Quite a few bame players have called it out - so I can see it stopping.
It's fizzling out so it'll stop at the end of the season. And rightly, too - corporations have seized upon the idea, and the media narrative has shifted to the actual action itself as "the thing", rather than the actual underlying reason behind the knee.
The FA and other authorities are probably loving the knee, because it makes it look like they're doing something when absolutely nothing is being done whatsoever.
Do I support the notion of the knee? Of course. I think we all do. But it's not doing anything. Take the fight to where it can truly engender change.
I completely agree with you Paddy, apart from that in bold. I suspect some of us don't.
Okay - well, hopefully it's only a very small minority of people who think racism is okay.
(edit - to add the word "only" in the sentence)
That’s a ridiculous comment tbh PaddyP17. Using your logic, the many POC who've come out against the action must also think racism is okay, which clearly is absurd.
Said I'd made my last comment on this, but feel I should actually clarify what I mean here:
Taking the knee, as a gesture per se, is something that people are speaking out against, as an action. That is because it is performative and not substantive.
However, I doubt the POC involved "think racism is okay". When I say the notion of the knee, I mean the notion behind the knee, i.e. that racism is bad/"End Racism Now" or whatever phrases are used.
If that wasn't clear- sorry. Hope it is now. I don't really think it needed clearing up, but the fact @The_Organiser said my comment was ridiculous has shown me otherwise.
Quite a few bame players have called it out - so I can see it stopping.
It's fizzling out so it'll stop at the end of the season. And rightly, too - corporations have seized upon the idea, and the media narrative has shifted to the actual action itself as "the thing", rather than the actual underlying reason behind the knee.
The FA and other authorities are probably loving the knee, because it makes it look like they're doing something when absolutely nothing is being done whatsoever.
Do I support the notion of the knee? Of course. I think we all do. But it's not doing anything. Take the fight to where it can truly engender change.
I completely agree with you Paddy, apart from that in bold. I suspect some of us don't.
Okay - well, hopefully it's only a very small minority of people who think racism is okay.
(edit - to add the word "only" in the sentence)
That’s a ridiculous comment tbh PaddyP17. Using your logic, the many POC who've come out against the action must also think racism is okay, which clearly is absurd.
Said I'd made my last comment on this, but feel I should actually clarify what I mean here:
Taking the knee, as a gesture per se, is something that people are speaking out against, as an action. That is because it is performative and not substantive.
However, I doubt the POC involved "think racism is okay". When I say the notion of the knee, I mean the notion behind the knee, i.e. that racism is bad/"End Racism Now" or whatever phrases are used.
If that wasn't clear- sorry. Hope it is now. I don't really think it needed clearing up, but the fact @The_Organiser said my comment was ridiculous has shown me otherwise.
Quite a few bame players have called it out - so I can see it stopping.
It's fizzling out so it'll stop at the end of the season. And rightly, too - corporations have seized upon the idea, and the media narrative has shifted to the actual action itself as "the thing", rather than the actual underlying reason behind the knee.
The FA and other authorities are probably loving the knee, because it makes it look like they're doing something when absolutely nothing is being done whatsoever.
Do I support the notion of the knee? Of course. I think we all do. But it's not doing anything. Take the fight to where it can truly engender change.
I completely agree with you Paddy, apart from that in bold. I suspect some of us don't.
Okay - well, hopefully it's only a very small minority of people who think racism is okay.
(edit - to add the word "only" in the sentence)
That’s a ridiculous comment tbh PaddyP17. Using your logic, the many POC who've come out against the action must also think racism is okay, which clearly is absurd.
Said I'd made my last comment on this, but feel I should actually clarify what I mean here:
Taking the knee, as a gesture per se, is something that people are speaking out against, as an action. That is because it is performative and not substantive.
However, I doubt the POC involved "think racism is okay". When I say the notion of the knee, I mean the notion behind the knee, i.e. that racism is bad/"End Racism Now" or whatever phrases are used.
If that wasn't clear- sorry. Hope it is now. I don't really think it needed clearing up, but the fact @The_Organiser said my comment was ridiculous has shown me otherwise.
Understood mate, baby brain here atm, so was my misinterpretation.
I understand the notion behind taking the knee. Racism is bad!! It is and Kick it out is/has done much good in addressing that so don’t really see the need to latch onto something else particularly something with extremist connotations. Then you get the likes of Clare tonight giving the black power salute. Sorry but that is just insulting and makes a mockery of it all
I understand the notion behind taking the knee. Racism is bad!! It is and Kick it out is/has done much good in addressing that so don’t really see the need to latch onto something else particularly something with extremist connotations. Then you get the likes of Clare tonight giving the black power salute. Sorry but that is just insulting and makes a mockery of it all
Quite a few bame players have called it out - so I can see it stopping.
Yeah Lyle Taylor doesn't like it, so world football's probably going to knock it on the head now.
I don’t like Taylor after the way he left us but what I thought he said was spot on.
There’s more that should be done to stop racism but associating with the BLM which is a markxist organisation isn’t the right way IMO.
Okay, except:
1) the BLM affiliation was dropped well before Taylor made his comments;
2) I don't think the average footballer is consciously extolling the virtues of Marxism when kneeling for a few seconds before a game (particularly given the number of players who also perform a black power salute); and
3) what's so bad about Marxism? Can you, or Lyle Taylor, or anyone else, define it in completion, and relate that satisfactorily to how a decentralised movement considers itself wholly Marxist, when the whole point of a decentralised movement is that it is decentralised?
