The rise and fall of Eddie Firmani - Are there parallels to our current situation ?

Richard J

This was before my time as an Addick and I am posting this because I am interested by the views of those who supported us during this time . In my view it seems to have some parallels to the current situation with Bows .

Firstly as a player Firmani was a bona fide Charlton legend. By comparison Bowyer was a promising youngster who was sold to the Premier League before he reached his full potential .

It seems in may ways Eddie was ahead of his time .Well before Arsene Wenger  he seems to have brought some European style discipline into a reluctant English game Jack Burkett tells a story in his autobiographical book ‘ West Ham in the 60’s’ about Firmani not allowing alcohol on pre season trips when he ordered a lager in contrast to Ron Greenwood at West Ham . Jack describes this as the ‘regimented Italian way of doing things’.

Clearly this initially worked because the 1968/69 was the most successful season we had in over a decade and it is a team that many posters here remember with great affection .

The next season we didn’t kick on and nearly got relegated . One thing that doesn't make sense is striker Matt Tees being sold to Third Division Luton early on in the campaign and also the signing of Maurice Setters . 

So what went wrong that Eddie that got sacked less than a season later from the iconic 68/69 team  ?

Lincsaddick

Good post, and a very accurate view of that time in the life of CAFC. I recall having a chat in the Blackheath Standard pub with a pal of Bob Curtis. He told me that Bob and the rest of the squad were cheesed off that Firmani clamped right down on socialising. (i.e. heavy drinking sessions) after the very near promotion season.  Firmani's stricter regime 'lost the dressing room' and that was the reason for the team's nosedive in form.
Like Bowyer, Firmani was a comparative newcomer to management and probably lacked the necessary man management skills that are as important as a grip on tactics. Both possibly lack/lacked flexibility and were too dogmatic and 'I'm always right' in their approach.

Richard J

Lincsaddick said:

Good post, and a very accurate view of that time in the life of CAFC. I recall having a chat in the Blackheath Standard pub with a pal of Bob Curtis. He told me that Bob and the rest of the squad were cheesed off that Firmani clamped right down on socialising. (i.e. heavy drinking sessions) after the very near promotion season.  Firmani's stricter regime 'lost the dressing room' and that was the reason for the team's nosedive in form.
Like Bowyer, Firmani was a comparative newcomer to management and probably lacked the necessary man management skills that are as important as a grip on tactics. Both possibly lack/lacked flexibility and were too dogmatic and 'I'm always right' in their approach.

Thanks Lincs that makes sense. 

It is interesting that history has proved Firmani right with a greater European influence eliminating the old drinking culture but Glikstein wasn't going to risk a relegation to back him. 

So bringing it back to current day 16 points above the drop zone I think we should be safe this year. 

The question is will Thomas back Lee going forward? 

MuttleyCAFC

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

Richard J

MuttleyCAFC said:

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

I also wonder whether because Eddie and Lee played at higher levels than those they manage they expect skill and standards which might be beyond those that their players are capable of. 

bobmunro

On reflection I can definitely see parallels, Richard.

Firmani was a disciplinarian and he expected all out commitment. That can only work when the results are good - the players are up for it because they are getting satisfaction and consequent motivation from the buzz of winning.

If and when the results head south that expectation of giving all wears a bit thin and the tough love needs to be replaced with tactical nouse and man management skills. Firmani lacked both, and perhaps the same applies to Bowyer.

SoundAsa£

Richard J said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

I also wonder whether because Eddie and Lee played at higher levels than those they manage they expect standards which might be beyond those that their players. 

Eddie simply brought much stricter and responsible Italian style discipline to the table.....the lads weren’t prepared for the level of professionalism he tried to enforce, which nowadays is a given.
So yes......from that point of view he was, by British standards, way ahead of the times.

Richard J

SoundAsa£ said:

Richard J said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

I also wonder whether because Eddie and Lee played at higher levels than those they manage they expect standards which might be beyond those that their players. 

