League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
All totally correct. But TS has said he has a 5 year plan which is a sensible approach. I'm not sure what the actual figures are but wouldnt the sell on fee from Pope fund a decent season in league one ? TS doesnt seem to me like someone who is looking to take funds out of the club or buy a fleet of range rovers. I'm not naive enough to think he isnt looking at this as an investment he would be mental if he wasnt, but the only way he will see a ROI is to stick to his 5 year plan and I dont see him being afraid to spend in order to get his end return. Business is business and football is no different
I'm really not sure Pope will leave Burnley. I can't see who would pay 40+ for him. Spurs and Chelsea the only two who might be in the market for a keeper, although I feel Chelsea will go with Mendy and Kepa for at least one more year.
We’re supposed to believe that TS, a man who built a successful business up from nothing, came in to save our club from nowhere, negotiated with Douchbag, hired the best legal eagles to rid us of the worst kind of scum, has listened and conversed openly with the fan base, doesn’t know about the operating loss that is likely to be upon us if we don’t go up?
Thats not doing the man a disservice, that’s taking the absolute piss out of him imo.
I am torn between being very pissed and not being that bothered. I know it sounds strange.
I am not that bothered because it was always a big ask for reasons well documented.
I am livid though because it's been a complete waste of everyone's time and Thomas's money. On the pitch we have achieved nothing at all.
As it stands on the 1st of July our squad is worse than it was in August. No one has had a break through season. We have signed 2 players, over 2 windows, that are under 30 and will be here next season. You don't pay the wages of men like Gunter, Watson and Maddison to finish midtable.
If we had played more kids, signed more players like DJ and Inniss and developed a proper playing identity I probably would have been more forgiving. This was a one season team, with one aim, and it failed. I don't think that is in dispute.
I think it was after the Fleetwood game where someone excused it because we were "building a team", bullshit none of them were under 30 AND contracted for next season.
This season has been neither a success or a rebuild. What a waste of time and money.
I was talking to some pompey fans last week and they were of the same opinion as most on here, they didn't rate Marquis or Harrison and didn't want to go in the playoffs as they said they would humiliate themselves.
I was talking to some pompey fans last week and they were of the same opinion as most on here, they didn't rate Marquis or Harrison and didn't want to go in the playoffs as they said they would humiliate themselves.
Someone has got to win them, my Sunderland supporting mate thinks they will get beat over 2 legs by who ever they play.
I'm really not sure Pope will leave Burnley. I can't see who would pay 40+ for him. Spurs and Chelsea the only two who might be in the market for a keeper, although I feel Chelsea will go with Mendy and Kepa for at least one more year.
Not convinced the top clubs would be willing to spend that kind of money on him (assuming Burnley would want 40-50m). He's a great shot stopper but the top clubs these days want a keeper who's just as good with his feet and his distribution isn't great from what i've seen of him.
But yes of the top clubs i'd say Spurs would be most likely if Lloris decides to leave.
City, United, Liverpool, Leicester, West Ham, Villa, Leeds and arguably Chelsea don't need a keeper right now.
To be honest, I'd much rather be doing the away games in this league than in the Championship. Some great weekends away and some brilliant hospitality.
Of course I want us to play at a higher level but the chances of me seeing us in the Premier league are limited.
To be honest, I'd much rather be doing the away games in this league than in the Championship. Some great weekends away and some brilliant hospitality.
Of course I want us to play at a higher level but the chances of me seeing us in the Premier league are limited.
Just glad I can still see us play live again.
And next season barring our promotion you can go to Cheltenham definitely and maybe Morecambe and Forest Green.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time.
Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time. Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time. Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
It is if you’re saying TS doesn’t realise it.
But that's not what was said.
The disparity between costs and income, at this level, is so much that it can't be over come with a increase in commercial or ticket revenue. That's a fact. If you doubled the income of the 18/19 season you would still make a lose.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time. Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
It is if you’re saying TS doesn’t realise it.
But that's not what was said.
The disparity between costs and income, at this level, is so much that it can't be over come with a increase in commercial or ticket revenue. That's a fact. If you doubled the income of the 18/19 season you would still make a lose.
