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England Cricket 2021 (excluding Ashes)

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  • This won’t be popular with the Surrey folk on here but Pope seemed to get out in stupid ways this series. I would consider Lawrence over him at 6 at this stage. 

    Foakes didn’t do enough with the bat to deserve to keep buttler out.
    Pope is having to play a role that is foreign to him and he doesn't know whether to stick or twist. It is his shot selection that is invariably getting him out. I did predict that he had as much chance of not being successful at 6 as he would at batting at 3 and that if he did struggle down the orrder he would be under pressure for his place. He is technically sound and has the highest First Class average of any English qualified player (50.40 including 9 hundreds and 12 fifties from 72 innings) but has batted like a rabbit in headlights on this tour. For that reason I would give him that spot at 3 and just tell him to go out and bat - and by that I mean bat as the batsman you are and not the batsman you think you should be.

    Lawrence showed enough application to demonstrate he can be a Test player which is why I suggest he should be given an opportunity at 5 - he's batting four times at 3 and didn't look comfortable there scoring just 53 in total. Down the order he averaged 39.

    Stokes - the one thing he proved here was that he can still bowl. Unfortunately, his batting has gone backwards for completely the opposite reasons to Pope. He knows how to finish and destroy an opposition, but as time has gone on and with his earlier exposure, not by just batting at 5 but by the fact that we are 3 down sooner rather than later, he is not batting with any freedom. So I would drop him down one.

    Foakes is the best keeper in England. But here's the dilemma - he has been considered as a good player of spin but vulnerable to top pace. This tour has done everything to reaffirm his keeping but nothing to reinforce his batting  - 78 runs at an average of 15.6 is well, very average. This was his chance to grab with the position with both hands but he didn't and the person to benefit most will be Buttler. The latter's keeping has improved, especially standing back and let's face it he isn't going to have to take too many stumpings/catches with our wealth of spinners and given the probably nature of the tracks both here and in Australia. Buttler also has one thing that Foakes doesn't - he is someone who can take a game away from the opposition in a matter of an hour or so.

    So for NZ:

    1. Burns/Sibley
    2. Crawley
    3. Pope
    4. Root
    5. Lawrence
    6. Stokes
    7. Buttler
    8. Woakes/Curran (S)
    9. Archer/Wood/Stones
    10. Leach/Virdi
    11. Anderson/Broad



    Agree largely with you here, though at home I'd be tempted by Anderson & Broad rather than one or the other.

    The reason I went that way is because Woakes or Curran plus Anderson and Broad are too similar and I wanted someone with that bit of extra pace especially with the Ashes in mind. If we replace Woakes or Curran with Wood/Stone/Archer then the tail starts at 8 - the prospect of four bunnies in the shape of Archer, Broad, Anderson and Virdi means that, at 6 down, there would be next to no support for the likes of Stokes or Buttler.
  • This won’t be popular with the Surrey folk on here but Pope seemed to get out in stupid ways this series. I would consider Lawrence over him at 6 at this stage. 

    Foakes didn’t do enough with the bat to deserve to keep buttler out.
    Pope is having to play a role that is foreign to him and he doesn't know whether to stick or twist. It is his shot selection that is invariably getting him out. I did predict that he had as much chance of not being successful at 6 as he would at batting at 3 and that if he did struggle down the orrder he would be under pressure for his place. He is technically sound and has the highest First Class average of any English qualified player (50.40 including 9 hundreds and 12 fifties from 72 innings) but has batted like a rabbit in headlights on this tour. For that reason I would give him that spot at 3 and just tell him to go out and bat - and by that I mean bat as the batsman you are and not the batsman you think you should be.

    Lawrence showed enough application to demonstrate he can be a Test player which is why I suggest he should be given an opportunity at 5 - he's batting four times at 3 and didn't look comfortable there scoring just 53 in total. Down the order he averaged 39.

    Stokes - the one thing he proved here was that he can still bowl. Unfortunately, his batting has gone backwards for completely the opposite reasons to Pope. He knows how to finish and destroy an opposition, but as time has gone on and with his earlier exposure, not by just batting at 5 but by the fact that we are 3 down sooner rather than later, he is not batting with any freedom. So I would drop him down one.