Eddie simply brought much stricter and responsible Italian style discipline to the table.....the lads weren’t prepared for the level of professionalism he tried to enforce, which nowadays is a given.
So yes......from that point of view he was, by British standards, way ahead of the times.

Yet he was able to motivate them in 68/69 which is a season I wish I had witnessed. 

I think @bobmunro explains it well above in that while results are good the players accepted it. 

This again probably has parallels with our situation today. 

The question is do we stick or twist? 

DICKIE PLUMB

Richard J said:

Lincsaddick said:

Good post, and a very accurate view of that time in the life of CAFC. I recall having a chat in the Blackheath Standard pub with a pal of Bob Curtis. He told me that Bob and the rest of the squad were cheesed off that Firmani clamped right down on socialising. (i.e. heavy drinking sessions) after the very near promotion season.  Firmani's stricter regime 'lost the dressing room' and that was the reason for the team's nosedive in form.
Like Bowyer, Firmani was a comparative newcomer to management and probably lacked the necessary man management skills that are as important as a grip on tactics. Both possibly lack/lacked flexibility and were too dogmatic and 'I'm always right' in their approach.

Thanks Lincs that makes sense. 

It is interesting that history has proved Firmani right with a greater European influence eliminating the old drinking culture but Glickstein wasn't going to risk a relegation to back him. 

So bringing it back to current day 16 points above the drop zone I think we should be safe this year. 

The question is will Thomas back him going forward? 

Very interesting discussion. As Eddie was my first hero I am probably biased but I remember the side when he was manager and I thought we were going places - at first. If the players had bought into his philosophy then history could well have been different. Eddie was way ahead of his time. 
On the current situation 16 points clear is fine as long as we are picking up points - at the moment I can’t see where the next point is coming from.....

charltonbob

68/69 was a fantastic time to be supporting Charlton, think all of us of a certain age will agree with that & but for too many draws we would have been promoted, mind you Derby & the glaziers also drew a fair number. I've often wondered when chatting to other old bastards whatever went wrong the following season. Lincs post tells us that the English game wasn't ready for that kind of professionalism. The similarities don't stop with possible lack of man management skills, Eddie played Mike Kenning a winger at left back against high flying Leicester & we got walloped 0-5, he was sacked a couple of days later. LB dodged the bullet with Smyth at full/wing back. Funnily when turning some cupboards out over the weekend I came across an original issue of Eddie Firmanis book, no time to flick through tho.

Richard J

DICKIE PLUMB said:

Richard J said:

Lincsaddick said:

Good post, and a very accurate view of that time in the life of CAFC. I recall having a chat in the Blackheath Standard pub with a pal of Bob Curtis. He told me that Bob and the rest of the squad were cheesed off that Firmani clamped right down on socialising. (i.e. heavy drinking sessions) after the very near promotion season.  Firmani's stricter regime 'lost the dressing room' and that was the reason for the team's nosedive in form.
Like Bowyer, Firmani was a comparative newcomer to management and probably lacked the necessary man management skills that are as important as a grip on tactics. Both possibly lack/lacked flexibility and were too dogmatic and 'I'm always right' in their approach.

Thanks Lincs that makes sense. 

It is interesting that history has proved Firmani right with a greater European influence eliminating the old drinking culture but Glickstein wasn't going to risk a relegation to back him. 

So bringing it back to current day 16 points above the drop zone I think we should be safe this year. 

The question is will Thomas back him going forward? 

Very interesting discussion. As Eddie was my first hero I am probably biased but I remember the side when he was manager and I thought we were going places - at first. If the players had bought into his philosophy then history could well have been different. Eddie was way ahead of his time. 
On the current situation 16 points clear is fine as long as we are picking up points - at the moment I can’t see where the next point is coming from.....

I used Eddie as the comparable situation because a lot of posters remember 68/69 with such affection yet a year later he was on his way.