Maybe not by you but it was insinuated that TS wouldn’t.
Which is my point.
The man is a very good businessman, he has surrounded himself with very good advisers so far. No way I’m accusing him of not knowing how tough it’s going to be if we stay in League One.
Really odd for any Charlton fan not to be bothered whether or not Charlton get promoted
its also really odd to get promoted with nobody in the ground and with a team that nobody really believes in - of course we would all take promotion but there are a lot of silver linings to not going up - promotion season's build support, going to games in promotion season's - home and away are are the reward for loyal fans who have endured the often dross seasons in between and we aren't likely to win anything else other than promotion - we have a good owner and hopefully 2 promotions in us under his stewardship - i'd like to enjoy them both as getting into europe seems a long long way off right now
Really odd for any Charlton fan not to be bothered whether or not Charlton get promoted
its also really odd to get promoted with nobody in the ground and with a team that nobody really believes in - of course we would all take promotion but there are a lot of silver linings to not going up - promotion season's build support, going to games in promotion season's - home and away are are the reward for loyal fans who have endured the often dross seasons in between and we aren't likely to win anything else other than promotion - we have a good owner and hopefully 2 promotions in us under his stewardship - i'd like to enjoy them both as getting into europe seems a long long way off right now
It honestly sounds like you’re retrospectively coming up with reasons now that promotion doesn’t look like it’s on the cards.
But if we can start the process of recruitment and retainment ASAP then I'm convinced that with the good will of most of Cafc fans towards Thomas and Nigel who is still in a honeymoon period then Momentum can work on and off the field.
TBF Thomas Sandgaard didn't buy a cash cow like the Glazers did at United, so he knows the financial issues he will incur with a 3rd tier club.
Charlton pre Covid days could attract good crowds considering the turmoil off the pitch.
We will probably fall short by 4 points or so by the end of the Hull game, yet some how we are finishing 7 and 8th out of 24. Despite the injuries, missed pens, terrible home record and the stench of the previous "owners" still cursing Charlton athletic.
Can you image what we could do if we had our main striker play 35 matches or so; On the pitch and not us an impact sub !
Another season in League 1 I can handle but not if we get to the edge of our opponents box and then the ball is suddenly passed back and ends up with our keeper.
Home games have been so poor this season bar the 2nd halves against Rochdale, Wimbledon and Lincoln. May be more but I mainly remember the shocking gifts we gave away down the Covered end, plus a couple of worldy's; mainly cock ups.
If not poor then totally passive.
50/50 if I come back after 1200 or so games. I probably will because "I'm Charlton till I die" my solicitor is using Chizz's tooth comb to see if I can escape.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time.
Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
The absence of precisely this qualification in the OP is what I criticised. It stated baldly that Div3 = disaster. It ain't. Right here right now Div3 is step one on TS's ladder to better days. The scale of Roly's loss making in div3 was in no small way the result of his hopelessly misguided mismanagement. Yes the guaranteed money in div3 isn't huge but the deluded old fool allowed Katrien to alienate commercial partners, offend fans, then piss money away on lengthy costly contracts for some players; numerous misfits from his network were foisted on Charlton's payroll for non-footballing reasons and he hired and fired a list of unsuitable team managers. All surefire means of burning through millions while achieving ever worsening output. We can all take Thomas's European football bluster with a decent pinch of salt but another season at this level keeps the gradient of his learning curve (and our expectation curve!) manageable.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time. Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
It is if you’re saying TS doesn’t realise it.
But that's not what was said.
The disparity between costs and income, at this level, is so much that it can't be over come with a increase in commercial or ticket revenue. That's a fact. If you doubled the income of the 18/19 season you would still make a lose.
Maybe not by you but it was insinuated that TS wouldn’t.
Which is my point.
The man is a very good businessman, he has surrounded himself with very good advisers so far. No way I’m accusing him of not knowing how tough it’s going to be if we stay in League One.
