Something to bare in mind is that Wi-fi speeds are not as reliable or as fast as Ethernet (cat 5/6 cable), Wi-fi 6 devices are just hitting the market now which gives a possible speed of 1gig. But even if your router is Wi-fi 6 enabled your devices wont be, the Wi-fi chip in my iPhone 11 is faster than the one in my two/three year old Macbook.
I have worked for a couple of ISP's over the years in tech support supporting ADSL etc, personally I am with TalkTalk (used to work for them), the router that they supplied needed rebooting every month as they are basic. They tend to run out of memory so I bought myself a better router and my problems went away, now I'm not expecting many people to spend nearly £300 on a router but that is exactly what I did.
Happy to offer advice.
Sounds like you are recommending upgrading the router that is supplied by the provider. Which one did you go for? Thanks.
Buying a router can be tricky, they won't necessarily improve your broadband speed but buying better hardware will indeed improve your local network which mine has. This isn't your normal consumer router, it has an interface and has a very handy app set-up and was up within minutes. The configuration I wanted behind the scenes took a bit of time, this router allows for different devices to be on different networks.
Whichever router you buy will have it's pros and cons, I always recommend doing your own reading and making your own conclusion on what you read.
Well I'm paying for Gigabit and getting the same speeds as I did for regular.
Old speeds about 10mbps wireless, new about 10-50mbps - Old advertised speed 67mbps wired, 25-35 wireless, new advertised speed 1000mbps wired, 200-400 wireless...
Upload speeds are hardly mentioned - if you have more than one person doing video calling in your household, you need 10+ Mbps upload. Also - wired will always beat wireless. Cat5e is much cheaper than a router upgrade.
Upload speeds are hardly mentioned - if you have more than one person doing video calling in your household, you need 10+ Mbps upload. Also - wired will always beat wireless. Cat5e is much cheaper than a router upgrade.
When I start to do home improvements, I'll be running cat 6 everywhere.
Well I'm paying for Gigabit and getting the same speeds as I did for regular.
Old speeds about 10mbps wireless, new about 10-50mbps - Old advertised speed 67mbps wired, 25-35 wireless, new advertised speed 1000mbps wired, 200-400 wireless...
I feel like this is a little silly...
What speeds are you getting at the router? That's the important part, you need to know if the line itself is delivering. If it is then you know that the problem is something local to you.
Well I'm paying for Gigabit and getting the same speeds as I did for regular.
Old speeds about 10mbps wireless, new about 10-50mbps - Old advertised speed 67mbps wired, 25-35 wireless, new advertised speed 1000mbps wired, 200-400 wireless...
I feel like this is a little silly...
What speeds are you getting at the router? That's the important part, you need to know if the line itself is delivering. If it is then you know that the problem is something local to you.
The router itself is lagging behind massively, their support guy said wirelessly I should be seeing 200-400. Which I was on day 1, when using my mobile next to the router. All the speeds are from the same phone, same seated position.
As it's 2021, shy of unplugging my Mac from my garden office, walking it down to the house and finding an extension lead to plug it in and test the speed to the router I have to go by the wireless speed.
They've said they're going to change the channel width and to re-start the router and re-test, so once I have finished work today I will be doing that.
So I had a techie from my Mac suppliers connected via Team Viewer yesterday, and he did a very good job, we looked into the setting and considered all the possible issues, main findings were:
- there's nothing wrong with the modem/router. It's able to handle speeds of up to 900mbps and is behaving normally - He used the Netspot app recco'ed by @Rob7Lee (rather than the one reccoed by @Big_Bad_World because he fuckin' hates Millwall it seemed set up for Macs, but either will help). What it showed is that we don't have any interference from neighbours on the same Wifi channel; this didn't surprise me but it's important to do the test in case your provider tries to throw the issue at you as a possible reason. - He detected "packet drops" (did I get that right?) of up to 2.5%, which he said could indicate line instability, but unfortunately in this country would not be enough to kick them into doing something.