I don't think I have experienced such a quick 180 degree turn in fan opinion during my time supporting the club. 

Big William

SoundAsa£ said:

Richard J said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

I also wonder whether because Eddie and Lee played at higher levels than those they manage they expect standards which might be beyond those that their players. 

Eddie simply brought much stricter and responsible Italian style discipline to the table.....the lads weren’t prepared for the level of professionalism he tried to enforce, which nowadays is a given.
So yes......from that point of view he was, by British standards, way ahead of the times.

A Liverpool fan said the same to me about Souness when he was in charge at Anfield - he felt he was on the right path but tried to change too much at once. A lot of what he wanted to change - diet, fitness etc, is pretty standard now but upset the players at the time. And, once the performance drops a few percent, things slide and the manager will always carry the can.  

SoundAsa£

charltonbob said:

68/69 was a fantastic time to be supporting Charlton, think all of us of a certain age will agree with that & but for too many draws we would have been promoted, mind you Derby & the glaziers also drew a fair number. I've often wondered when chatting to other old bastards whatever went wrong the following season. Lincs post tells us that the English game wasn't ready for that kind of professionalism. The similarities don't stop with possible lack of man management skills, Eddie played Mike Kenning a winger at left back against high flying Leicester & we got walloped 0-5, he was sacked a couple of days later. LB dodged the bullet with Smyth at full/wing back. Funnily when turning some cupboards out over the weekend I came across an original issue of Eddie Firmanis book, no time to flick through tho.

“No time to flick through tho,”........I’ve not read that one.

SoundAsa£

Just thought......he wouldn’t tolerate bad language in his presence either,

Addick Addict

SoundAsa£ said:

Just thought......he wouldn’t tolerate bad language in his presence either,

Definite parallels there - I've heard that LB won't allow it either!

Richard J

charltonbob said:

68/69 was a fantastic time to be supporting Charlton, think all of us of a certain age will agree with that & but for too many draws we would have been promoted, mind you Derby & the glaziers also drew a fair number. I've often wondered when chatting to other old bastards whatever went wrong the following season. Lincs post tells us that the English game wasn't ready for that kind of professionalism. The similarities don't stop with possible lack of man management skills, Eddie played Mike Kenning a winger at left back against high flying Leicester & we got walloped 0-5, he was sacked a couple of days later. LB dodged the bullet with Smyth at full/wing back. Funnily when turning some cupboards out over the weekend I came across an original issue of Eddie Firmanis book, no time to flick through tho.

I love the stories from that season . I wish I had witnessed it .

Blucher

1968/69 was my first real season, so I saw things through a 10 year old's eyes and had never seen Eddie Firmani the player. 

One mistake that Eddie certainly did make was to publicly lambast Alan Campbell after a heavy 4-1 home defeat against Hull City in early 1970. He more or less laid the entire blame for the defeat at the door of Campbell - our best payer, in my view - and I was shocked to read all about it on the back pages of the Sunday papers. I also thought it was grossly unfair, given the performance of the team as a whole. The rift it caused with the player was irreparable and Campbell left shortly afterwards for £70,000 to Birmingham City. He took most of our midfield creativity with him.

Managers have to be very clear about what they are trying to achieve by calling out players publicly. It's a gun you can generally only fire once in the direction of a particular player and the response you receive will depend very much upon the individual, so a degree of sensitivity and insight is required. If you keep doing it - as Bowyer has been doing - it just becomes noise, is interpreted as the manager trying to cover his own arse and usually alienates the dressing room.

Another mistake that Eddie Firmani made was, as @Richard J says, selling Matt Tees to Luton. Matt's 55 goals over the next three seasons (albeit at a lower level) suggest that he had plenty of football left in him. The replacements that we signed - Gordon Riddick from Gillingham for around £15,000 and Dickie Plumb from Yeovil for around £7,000 - simply weren't up to it. 