You can’t predict it because you don’t know the revenue and you don’t know how long you will be in L1. I doubt if Wayne Mumford would claim to be an expert on running football clubs, with no disrespect to him. He’s never done it.
I can only judge TS’s assumptions on what he says, which appears to include promotion from the Championship without significant external investment in the playing squad, i.e, using better value players and driving commercial income.
Maybe his financial assumptions are less optimistic than his public statements. I understand that optimism can be a strategy, but I’d be surprised if he’s planning for multiple seasons in L1. Yet we know that is a risk and any fan who thinks otherwise is simply not being serious.
As for those arguing that L1 is cheaper, yes it is. But you start £5-7m down in revenue because of the EFL funding package, in the main. So the uncontrollable loss is greater.
League One is a disaster for Charlton. That is all.
A disaster is an occurrence disrupting the normal conditions of existence and causing a level of suffering that exceeds the capacity of adjustment of the affected community.
Under previous regimes, I’d agree with you. Under Thomas, I don’t think so.
The club can’t be made to work financially at this level, as Duchatelet found and Thomas will too. There are two fundamental reasons for this - the difference in central income and the difference in its own revenues. No amount of positivity or goodwill will offset the fact that the football is poor and the opposition bring fewer supporters and attract fewer of our own. We have a big stadium and fixed costs that can’t be funded from revenues in League One.
Yes, the playing budget is significantly lower In L1 and it’s possible to burn through bigger sums In the Championship but to some extent those costs are under the club’s control, as last season showed.
I have absolute respect for what Thomas has done in rescuing the club, but acquiring a business - even in our very strange circumstances - Is likely to be familiar territory to him. Running one successfully in the English football league, in a foreign country, with limited knowledge of the club, is likely to be more of a challenge.
He backs his own judgement and believes he brings something special that will bring success. I hope he’s right. But to a greater or lesser extent, all of Jimenez/Slater, Duchatelet and ESI believed the same thing. They could do what nobody else could.
Now, it may be that Thomas is the special one. I hope for our sake and his that he is. But it is simply a leap of faith to think at this stage that he will be. I understand why people are willing to make that leap, but experience suggests it’s tough. And there is no evidence. Yet.
this is a phoney equivalence
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it. The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above. Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again. A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now. Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision. Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
The 3 seasons we spent on the 3rd division, under Roland, result in an operating lose of over 30 million quid. This was partly off set by player sales (mainly Lookman and JBG in season 1). I don't remember us splashing the cash on players either in that time.
Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
The absence of precisely this qualification in the OP is what I criticised. It stated baldly that Div3 = disaster. It ain't. Right here right now Div3 is step one on TS's ladder to better days. The scale of Roly's loss making in div3 was in no small way the result of his hopelessly misguided mismanagement. Yes the guaranteed money in div3 isn't huge but the deluded old fool allowed Katrien to alienate commercial partners, offend fans, then piss money away on lengthy costly contracts for some players; numerous misfits from his network were foisted on Charlton's payroll for non-footballing reasons and he hired and fired a list of unsuitable team managers. All surefire means of burning through millions while achieving ever worsening output. We can all take Thomas's European football bluster with a decent pinch of salt but another season at this level keeps the gradient of his learning curve (and our expectation curve!) manageable.
It's not as simple as that though is it? Crowds we're up, especially towards the end of the season, we had the extra revenue from the play offs, including the final.
The "lengthy contracts" were just Nabby, BFG and Igor. Are you suggesting that Katrine, who hadn't been at the club during that financial year had alienation commercial partners to the extent of 400% of our commercial revenue?
Yes the loss could have been less with better management but it would never be anywhere close to zero. Unless you sell a Lookman every year.
I think we’re kidding ourselves by saying do we really wanna go up, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t benefits of staying down.
We stay down, we have a clear out and build a very competitive side to go up and compete straight away in the 2nd tier.
We somehow go up, we need a mega mega clear out and rebuild which would probably rock the boat so much that even with added quality would result in a survival battle next season.
So in reality it’s strong season third tier Vs poor season second tier, and with us being away from the ground for so long the first option sounds good!