His conclusion is that we are working with very old legacy phone lines that this monopoly operator has no big incentive to improve, so variable line speed and momentary drops are something I'd just have to live with. Further, in this country the law is very generous to operators about the % of claimed line speed they need to deliver. At best it is 50%, it might even be as bad as 20%. I will look into that, but even if they are breaking the law, these fuckers are not going to re-lay all the lines in the area just for me.
He recommended me to use the 5Ghz wifi network when watching the streamed TV. It's no more than 4m from the router and in clear sight
Because the line in is a bit unstable, he doesn't believe using an ethernet connection will help. And he said that if the VPN slows the speed down further at the point of use, that's the VPN's fault, and neither an ethernet cable nor the higher line speed will address that :-(
So that's probably me done here, for what it's worth, thanks to all who have offered advice and I'm glad to see the thread is of use to more people.
So I had a techie from my Mac suppliers connected via Team Viewer yesterday, and he did a very good job, we looked into the setting and considered all the possible issues, main findings were:
- there's nothing wrong with the modem/router. It's able to handle speeds of up to 900mbps and is behaving normally - He used the Netspot app recco'ed by @Rob7Lee (rather than the one reccoed by @Big_Bad_World because he fuckin' hates Millwall it seemed set up for Macs, but either will help). What it showed is that we don't have any interference from neighbours on the same Wifi channel; this didn't surprise me but it's important to do the test in case your provider tries to throw the issue at you as a possible reason. - He detected "packet drops" (did I get that right?) of up to 2.5%, which he said could indicate line instability, but unfortunately in this country would not be enough to kick them into doing something.
His conclusion is that we are working with very old legacy phone lines that this monopoly operator has no big incentive to improve, so variable line speed and momentary drops are something I'd just have to live with. Further, in this country the law is very generous to operators about the % of claimed line speed they need to deliver. At best it is 50%, it might even be as bad as 20%. I will look into that, but even if they are breaking the law, these fuckers are not going to re-lay all the lines in the area just for me.
He recommended me to use the 5Ghz wifi network when watching the streamed TV. It's no more than 4m from the router and in clear sight
Because the line in is a bit unstable, he doesn't believe using an ethernet connection will help. And he said that if the VPN slows the speed down further at the point of use, that's the VPN's fault, and neither an ethernet cable nor the higher line speed will address that :-(
So that's probably me done here, for what it's worth, thanks to all who have offered advice and I'm glad to see the thread is of use to more people.
Not sure how much you're willing to pay for a good internet service, but Elon Musk has a company called Starlink. Been kind of following it, not for my own benefit but out of interest. I think equipment is about £500 and then a monthly fee of £90 ish.
Anyway, it's low orbit satellites providing the internet connectivity. The trial started in the USA and there are now a couple of trialists in the UK and in other countries, where you are located determines whether you can get on to their 'beta'. Some of the speeds people have been getting are impressive. 150mb down and 20 - 50mb up, with the odd blip here and there. Latency is decent at around 30ms, latency is important too.
They are launching more satellites, but it may be something you want to look into?
Regarding packet loss.
It's not a good thing for you're internet to have, especially with video / audio as a dropped packet means missing data. For website browsing if a packet is dropped it's just sent again, you cant do that with video or audio and it's streaming and needs the packet to be there.
We are with Trooli here... fantastic speeds down and up really impressed with their service. Its FTTP and I'm getting 325Mbps down and 180Mbps up on Wi-Fi about 10 meters away from the router. Ping is 4ms. They are rolling their service out in a big way over the next two years. I believe Greenhithe is the next village to be installed.
Thanks, I'll keep an eye on Starlink. I can't imagine this country features high on Musk's priorities, but it might be something for the future.
So you would regard 2.5% packet loss as a level that would cause problems with streaming? It might explain some of my buffering, and drops when listening to music on my Sonos machine?
Thanks, I'll keep an eye on Starlink. I can't imagine this country features high on Musk's priorities, but it might be something for the future.
So you would regard 2.5% packet loss as a level that would cause problems with streaming? It might explain some of my buffering, and drops when listening to music on my Sonos machine?