I remember the 0-5 home defeat to Leicester, with poor old Mike Kenning at left back, which saw the end of Firmani and the appointment of Theo Foley for the last few games of the season. I think we were 0-4 down at half-time but I still hung around post-match to get the autographs of the players, including the entire Leicester team, save for one Peter Shilton. He had just been named in the provisional 28 man Mexico World Cup squad but refused to sign any autographs for the throng of kids waiting outside. I am not usually someone who bears a grudge but I was prepared to make an exception in his case. 

DICKIE PLUMB

addick1956 said:

Richard J said:

This was before my time as an Addick and I am posting this because I am interested by the views of those who supported us during this time . In my view it seems to have some parallels to the current situation with Bows .

Firstly as a player Firmani was a bona fide Charlton legend. By comparison Bowyer was a promising youngster who was sold to the Premier League before he reached his full potential .

It seems in may ways Eddie was ahead of his time .Well before Arsene Wenger  he seems to have brought some European style discipline into a reluctant English game Jack Burkett tells a story in his autobiographical book ‘ West Ham in the 60’s’ about Firmani not allowing alcohol on pre season trips when he ordered a lager in contrast to Ron Greenwood at West Ham . Jack describes this as the ‘regimented Italian way of doing things’.

Clearly this initially worked because the 1968/69 was the most successful season we had in over a decade and it is a team that many posters here remember with great affection .

The next season we didn’t kick on and nearly got relegated . One thing that doesn't make sense is striker Matt Tees being sold to Third Division Luton early on in the campaign and also the signing of Maurice Setters . 

So what went wrong that Eddie that got sacked less than a season later from the iconic 68/69 team  ?

 Eddie Firmani is one of the best players ever to have donned a Charlton shirt. When he came back in Oct 1963 it added 8,000 to the gate and a 3-0 win . One man can make a difference.  

His 1968 -69 team was a joy to watch. So was the football.  The players were maybe not as fit but they hardly ever pulled muscles and were all round , better players with the ball. 

Some how it went wrong and one reason was crowd expectations.  Probably  selling players didn't  help. 

I saw Eddie on his return. Fantastic player. One thing sticks in my mind - Eddie had very well developed thighs and used them to trap the ball to great effect. Italian flair with English/ South African guts. We could use him now. 

Oggy Red

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

DICKIE PLUMB

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

I remember that Swindon game and David Colman on Grandstand said (and I quote) ‘and, as for Charlton, they have problems’. 

Blucher

That Swindon result was a real shaker, particularly after a scoreless first half. To compound matters, the goals were on Match of the Day ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pyH1kvjlzI&ab_channel=Swindon-Town-FC.co.uk

Richard J

Blucher said:

1968/69 was my first real season, so I saw things through a 10 year old's eyes and had never seen Eddie Firmani the player. 

One mistake that Eddie certainly did make was to publicly lambast Alan Campbell after a heavy 4-1 home defeat against Hull City in early 1970. He more or less laid the entire blame for the defeat at the door of Campbell - our best payer, in my view - and I was shocked to read all about it on the back pages of the Sunday papers. I also thought it was grossly unfair, given the performance of the team as a whole. The rift it caused with the player was irreparable and Campbell left shortly afterwards for £70,000 to Birmingham City. He took most of our midfield creativity with him.

Managers have to be very clear about what they are trying to achieve by calling out players publicly. It's a gun you can generally only fire once in the direction of a particular player and the response you receive will depend very much upon the individual, so a degree of sensitivity and insight is required. If you keep doing it - as Bowyer has been doing - it just becomes noise, is interpreted as the manager trying to cover his own arse and usually alienates the dressing room.

Another mistake that Eddie Firmani made was, as @Richard J says, selling Matt Tees to Luton. Matt's 55 goals over the next three seasons (albeit at a lower level) suggest that he had plenty of football left in him. The replacements that we signed - Gordon Riddick from Gillingham for around £15,000 and Dickie Plumb from Yeovil for around £7,000 - simply weren't up to it. 