Really odd for any Charlton fan not to be bothered whether or not Charlton get promoted
its also really odd to get promoted with nobody in the ground and with a team that nobody really believes in - of course we would all take promotion but there are a lot of silver linings to not going up - promotion season's build support, going to games in promotion season's - home and away are are the reward for loyal fans who have endured the often dross seasons in between and we aren't likely to win anything else other than promotion - we have a good owner and hopefully 2 promotions in us under his stewardship - i'd like to enjoy them both as getting into europe seems a long long way off right now
It honestly sounds like you’re retrospectively coming up with reasons now that promotion doesn’t look like it’s on the cards.
possibly but the honest answer is i'm not that bothered and above are the reasons why - one of the downsides to not going up normally would be the fear that you will lose your best players / the team will be broken up - well am i bothered about that this year ??? Will the thrill of being in the championship be comparable with the thrill of getting promoted to the top division for the first time in your lifetime? no - so other than financial (which i'm afraid TS has that to worry about, not me) then i'd definitely take a serious crack at promotion in league 1 over a struggle in the championship
Comments
We’re supposed to believe that TS, a man who built a successful business up from nothing, came in to save our club from nowhere, negotiated with Douchbag, hired the best legal eagles to rid us of the worst kind of scum, has listened and conversed openly with the fan base, doesn’t know about the operating loss that is likely to be upon us if we don’t go up?
Thats not doing the man a disservice, that’s taking the absolute piss out of him imo.
Seriously?
I am not that bothered because it was always a big ask for reasons well documented.
I am livid though because it's been a complete waste of everyone's time and Thomas's money. On the pitch we have achieved nothing at all.
As it stands on the 1st of July our squad is worse than it was in August. No one has had a break through season. We have signed 2 players, over 2 windows, that are under 30 and will be here next season. You don't pay the wages of men like Gunter, Watson and Maddison to finish midtable.
If we had played more kids, signed more players like DJ and Inniss and developed a proper playing identity I probably would have been more forgiving. This was a one season team, with one aim, and it failed. I don't think that is in dispute.
I think it was after the Fleetwood game where someone excused it because we were "building a team", bullshit none of them were under 30 AND contracted for next season.
This season has been neither a success or a rebuild. What a waste of time and money.
But yes of the top clubs i'd say Spurs would be most likely if Lloris decides to leave.
City, United, Liverpool, Leicester, West Ham, Villa, Leeds and arguably Chelsea don't need a keeper right now.
Of course I want us to play at a higher level but the chances of me seeing us in the Premier league are limited.
Just glad I can still see us play live again.
all 3 failed but at 3 distinctly different pursuits - I doubt any of them entertained a notion of 3rd division stasis, let alone planned for it.
The spivs thought they could play with their mate's money, TJ's eyes always on flipping us on for a swift payday and/or the property play, their 'mate' changed his mind and/or never had the funds, precipitating a hasty sale to a willing chump
Roly's idiosyncrasies don't need replaying here
ESI's sole aim was the flip and was the flimsiest shambles of the 3. It was peddled by a vainglorious chancer who wrongly thought he'd taken in a bloke with access to a few quid, who in turn wasn't worth anything, precipitating another attempt at a hasty disposal, roly had one moment of clarity, stepped in and sidelined ESI.
Nothing about TS suggests anything like any of the above.
Another season in div3 is inevitable and for the immediate future a much less costly proposition than the Championship. For an inexperienced owner a promotion challenging side in div3 is much more easily assembled than one that might avoid relegation in the Championship. Assuming of course that the process is already well under way and that the level of turmoil around Charlton and football in general abates. Sunderland is frequently brought up as the example of "how difficult it is to get out of div3" and how we can't take promotion for granted. The black cats haven't enjoyed stable ownership and funding over recent years. Even with roly's malign control we got promoted 2 years ago and at the end of this strangest of all seasons, we're right on the edge of achieving it again.
