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Copyright advice

paulfoxpaulfox
in General Charlton
Hi just after some direction knowing there a lot of well versed people on here. Basically my wife is starting a small business in personal gifts and frames etc. The idea is to use elements of club badges,quotes incorporated in the frame( father's/Mother’s Day gift with there favourite team). For example if I was to use just the sword, would that still be a copyright issue. Or is it ok to use part of the sword for example. I’m a sparky so have no idea of intricacies of this sort of thing. So would be appreciative of some guidance. Thanks in advance.

Comments

  • paulfoxpaulfox
    guinnessaddick said:
    Don’t copy anything that M&S sell.
    FreeCuthbert
    🤣🤣 ok thanks for the 1st bit of valuable advice👍 don’t think she was going to do any caterpillar stuff.
  • cafcfancafcfan
    I can't answer your question but did find this which is an interesting read. https://www.sports.legal/2017/02/football-club-badges-the-legal-implications-of-misuse/

    It seems to me that this must be a complex issue and that is why so many lawyers specialise in intellectual property rights. 

    Apart from anything else, do most people know the difference between copyright and registered trademarks? I certainly do not. Although this https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00002342052 indicates that the badge (along with other things) is indeed a registered trademark.

    Somewhere in the back of my brain I seem to recall that the club are fairly relaxed about the use of its logo for personal use.  However for commercial use - not so sure.

    So, I'd suggest two things.  Either approach the club for permission to use or get in touch with the people that ran the campaign against Roland. They probably would have some input for you.
  • cafcfancafcfan
    I have now found this buried on the club web site:

    Trademarks

    Charlton Athletic Football Club and all page headers, custom graphics and button icons are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of the club.  All other trademarks, product names and company names or logos cited herein are the property of their respective owners including the Club ("Third Party Trade Marks"). You are not permitted to use Charlton Athletic's Trademarks or Third Party Trademarks without the prior written consent of the club or such third parties that may own the Trademarks.


    Not sure where that leaves you regarding use of partial elements of a logo.

  • McBobbinMcBobbin
    They could stop using the American spelling "trademarks" for a start. It's two words FFS.

    Part of a mark will be similar rather than identical to their registration, but if there's a likelihood of confusion or association then there is still an infringement. That would be unavoidable in the circumstances. 

    The club might offer a licence, that would be the best thing
  • cafc999cafc999
    It will also be about profit or loss. For example, will you profit from the trade and will the club lose from the trade?
  • paulfoxpaulfox
    Thankyou for your helpful replies. You are confirming what I suspected. Searching online for club related personal gifts are very generic.( for the obvious reasons as above). So based on what she does already gave me an idea to make things more club oriented and personal. Mcbobbin, I will dm.you if that’s ok( but it will be short and sweet not to bother you). Really appreciate your help.
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    there will be plento of "associations" that I'd imagine would be fair game. 

    For example, Charlton's case SE7, Floyd Road, LLLABH, "and it becomes the perfect start" etc etc
  • ChizzChizz
    paulfox said:
    Hi just after some direction knowing there a lot of well versed people on here. Basically my wife is starting a small business in personal gifts and frames etc. The idea is to use elements of club badges,quotes incorporated in the frame( father's/Mother’s Day gift with there favourite team). For example if I was to use just the sword, would that still be a copyright issue. Or is it ok to use part of the sword for example. I’m a sparky so have no idea of intricacies of this sort of thing. So would be appreciative of some guidance. Thanks in advance.
    If you don't have luck with Charlton and you end up not being allowed to take part of the club's badge, here's a suggestion. 

    Get hold of part of the Gunn Clan badge. Then see if Charlton kick up a fuss. Because the sword-in-hand has been part of the Gunn Clan badge for hundreds of years before Charlton even came into existence. 




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  • paulfoxpaulfox
    edited April 2021
    cafc999 said:
    It will also be about profit or loss. For example, will you profit from the trade and will the club lose from the trade?
    I very much doubt the numbers of production would help the club pay for category 1status for the academy!!.🤣🤣
  • paulfoxpaulfox
    Chizz said:
    paulfox said:
    Hi just after some direction knowing there a lot of well versed people on here. Basically my wife is starting a small business in personal gifts and frames etc. The idea is to use elements of club badges,quotes incorporated in the frame( father's/Mother’s Day gift with there favourite team). For example if I was to use just the sword, would that still be a copyright issue. Or is it ok to use part of the sword for example. I’m a sparky so have no idea of intricacies of this sort of thing. So would be appreciative of some guidance. Thanks in advance.
    If you don't have luck with Charlton and you end up not being allowed to take part of the club's badge, here's a suggestion. 

    Get hold of part of the Gunn Clan badge. Then see if Charlton kick up a fuss. Because the sword-in-hand has been part of the Gunn Clan badge for hundreds of years before Charlton even came into existence. 