Video and audio are in realtime, so yes any sort of packet loss is going to cause issues. You need all the packets to be in order, the packets cannot be replaced. In general web browsing, if a packet is dropped the packet can be requested again so it is resent.
Regarding Starlink, it's a global network. Might not be available now but it's worth registering here: https://www.starlink.com
We’ve just upgraded to Virgin’s 1Gb broadband. We’re getting around 400-500 Mbs when we’re all online. I think it’s worth it to stop all the aggro associated with not quite having sufficient bandwidth.
And we use Netgear’s Orbi mesh system which is incredible compared to the TP-Link extenders we used to use.
We’ve just upgraded to Virgin’s 1Gb broadband. We’re getting around 400-500 Mbs when we’re all online. I think it’s worth it to stop all the aggro associated with not quite having sufficient bandwidth.
And we use Netgear’s Orbi mesh system which is incredible compared to the TP-Link extenders we used to use.
Mesh networks are the best way to go, installed one for my mum at her new house and no complaints. Using extenders is problematic
We've just switched over to BT FTTP after being on Virgin since 2014 in BR5. Virgin worked brilliantly and we were regularly getitng 300mb down until lockdown.
Various calls to Virgin over the last 6 months resulted in Virgin admitting they had a capacity issue in BR5 so at peak times, speeds would be throttled.
So we signed up to BT FTTP and it was installed yesterday. Annoyingly, my Linksys Velop mesh has to be put in bridge mode to enable it to work with the BT smart hub (as we signed up to BT Digital Voice too!) but it has made a massive difference already.
900 down now, upload around 150 and they guarantee the minimum down will be 450. About £10pm more than Virgin were charging us but makes a world of difference to the two most important things (i) my wifes work video calls; and (ii) my streaming of football (although Spurs are f'ing shite!)
Ping around 2-3ms and jitter around 0.5-0.6ms. Loss 0% according to speedtest.
Very much an early adopter of BT FTTP in our post code but wonder what it will be like when the Virgin users all jump ship.
Just got the above and has boosted speeds throughout the house and reaches the office at the end of the garden with speeds of 100mbps but around 350 everywhere else.
Potentially should have gone ahead and got the TP link Deco M5's for £20 less, but much of a muchness I think.
So back to my low-tech case I will now have a deep-tech modem question, I wonder if anyone can help with it...
Here is where we have ended up. The technician from the company which owns the line concluded that my modem works as it should. However the problem of packet drop (cc2.3%) is not the fault of the line per se but that the modem is not capable of optimising the line because it does not offer 'vectoring'. I don't have a good understanding of what vectoring means in this case, obviously...The bad news according to this guy was that hardly any modems on the Czech market are capable of vectoring.
However I got the technician from Vodafone (who sell the contract to me) to talk to the 1st technician. He agreed that vectoring is the issue, but maintained that Vodafone have a modem which will indeed address the vectoring issue.
Might anyone know what this is all about...vectoring? My current modem is an Asus D66L, quality but 4-5 years old now. Cost me around £100. Don't know what the Vodafone one is yet, but apparently costs about £80. I'll buy it, if I can really be sure it will stabilise the output on the wifi around the house (I'm persuaded that line speed in is not in fact my key problem)
That's very good, BBW. thanks a lot. They did throw the "crosstalk" word at me as they were explaining it, and old copper wires bundled together are exactly what we are lumped with here.
Might need to investigate the new modem, then. Just didn't want to be duped into it.
I’ve just bought and installed a mesh network package (Deco X60) and it must be one of the best bits of ‘tech’ I ever purchased.
I live in a fairly small 30’s terrace but was getting nowhere near the speed I pay for (350mbps) from Virgin Media. I also had a number of black spots where very little WiFi signal reached.
Since installing the mesh system - I am getting 370mbps via wireless in every room - right down to the end of the garden.
It was fairly expensive but worth every penny. I would not hesitate to recommend.
I’ve just bought and installed a mesh network package (Deco X60) and it must be one of the best bits of ‘tech’ I ever purchased.
