
    Burns  
    Jennings  
    Denley  
    Average 25.2 

    Australia v England Melbourne, 1978-79 
    Wood 
    Darling  
    Hughes  
    Average 29.6 
    You had to go back over 40 years to prove it has been done before. 
    The point remains our top three are a bit of a joke.
    No, I didn't have to.  It was an interesting challenge that I wanted to take up.  The first example is less than three years ago.  And the second example is to show the depths to which Australia's batting line up plummeted in 1977-79, by way as a contrast to their dominance during the subsequent several decades.  

    The current top three isn't working.  The problems with them are easy to diagnose.  Sibley isn't good enough, Burns' technique is abysmal and Crawley is batting in the wrong position.  Crawley should open, with Burns if he can sort out his St Vitus dance; Sibley should be replaced in the squad with a cricketer. 
  • Talk is Moeen in and Bairstow to bat 3. 

    I'm happy about 1 not the other.
    Bairstow at three is an absolute joke. 
  • Talk is Moeen in and Bairstow to bat 3. 

    I'm happy about 1 not the other.
    You mean bairstow bowled for 3? 
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  • edited August 2021
    Chizz said:
    I've been doing a fair bit of reflecting on cricket the last few weeks. It very much feels as though we have reached the end and there is no going back. Test cricket is gone. The 50 over game will survive for a while but will eventually also become a second rate format. 

    to be honest I just feel pretty lucky that I got to grow up in what looking back was a real golden era for Cricket in general but also England Cricket and County Cricket.

    That period from the introduction of T20 in 2002 to around 2012-2013 was truly a golden age. All 3 formats managed to co-exist and be world class. The county game was thriving - I remember sell out crowds at the Oval for 40 and 50 over games The county championship was producing international quality players for all 3 formats (even if England were a little late to the game in working out how to play 50 over cricket). We had the 2005 Ashes as the first test series I remember, 2009 another great Ashes then the 2010 World T20 the 2010/11 Ashes away from home and reaching number 1 in the world. A test side with World class players in every slot. Once in a live time maverick talents like KP (no matter what I think of how his time in the game ended) the likes of Cook, Strauss, Broad Swann and Anderson. County Stalwarts like Ramprakash, world class overseas players (arriving for more than 4 games).

    There will still be moments of class like the 2019 world cup and I'm sure the upcoming T20 world cup but I cant see Cricket ever being the same again. 

    The suits at the ECB have sold the game for their own greed. There has been more and more cricket played every year until players are unable to carry on (see Ben Stokes) and various formats have been completely marginalised (see county champ in April and October, 50 over game as secondary comp). Years of history and tradition written off for a quick buck. 


    Maybe - or will we see players who play one form or the other - Red ball cricketers or white ball cricketers , and no real interchanging between the squads. 


    In the short term yes. But counties have no incentive whatsoever to produce red ball batsmen because there is no money in the County Championship which is why we are now witnessing a total lack of top order batsmen - I would defy anyone to name, in the history of English Test cricket, a top 3 with an average of just 30 (the combined average of Burns, Sibley and Crawley). In fact, I would challenge anyone to find a top 3 from any of the major Test playing nations to have a top order to match that low. 

    Even in County age group 3 day cricket the challenge placed upon batsmen is not to "bat time" but to find scoring areas against good bowling. To have a game plan. Counties simply cannot afford to have red ball only batsmen on their books. But they can afford to have white ball only batsmen hence the one message being delivered to all young cricketers. 
    West Indies v England, Gros Islet, 2019 
    Burns  
    Jennings  
    Denley  
    Average 25.2 

    Australia v England Melbourne, 1978-79 
    Wood 
    Darling  
    Hughes  
    Average 29.6 
    Let's make it even harder and add "and had as many as 111 opportunities to bat (as Burns, Sibley and Crawley have now had)" - Burns, Jennings and Denly had batted 41 times prior to that Windies Test and Wood, Darling and Hughes had batted 33 times at the point of the Melbourne Test.

  • Bairstow at 3 would be ludicrous. You could just about get away with it if we had Hayden/Langar or Greenidge/Haynes opening, so that he'd be strolling out at 80-1, but chances are he'd be strolling out at 8-1 to face the new ball

    Sir Geoffrey knows him as well as anyone, and he's constantly said he's a number 6 not a top order player
  • Saqib Mahmood added to the squad as Broad is a doubt.

    I'm hoping he & Hameed play, promising young players that are worth giving a go, Mahmood could be a good pace option in the Ashes given no Archer & Wood is unlikely to play back-to-back Tests.
  • Talk is Moeen in and Bairstow to bat 3. 

    I'm happy about 1 not the other.
    You mean bairstow bowled for 3? 
    He’d still review it.
  • edited August 2021
    Jimmy is a doubt as well apparently, so potentially missing Anderson, Archer, Broad, Stokes & Woakes.
  • Jimmy is a doubt as well apparently, so potentially missing Anderson, Archer, Broad, Stokes & Woakes.
    and Stone who impressed me.
  • Mahmood, Robinson, Wood, Curran, Ali hopefully
  • Jimmy is a doubt as well apparently, so potentially missing Anderson, Archer, Broad, Stokes & Woakes.
    and Stone who impressed me.
    Really concerning how brittle Stone seems to be, can't ever string a run of games together without breaking down.
  • We need more variation in the bowling attack. Its clear they arent backing Leach though God knows why..... I would pick him but I'm happy with Moeen coming back. Robinson looks a find so I would keep him. In the absence of Stokes/Woakes I'd probably leave Curran there. One of Mahmood or Wood need to play as a genuine pace option and one of Broad/Anderson depending on fitness.

    Hameed has to come in for Crawley. No idea on who bats 3. Either Leave Sibley to open and bat Hameed/Burns at 3 (which I think they will do) alternatively one of Lawrence/Bairstow or Pope will have to bat 3 which you all know I'm not a fan of but it can be done as a short term solution.

    Burns
    Sibley
    Hameed
    Root
    Pope
    Buttler
    Moeen
    Curran
    Robinson
    Wood/Mahmood
    Anderson/Broad
  • Overton for Curran imo. Just a much, much better bowler
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