    Lol!!, thanks chizz but not sure I want to take on freshfields after what they achieved for the club!!, might just do something red and white, ( but not the exact red and white)!!!
  • _MrDick_MrDick
    cafcfan said:
    I have now found this buried on the club web site:

    Trademarks

    Charlton Athletic Football Club and all page headers, custom graphics and button icons are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of the club.  All other trademarks, product names and company names or logos cited herein are the property of their respective owners including the Club ("Third Party Trade Marks"). You are not permitted to use Charlton Athletic's Trademarks or Third Party Trademarks without the prior written consent of the club or such third parties that may own the Trademarks.


    Not sure where that leaves you regarding use of partial elements of a logo.

    What about cake baking. How many cakes do you see in the shape of a shirt or the Valley!
  • PopIconPopIcon
    Unless you are making millions I cannot see the club coming after your wife.
  • cafc999cafc999
    paulfox said:
    cafc999 said:
    It will also be about profit or loss. For example, will you profit from the trade and will the club lose from the trade?
    I very much doubt the numbers of production would help the club pay for category 1status for the academy!!.🤣🤣
    I raised that question a few years ago and it's not counted on how much money is at stake but if the trade mark holder makes a loss. That loss in the eyes of the law could be £1. 
  • McBobbinMcBobbin
    Doesn't even have to be a monetary loss, but simply a risk of association in terms of trade marks and simply copying in terms of copyright. It's really up to the rightholder in terms of what they do about it.

    The idea above someone said about using non protected words like "addickted" is a decent one. Funnily enough covered end choir is a registered trade mark because I registered it with the protest shirt! (I don't own the right though!")
  • guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    _MrDick said:
    cafcfan said:
    I have now found this buried on the club web site:

    Trademarks

    Charlton Athletic Football Club and all page headers, custom graphics and button icons are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of the club.  All other trademarks, product names and company names or logos cited herein are the property of their respective owners including the Club ("Third Party Trade Marks"). You are not permitted to use Charlton Athletic's Trademarks or Third Party Trademarks without the prior written consent of the club or such third parties that may own the Trademarks.


    Not sure where that leaves you regarding use of partial elements of a logo.

    What about cake baking. How many cakes do you see in the shape of a shirt or the Valley!
    Just eat the evidence.
  • RodneyCharltonTrottaRodneyCharltonTrotta
    edited April 2021
    Write to the club, explain you're fans and what you plan to do and ask for their written consent.

    Who knows if it takes off she may even start supplying the club shop/ online store.
  • ValiantphilValiantphil
    Mrs Beckham had a run-in with Peterborough Utd over the use of a nickname.
  • se9addickse9addick
    McBobbin said:
    This is my area of law... There will be copyright and also trade mark rights covering the images, even in part, so would be an infringement. Whether or not anyone will bother chasing your wife for.it is another question. Happy to explain more if you want to DM me
    I’ve noticed Rangers are going after non-official merchandising really hard at the moment and have even set up a designated email address for fans to inform them of unlicensed tat being sold.

    https://www.rangers.co.uk/article/supporter-update-brand-protection/4fWslzZqjzlYHMXpdwFozl
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  • RodneyCharltonTrottaRodneyCharltonTrotta
    se9addick said:
    McBobbin said:
    This is my area of law... There will be copyright and also trade mark rights covering the images, even in part, so would be an infringement. Whether or not anyone will bother chasing your wife for.it is another question. Happy to explain more if you want to DM me
    I’ve noticed Rangers are going after non-official merchandising really hard at the moment and have even set up a designated email address for fans to inform them of unlicensed tat being sold.

    https://www.rangers.co.uk/article/supporter-update-brand-protection/4fWslzZqjzlYHMXpdwFozl


    There's a new club just won the SPL been using their brand by all accounts.
  • McBobbinMcBobbin
    se9addick said:
    McBobbin said:
    This is my area of law... There will be copyright and also trade mark rights covering the images, even in part, so would be an infringement. Whether or not anyone will bother chasing your wife for.it is another question. Happy to explain more if you want to DM me
    I’ve noticed Rangers are going after non-official merchandising really hard at the moment and have even set up a designated email address for fans to inform them of unlicensed tat being sold.

    https://www.rangers.co.uk/article/supporter-update-brand-protection/4fWslzZqjzlYHMXpdwFozl
    I only get to see the disputes, I do sometimes wonder what is tolerated and what is not
  • guinnessaddickguinnessaddick
    se9addick said:
    McBobbin said:
    This is my area of law... There will be copyright and also trade mark rights covering the images, even in part, so would be an infringement. Whether or not anyone will bother chasing your wife for.it is another question. Happy to explain more if you want to DM me
    I’ve noticed Rangers are going after non-official merchandising really hard at the moment and have even set up a designated email address for fans to inform them of unlicensed tat being sold.

    https://www.rangers.co.uk/article/supporter-update-brand-protection/4fWslzZqjzlYHMXpdwFozl
    They’re the sort of people who don’t pay their taxes.
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