I live in a fairly small 30’s terrace but was getting nowhere near the speed I pay for (350mbps) from Virgin Media. I also had a number of black spots where very little WiFi signal reached.
Since installing the mesh system - I am getting 370mbps via wireless in every room - right down to the end of the garden.
It was fairly expensive but worth every penny. I would not hesitate to recommend.
Mesh is the best. It really does change absolutely everything.
I installed a mesh system in a flat I lived in (Tenda) and one in the house I live in now (Eero), having bought repeaters and the difference is quite simply unbelievable.
Don't waste money on repeaters, buy mesh or you will end up regretting it.
By the by, the IT guy at work told me that mesh started in the music industry as a way of relaying sound. He might be misinformed though, as he is an IT guy by day and a musician by night and might have just merged the two.
I know a guy that used to work for BT in their broadband department he always said quoted speeds on broadband were to the green box. Then it goes through lower grade technology into your house reducing its quality.
He left to join a new firm called Trooli, a broadband firm based in Kingshill, so I using his staff discount joined them. It is like changing from dial up to broadband again, we have three teenagers and never suffer drop offs or slowness anymore. (I am not on commission) The downside is that it is a bit like Sky they bring the wires into your house and attach a box to your wall to run it all off.
Comments
I went for this one: Ubiquiti UniFi Dream Machine All-in-One Router: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
Buying a router can be tricky, they won't necessarily improve your broadband speed but buying better hardware will indeed improve your local network which mine has. This isn't your normal consumer router, it has an interface and has a very handy app set-up and was up within minutes. The configuration I wanted behind the scenes took a bit of time, this router allows for different devices to be on different networks.
Whichever router you buy will have it's pros and cons, I always recommend doing your own reading and making your own conclusion on what you read.
Old speeds about 10mbps wireless, new about 10-50mbps - Old advertised speed 67mbps wired, 25-35 wireless, new advertised speed 1000mbps wired, 200-400 wireless...
I feel like this is a little silly...
Also - wired will always beat wireless. Cat5e is much cheaper than a router upgrade.
As it's 2021, shy of unplugging my Mac from my garden office, walking it down to the house and finding an extension lead to plug it in and test the speed to the router I have to go by the wireless speed.
They've said they're going to change the channel width and to re-start the router and re-test, so once I have finished work today I will be doing that.
- there's nothing wrong with the modem/router. It's able to handle speeds of up to 900mbps and is behaving normally
- He used the Netspot app recco'ed by @Rob7Lee (rather than the one reccoed by @Big_Bad_World because he fuckin' hates Millwall it seemed set up for Macs, but either will help). What it showed is that we don't have any interference from neighbours on the same Wifi channel; this didn't surprise me but it's important to do the test in case your provider tries to throw the issue at you as a possible reason.
- He detected "packet drops" (did I get that right?) of up to 2.5%, which he said could indicate line instability, but unfortunately in this country would not be enough to kick them into doing something.
His conclusion is that we are working with very old legacy phone lines that this monopoly operator has no big incentive to improve, so variable line speed and momentary drops are something I'd just have to live with. Further, in this country the law is very generous to operators about the % of claimed line speed they need to deliver. At best it is 50%, it might even be as bad as 20%. I will look into that, but even if they are breaking the law, these fuckers are not going to re-lay all the lines in the area just for me.
He recommended me to use the 5Ghz wifi network when watching the streamed TV. It's no more than 4m from the router and in clear sight
Because the line in is a bit unstable, he doesn't believe using an ethernet connection will help. And he said that if the VPN slows the speed down further at the point of use, that's the VPN's fault, and neither an ethernet cable nor the higher line speed will address that :-(
So that's probably me done here, for what it's worth, thanks to all who have offered advice and I'm glad to see the thread is of use to more people.
Anyway, it's low orbit satellites providing the internet connectivity. The trial started in the USA and there are now a couple of trialists in the UK and in other countries, where you are located determines whether you can get on to their 'beta'. Some of the speeds people have been getting are impressive. 150mb down and 20 - 50mb up, with the odd blip here and there. Latency is decent at around 30ms, latency is important too.