I remember the 0-5 home defeat to Leicester, with poor old Mike Kenning at left back, which saw the end of Firmani and the appointment of Theo Foley for the last few games of the season. I think we were 0-4 down at half-time but I still hung around post-match to get the autographs of the players, including the entire Leicester team, save for one Peter Shilton. He had just been named in the provisional 28 man Mexico World Cup squad but refused to sign any autographs for the throng of kids waiting outside. I am not usually someone who bears a grudge but I was prepared to make an exception in his case. 

Another parallel . Publicly criticising players .

Richard J

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

What was the deal with Crawford ?

His record of 7 in 21 is respectable yet he is not remembered fondly . 

StrikerFirmani

Richard J said:

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

What was the deal with Crawford ?

His record of 7 in 21 is respectable yet he is not remembered fondly . 

He went on strike.    

charltonbob

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

I was there for that 

Richard J

StrikerFirmani said:

Richard J said:

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

What was the deal with Crawford ?

His record of 7 in 21 is respectable yet he is not remembered fondly . 

He went on strike.    

Was that due to a fall out with Firmani? 

charltonbob

addick1956 said:

DICKIE PLUMB said:

addick1956 said:

Richard J said:

This was before my time as an Addick and I am posting this because I am interested by the views of those who supported us during this time . In my view it seems to have some parallels to the current situation with Bows .

Firstly as a player Firmani was a bona fide Charlton legend. By comparison Bowyer was a promising youngster who was sold to the Premier League before he reached his full potential .

It seems in may ways Eddie was ahead of his time .Well before Arsene Wenger  he seems to have brought some European style discipline into a reluctant English game Jack Burkett tells a story in his autobiographical book ‘ West Ham in the 60’s’ about Firmani not allowing alcohol on pre season trips when he ordered a lager in contrast to Ron Greenwood at West Ham . Jack describes this as the ‘regimented Italian way of doing things’.

Clearly this initially worked because the 1968/69 was the most successful season we had in over a decade and it is a team that many posters here remember with great affection .

The next season we didn’t kick on and nearly got relegated . One thing that doesn't make sense is striker Matt Tees being sold to Third Division Luton early on in the campaign and also the signing of Maurice Setters . 

So what went wrong that Eddie that got sacked less than a season later from the iconic 68/69 team  ?

 Eddie Firmani is one of the best players ever to have donned a Charlton shirt. When he came back in Oct 1963 it added 8,000 to the gate and a 3-0 win . One man can make a difference.  

His 1968 -69 team was a joy to watch. So was the football.  The players were maybe not as fit but they hardly ever pulled muscles and were all round , better players with the ball. 

Some how it went wrong and one reason was crowd expectations.  Probably  selling players didn't  help. 

I saw Eddie on his return. Fantastic player. One thing sticks in my mind - Eddie had very well developed thighs and used them to trap the ball to great effect. Italian flair with English/ South African guts. We could use him now. 

Five ft 9 inches with a great jump....his calves were twice the size of most people. Socks were specially made. I used to love his battles against  John Charles who was then a Cardiff.  Another amazing player and lovely man. 

5 ft 9 ? are you sure about that ? I thought he was a 6 footer

SoundAsa£

Richard J said:

StrikerFirmani said:

Richard J said:

Oggy Red said:

Having finished 3rd in 1968-69, we all had high hopes for promotion the following season.

We started well enough, with Ray Crawford scoring the winner after being a goal down at home to Preston.
Ticking along nicely for the next few games, I remember seeing us race into an early 2 goal lead at home to Sheff Utd one Tuesday night - they really couldn't live with us. But something was seriously amiss in that 2nd half as we limply let Sheff Utd fightback to level, before we somehow sneaked a third against the run of play. Sheff Utd then battered us but somehow our goalmouth led a charmed life and we escaped with a very fortunate 3-2 win.