--------
I believe this makes it about even in terms of comments from different perspectives on BLM/taking a knee, and I will refrain from any further comment on this thread, and instead if you'd like to continue I suggest we move to the "Taking a knee" thread over on the House of Commoners
Whatever it has now morphed into, the modern origins of taking a knee might be worth reflecting on.
My understanding is that Colin Kaepernick was making a point about hypocrisy. When everybody was singing the American national anthem, the land of the free home of the brave hand on heart my country right or wrong, Kaepernick seemed to be saying 'No! I don't buy into such a display when I feel the country has got it in for non white people. If everybody singing the anthem is an auto gesture, I will make a gesture of my own.'
I felt his taking a knee was a stance against hypocrisy and a protest against faux patriotism.
Personally I feel the same about aspects of this country, I would not participate in 'patriotic gestures' but then again it isn't demanded of me.
Yesterday, only yesterday, Mrs Plum and I were returning from our walk when we paused to chat to the old fella down the road we hadn't seen for a while. He was using a walking frame and said he hadn't been around as he had been in Lewisham hospital for four weeks from mid December with the Coronavirus.
During the chat he started going on about immigrants. All the expected stuff, free money, free houses, and he focused on channel crossers and said if he could he would lay a minefield. I pointed out that I was standing next to an immigrant (made no odds to him), and of course there is the irony regarding the staff at Lewisham hospital.
No way on earth would I act in a 'patriotic' way alongside him. He was an unashamed racist spouting his crap in front of Mrs Plum, a Chinese woman...immigrant, contributor and someone who has never had free money or a house paid for by him.
Shame and embarrassment is what I felt, and this is when pausing for a friendly chat with a neighbour. In that context I am on the same side as Colin Kaepernick and say bollocks to patriotism.
Quite a few bame players have called it out - so I can see it stopping.
It's fizzling out so it'll stop at the end of the season. And rightly, too - corporations have seized upon the idea, and the media narrative has shifted to the actual action itself as "the thing", rather than the actual underlying reason behind the knee.
The FA and other authorities are probably loving the knee, because it makes it look like they're doing something when absolutely nothing is being done whatsoever.
Do I support the notion of the knee? Of course. I think we all do. But it's not doing anything. Take the fight to where it can truly engender change.
I completely agree with you Paddy, apart from that in bold. I suspect some of us don't.
Okay - well, hopefully it's only a very small minority of people who think racism is okay.
(edit - to add the word "only" in the sentence)
That’s a ridiculous comment tbh PaddyP17. Using your logic, the many POC who've come out against the action must also think racism is okay, which clearly is absurd.
Said I'd made my last comment on this, but feel I should actually clarify what I mean here:
Taking the knee, as a gesture per se, is something that people are speaking out against, as an action. That is because it is performative and not substantive.
However, I doubt the POC involved "think racism is okay". When I say the notion of the knee, I mean the notion behind the knee, i.e. that racism is bad/"End Racism Now" or whatever phrases are used.
If that wasn't clear- sorry. Hope it is now. I don't really think it needed clearing up, but the fact @The_Organiser said my comment was ridiculous has shown me otherwise.
Understood mate, baby brain here atm, so was my misinterpretation.
Comments
Taking the knee, as a gesture per se, is something that people are speaking out against, as an action. That is because it is performative and not substantive.
However, I doubt the POC involved "think racism is okay". When I say the notion of the knee, I mean the notion behind the knee, i.e. that racism is bad/"End Racism Now" or whatever phrases are used.
If that wasn't clear- sorry. Hope it is now. I don't really think it needed clearing up, but the fact @The_Organiser said my comment was ridiculous has shown me otherwise.
This is about freedom of speech, and I would have made my feelings known.
My understanding is that Colin Kaepernick was making a point about hypocrisy.
When everybody was singing the American national anthem, the land of the free home of the brave hand on heart my country right or wrong, Kaepernick seemed to be saying 'No! I don't buy into such a display when I feel the country has got it in for non white people. If everybody singing the anthem is an auto gesture, I will make a gesture of my own.'
I felt his taking a knee was a stance against hypocrisy and a protest against faux patriotism.
Personally I feel the same about aspects of this country, I would not participate in 'patriotic gestures' but then again it isn't demanded of me.
Yesterday, only yesterday, Mrs Plum and I were returning from our walk when we paused to chat to the old fella down the road we hadn't seen for a while. He was using a walking frame and said he hadn't been around as he had been in Lewisham hospital for four weeks from mid December with the Coronavirus.
During the chat he started going on about immigrants. All the expected stuff, free money, free houses, and he focused on channel crossers and said if he could he would lay a minefield. I pointed out that I was standing next to an immigrant (made no odds to him), and of course there is the irony regarding the staff at Lewisham hospital.
No way on earth would I act in a 'patriotic' way alongside him. He was an unashamed racist spouting his crap in front of Mrs Plum, a Chinese woman...immigrant, contributor and someone who has never had free money or a house paid for by him.
Shame and embarrassment is what I felt, and this is when pausing for a friendly chat with a neighbour.
In that context I am on the same side as Colin Kaepernick and say bollocks to patriotism.