A well planned and reasonably well resourced squad, with only a modicum of good fortune over bad, will finish top 2 in 2022. Just as Chris Powell and Peter Varney succeeded a decade ago. With that experience in the bag and the resultant improved feeling all around the club Thomas's and Charlton's prospects in a years time will be vastly greater than now.
Whichever division we're gracing this time next year TS will need to be considering greater/different funding to fully resource his vision.
Division 3 for 21/22 should be very far from disastrous. Sniping from the sidelines, before he's had any chance to do much at all, is cheap and silly.
Its not sniping from the sidelines to suggest that a substantial period in league 1 is a financial nightmare.
Yes revenue will probably go up, wages may go slightly down, but our last promotion season saw a £10 million loss on income under £8 million. That's a hell of a bridge to cross.
The disparity between costs and income, at this level, is so much that it can't be over come with a increase in commercial or ticket revenue. That's a fact. If you doubled the income of the 18/19 season you would still make a lose.
Actually, more and more so.
Which is my point.
The man is a very good businessman, he has surrounded himself with very good advisers so far. No way I’m accusing him of not knowing how tough it’s going to be if we stay in League One.
But if we can start the process of recruitment and retainment ASAP then I'm convinced that with the good will of most of Cafc fans towards Thomas and Nigel who is still in a honeymoon period then Momentum can work on and off the field.
TBF Thomas Sandgaard didn't buy a cash cow like the Glazers did at United, so he knows the financial issues he will incur with a 3rd tier club.
Charlton pre Covid days could attract good crowds considering the turmoil off the pitch.
We will probably fall short by 4 points or so by the end of the Hull game, yet some how we are finishing 7 and 8th out of 24. Despite the injuries, missed pens, terrible home record and the stench of the previous "owners" still cursing Charlton athletic.
Can you image what we could do if we had our main striker play 35 matches or so;
On the pitch and not us an impact sub !
Another season in League 1 I can handle but not if we get to the edge of our opponents box and then the ball is suddenly passed back and ends up with our keeper.
Home games have been so poor this season bar the 2nd halves against Rochdale, Wimbledon and Lincoln. May be more but I mainly remember the shocking gifts we gave away down the Covered end, plus a couple of worldy's; mainly cock ups.
If not poor then totally passive.
50/50 if I come back after 1200 or so games. I probably will because
"I'm Charlton till I die" my solicitor is using Chizz's tooth comb to see if I can escape.
Every time I click on the link for memberships the page is blank.
Booooooooo!
Right here right now Div3 is step one on TS's ladder to better days.
The scale of Roly's loss making in div3 was in no small way the result of his hopelessly misguided mismanagement. Yes the guaranteed money in div3 isn't huge but the deluded old fool allowed Katrien to alienate commercial partners, offend fans, then piss money away on lengthy costly contracts for some players; numerous misfits from his network were foisted on Charlton's payroll for non-footballing reasons and he hired and fired a list of unsuitable team managers. All surefire means of burning through millions while achieving ever worsening output.
We can all take Thomas's European football bluster with a decent pinch of salt but another season at this level keeps the gradient of his learning curve (and our expectation curve!) manageable.
Maybe his financial assumptions are less optimistic than his public statements. I understand that optimism can be a strategy, but I’d be surprised if he’s planning for multiple seasons in L1. Yet we know that is a risk and any fan who thinks otherwise is simply not being serious.
As for those arguing that L1 is cheaper, yes it is. But you start £5-7m down in revenue because of the EFL funding package, in the main. So the uncontrollable loss is greater.
The "lengthy contracts" were just Nabby, BFG and Igor. Are you suggesting that Katrine, who hadn't been at the club during that financial year had alienation commercial partners to the extent of 400% of our commercial revenue?
Yes the loss could have been less with better management but it would never be anywhere close to zero. Unless you sell a Lookman every year.
We stay down, we have a clear out and build a very competitive side to go up and compete straight away in the 2nd tier.
We somehow go up, we need a mega mega clear out and rebuild which would probably rock the boat so much that even with added quality would result in a survival battle next season.
So in reality it’s strong season third tier Vs poor season second tier, and with us being away from the ground for so long the first option sounds good!