I'd heard on the grapevine that Firmani had gone mental in that dressing room, humiliating certain players.
And the team were incensed at that. Was that the moment Firmani 'lost the dressing room' ....?

The next Saturday we were away at Swindon, hanging on for 0-0 at HT ........ but collapsed completely in the 2nd half as Swindon ran amok thumping us 5-0.
We never recovered. In freefall we plummeted down the table, Firmani eventually sacked - before scraping to relegation safety.

What was the deal with Crawford ?

His record of 7 in 21 is respectable yet he is not remembered fondly . 

He went on strike.    

Was that due to a fall out with Firmani? 

Firmani went crackers if I remember rightly.

JamesSeed

Blucher said:

1968/69 was my first real season, so I saw things through a 10 year old's eyes and had never seen Eddie Firmani the player. 

One mistake that Eddie certainly did make was to publicly lambast Alan Campbell after a heavy 4-1 home defeat against Hull City in early 1970. He more or less laid the entire blame for the defeat at the door of Campbell - our best payer, in my view - and I was shocked to read all about it on the back pages of the Sunday papers. I also thought it was grossly unfair, given the performance of the team as a whole. The rift it caused with the player was irreparable and Campbell left shortly afterwards for £70,000 to Birmingham City. He took most of our midfield creativity with him.

Managers have to be very clear about what they are trying to achieve by calling out players publicly. It's a gun you can generally only fire once in the direction of a particular player and the response you receive will depend very much upon the individual, so a degree of sensitivity and insight is required. If you keep doing it - as Bowyer has been doing - it just becomes noise, is interpreted as the manager trying to cover his own arse and usually alienates the dressing room.

Spot on @Blucher. 

Very few players respond well to a public lambasting. If the criticism is that they are making too many mistakes, it only has the effect of increasing the pressure on the player, who will be acutely aware of those mistakes already. 

If the criticism is lack of effort, then it’s perhaps more understandable, assuming it is true; but if it isn’t true it can only cause resentment in the player, and possibly in the squad.

An old Charlton manager used to invite a player to his office for a chat if they weren’t playing well, and they’d work together to find ways of improving things. The idea was the player would walk out of the office feeling more positive and better motivated. 

However, if he decided a player wasn’t the player he thought it was when he bought him, he’d quietly sell him, even for a loss, and replace him with someone more suitable, meaning he didn’t have a discontented or underperforming player in the squad for too long. Of course Lee Bowyer doesn’t have that option because of the transfer window situation.
The problem he has is that it looks like he’s made enemies amongst the players, and that rarely works out well for a manager. 
Sad times. 

JohnfromNorfolk

Richard J said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Whilst clearly being right and ahead of the times, I would imagine lower wages of the time made it more difficult to apply these standards.

I also wonder whether because Eddie and Lee played at higher levels than those they manage they expect skill and standards which might be beyond those that their players are capable of. 

I think you are spot on with that post Richard, I've wondered the same.

redlanered

This is a very perceptive thread @Richard J, there are definitely some parallels.  I was at the infamous Kenning/Leicester game, too - and as with Bowyer now you wonder whether managers make these Hail-Mary team selections being more than prepared to get the push when they - inevitably - don't work out (because in Managerland, being sacked is probably less embarrassing than resigning when you know you've lost the plot).  

Lee inherited a pretty decent team from Robinson, we were in effect joint-8th with a agame in hand.  Yes we were underperforming, and we got the new manager bounce.  But we limped into and out of the play-offs that year, two uninspiring defeats to Shrewsbury that we shouldn't forget.  All forgotten of course as he & Gallen improved the team (Magennis->Taylor, Cullen & Bielik), KAG came back (but I credit Robinson with starting to get KAG's confidence back, as i did at the time), and you know the rest.

Through the 70s me & mates would often refer to 68-69 as "the good year" (with the emphasis on the singular), and it looks like Lee will be remembered in the same vein - one glorious season but the inability to make a difference when things go sour...