They are launching more satellites, but it may be something you want to look into?
Regarding packet loss.
It's not a good thing for you're internet to have, especially with video / audio as a dropped packet means missing data. For website browsing if a packet is dropped it's just sent again, you cant do that with video or audio and it's streaming and needs the packet to be there.
Hope that makes sense.
Thanks, I'll keep an eye on Starlink. I can't imagine this country features high on Musk's priorities, but it might be something for the future.
So you would regard 2.5% packet loss as a level that would cause problems with streaming? It might explain some of my buffering, and drops when listening to music on my Sonos machine?
Video and audio are in realtime, so yes any sort of packet loss is going to cause issues. You need all the packets to be in order, the packets cannot be replaced. In general web browsing, if a packet is dropped the packet can be requested again so it is resent.
Regarding Starlink, it's a global network. Might not be available now but it's worth registering here: https://www.starlink.com
Various calls to Virgin over the last 6 months resulted in Virgin admitting they had a capacity issue in BR5 so at peak times, speeds would be throttled.
So we signed up to BT FTTP and it was installed yesterday. Annoyingly, my Linksys Velop mesh has to be put in bridge mode to enable it to work with the BT smart hub (as we signed up to BT Digital Voice too!) but it has made a massive difference already.
900 down now, upload around 150 and they guarantee the minimum down will be 450. About £10pm more than Virgin were charging us but makes a world of difference to the two most important things (i) my wifes work video calls; and (ii) my streaming of football (although Spurs are f'ing shite!)
Ping around 2-3ms and jitter around 0.5-0.6ms. Loss 0% according to speedtest.
Very much an early adopter of BT FTTP in our post code but wonder what it will be like when the Virgin users all jump ship.
Just got the above and has boosted speeds throughout the house and reaches the office at the end of the garden with speeds of 100mbps but around 350 everywhere else.
Potentially should have gone ahead and got the TP link Deco M5's for £20 less, but much of a muchness I think.
Here is where we have ended up. The technician from the company which owns the line concluded that my modem works as it should. However the problem of packet drop (cc2.3%) is not the fault of the line per se but that the modem is not capable of optimising the line because it does not offer 'vectoring'. I don't have a good understanding of what vectoring means in this case, obviously...The bad news according to this guy was that hardly any modems on the Czech market are capable of vectoring.
However I got the technician from Vodafone (who sell the contract to me) to talk to the 1st technician. He agreed that vectoring is the issue, but maintained that Vodafone have a modem which will indeed address the vectoring issue.
Might anyone know what this is all about...vectoring? My current modem is an Asus D66L, quality but 4-5 years old now. Cost me around £100. Don't know what the Vodafone one is yet, but apparently costs about £80. I'll buy it, if I can really be sure it will stabilise the output on the wifi around the house (I'm persuaded that line speed in is not in fact my key problem)
I thank you!
https://www.capacitymedia.com/articles/2986517/What-is-vectoring-technology
Might need to investigate the new modem, then. Just didn't want to be duped into it.
Pretty good Youtube video with user experience below.
I installed a mesh system in a flat I lived in (Tenda) and one in the house I live in now (Eero), having bought repeaters and the difference is quite simply unbelievable.
Don't waste money on repeaters, buy mesh or you will end up regretting it.
By the by, the IT guy at work told me that mesh started in the music industry as a way of relaying sound. He might be misinformed though, as he is an IT guy by day and a musician by night and might have just merged the two.
He left to join a new firm called Trooli, a broadband firm based in Kingshill, so I using his staff discount joined them. It is like changing from dial up to broadband again, we have three teenagers and never suffer drop offs or slowness anymore. (I am not on commission) The downside is that it is a bit like Sky they bring the wires into your house and attach a box to your wall to run it all off.
Anyone had an experience with Community Fibre?
Upload speed is my priority to the work server, currently I’m on 4/5 mbs.
Any other company suggestions that are live in Sidcup?