    Foakes is the best keeper in England. But here's the dilemma - he has been considered as a good player of spin but vulnerable to top pace. This tour has done everything to reaffirm his keeping but nothing to reinforce his batting  - 78 runs at an average of 15.6 is well, very average. This was his chance to grab with the position with both hands but he didn't and the person to benefit most will be Buttler. The latter's keeping has improved, especially standing back and let's face it he isn't going to have to take too many stumpings/catches with our wealth of spinners and given the probably nature of the tracks both here and in Australia. Buttler also has one thing that Foakes doesn't - he is someone who can take a game away from the opposition in a matter of an hour or so.

    So for NZ:

    1. Burns/Sibley
    2. Crawley
    3. Pope
    4. Root
    5. Lawrence
    6. Stokes
    7. Buttler
    8. Woakes/Curran (S)
    9. Archer/Wood/Stones
    10. Leach/Virdi
    11. Anderson/Broad



    Ok you can have your way re Pope...thought Crawleys reputation improved when he was out of the side ..I don't think there's much to choose from between the 3 openers although I think Crawley has more potential so for me burns and Crawley to open..if Pope is going to bat 3 that is where Surrey should play him from start of season 

    Agree with everything else provided virdi plays consistently for Surrey...also think stones deserves another go soonest 
  • Time for me to have my say on the number 3 debate. 

    I would recommend the article below from Wisden. It ends: It’s tough to say now who should be England’s long-term, or even short-term No.3. But if they continue to pick players for the role because they avert a difficult decision elsewhere rather than for their suitability for the role, the cycle that got them into this mess in the first place will surely continue.

    https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/unfortunately-there-are-no-simple-solutions-to-englands-no-3-problem?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1615137621

    My view is that we spent so long looking for a number 3 that when we finally find one in Crawley we want to go and push him to open - a position where is record is significantly poorer (in test and first class cricket) and he has said he is less comfortable. For me we should be building the side around him at 3. Burns is in poor form and I said he should be dropped in india, it was completely the right call. But should a poor series away from home, in particularly tough conditions against the best side in the world when no batsman did remotely well, impact the make up of the side in English conditions? Well yes but I'd put less weight on it than usual. At the end of the English summer we were all happy we had a settled top 3. As long as Burns is in reasonable form in the early county champ matches then first test I would have him in the side. 

    This summer should be spend thinking about the ashes. Foakes isn't one I think will do well down under and having not grabbed his chance this winter (he looked more comfortable against the spinners than most IMO but was left with the tail every time) I am backing Buttler (despite this I will make the point that Buttler is allowed the "excuse" that he is always left batting with the tail and he averages 20 more at 6 than 7, whilst Foakes has batted more than half his England innings at * and until that last test had a higher average).That leaves a direct shootout for the number 6 slot between Pope and Lawrence. Both are prospects and I am happy with either. I think the England setup are of the view that Pope has a higher ceiling and so they will stick with him. I'm sure Lawrence will get a game at some point in the summer due to form or injury, he is firmly first reserve now. Again with the ashes in mind I would want to see one of the quicks (Archer, Wood, Stone) involved every match as we are going to need all of them in Aus. Leach is one of the few players to come out of the winter with any credit so he plays. Rotate Broad and Anderson.

    Burns
    Sibley
    Crawley
    Root
    Stokes
    Pope/Lawrence
    Buttler
    Woakes/Curran
    Archer/Wood/Stone
    Leach
    Broad/Anderson

  • Yeah there was footage of a Sikh van delivering provisions for the homeless and Virdi was one of the people doing it, wasn't even remarked upon at the time I think! Not that being a good bloke means you should play for England, but being a good bloke who can land it and turn it puts you in the elite company of Jack Leach and pretty much nobody else 
  • An instructive video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjkmgQfvUs

    Virdi loses little to Ashwin by way of comparison. THAT SAID, Ashwin's BATTING is, weirdly, what stands out - in a game where nobody could play spin properly (although, Surrey's Jamie Smith looks a prospect), he scored quite a lot of runs for one freak strangle dismissal
  • Leuth said:
    An instructive video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjkmgQfvUs

    Virdi loses little to Ashwin by way of comparison. THAT SAID, Ashwin's BATTING is, weirdly, what stands out - in a game where nobody could play spin properly (although, Surrey's Jamie Smith looks a prospect), he scored quite a lot of runs for one freak strangle dismissal
    Smith certainly is a prospect. There was a point where he was looking at moving on as Foakes and Pope were our keepers. With Pope's injuries and call ups and Foakes spending all of last summer in the England bubble but not, playing Smith has had the opportunity with gloves and bat. He has leapfrogged Ryan Patel and Will Jacks (long format only). 
  • Chizz said:
    Coach: I think we're going to have to sharpen up our fielding a bit 

    Players: What? Why?  

    Coach: Well let's take a look at the video analysis... 


    There's a lot to enjoy in that video but my favourite is the batsman, who has just half limped a 3rd run as his pad is flapping everywhere, turning around, seeing the fielder with the ball 6ft from the stumps and thinking "Yeah, I'll run for a 4th."
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  • Chizz said:
    Coach: I think we're going to have to sharpen up our fielding a bit 

    Players: What? Why?  

    Coach: Well let's take a look at the video analysis... 


    There's a lot to enjoy in that video but my favourite is the batsman, who has just half limped a 3rd run as his pad is flapping everywhere, turning around, seeing the fielder with the ball 6ft from the stumps and thinking "Yeah, I'll run for a 4th."
    It's a Renaissance painting.  There's just so much in it.  

    • The fact the batsman are wearing different coloured pads 
    • Number 4 (Kapil Dev lookalike) twice fails to effect a simple runout, but then stands, double teapot, staring at the bowler.  Twice. 
    • The heatmap of the umpire. 
    • The square leg fielder who wanders in and then stands, like Christ the Redeemer with his arms outstretched as if in incredulity at the incompetence of his team-mates.  And then fails to stop the ball as it rolls up the pitch towards him. 
    • The batsman who, having hit the ball, played out the two tropes that every cricketer has drummed into them from an early age: 'always run on a misfield' and 'jog the first three runs in case you need to run a fourth'. 
    • And the fact that no-one apologised to the bowler who single-handedly seems to be keeping his side in the game (they're going at ten an over; he'd bowled eight balls for five runs). 
    But for me, the best bit is the commentary, which ends with a big sigh and '...I can't believe this'.
  • Are the T20’s back to Sky ? 
  • MrOneLung said:
    Are the T20’s back to Sky ? 
    It is - they have the ODIs & T20s
  • Bollox. 
  • Don’t have sky sports. Was hoping to watch on 4 
  • edited March 2021
    MrOneLung said:
    Are the T20’s back to Sky ? 
    It is - they have the ODIs & T20s
    I have sky, but for the growth of the game I think that's disappointing  

    If anything, I think it would've been better for the test series to be on sky & the T20s & ODIs to be on terrestrial television 
  • archer starts with a wicket maiden
  • Kohli holes out for 0, 3-2.
  • rashid gets his bunny, kohli out for 0
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  • 48/4 from 10
  • 105/6 from 18, superb from England with the ball and in the field.

    Archer 4 overs, 3 for 23
  • The Sussex boys are making this easy for the batsmen
  • 124-7 from 20 overs

    Good stuff from England...
  • That's as close to the perfect bowling and fielding performance as you'll see, absolutely superb 
  • Excellent bowling by England.
  • Great bowling performance. This is more or less our best team but we will need that second spinning option so Moeen needs to come in for Curran even more so if Rashid is going to bowl two overs in the Power Play - pace of Archer and Wood plus Jordan the finisher with Stokes as back up.

    This is probably a strongest batting line up too. Just a bit concerned about the form of Roy but also how capable he is when the opposition opens with a quality spinner.
  • edited March 2021
    Watching this demolition after the Test series is A LOT of fun. Indian fans in the stands veryyyyy quiet.
  • edited March 2021
    72-1, 8 overs

    Buttler gone for 28 from 24. Roy still there on 44 from 24.
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