p.s I hate to say it, because I hate the phrase but that was Toxic Masculinity personified to suggest being given more stick and abuse at a young age makes you develop more to become a better man... It is the kind of sh*t that leads to the ridiculously high suicide rate in men and is something I will not stand to read on here without challenge.
Dazzler21 I am not saying "abuse' is "fine". And I certainly not saying "screw anyone's mental health" . I am not sure I would say that putting up with a bit of stick ALWAYS has just negative consequences. It CAN lead to positive outcomes.
I am glad you were able to differentiate between "general stick calling their penalties sh*t and useless" and the very serious crime of racially abusing someone.
I agree with you entirely.
I would also agree with your further comment that there is a difference between "stick" and "abuse".
Most on this site can give a bit of stick in their very reasoned responses to comments to which they disagree. Just one or two I see are perhaps limited in their vocabulary so they abuse.
"Toxic masculinity" ~ I dont know what this is enough to possibly comment. Perhaps it is a way of describing someone who abuses others on forums instead of discussing things!?
I think you open up a very important and necessary discussion also ~ about the high rate of male suicides in this age and the causes.
The precise cause of which we can never be fully party to and it is unlikely (to me) to be attributed solely to the stick one has received.
I've known 4 suicides. The general view of their devastated families as to the "cause" (in THEIR opinion) was generally a lack of opportunities opening up for them as men or a significant relationship ending abruptly and their being unable to cope with these very prevalent realities for men in this age. Making men more resilient to this ever changing chaotic landscape that often sees masculinity as some how "toxic" and to be avoided at all costs, is what I believe will begin to address a significant part of the problem. Beginning with strong male role models who don't see "duty" as a negative term and can model strong fatherhood, strong work ethic and the virtue of being a loyal and loving husband for their children to learn from.
Not sure why @ValleyOfTears post got a lol. I don't agree with it all but he's replying to Dazzler's very good point and expressing himself well and respectfully. What I do agree on is the need to make men more resilient as we don't have the certainties of previous generations, which can be both good and bad: people can leave bad relationships is surely a good thing, but the economic uncertainty and the changes in society that come with that cause loads more problems.
The reaction of a few low lifes explains why England take the knee.
Yep the supposes fans sending racist abuse are probably the same ones that say there is no need to take the knee.
Hope they realise the joy they have brought us and ignore the neanderthals.
The racists and Bigots wouldn't want Black, dual heritage or Asian guys playing for the England team so it was like winning the lottery when the 3 guys missed and the two Harry's scored.
There are Black folk that aren't keen on taking the knee or joining the band wagon that is BLM. Because, just like the white population, some black British folk have different opinions and believe it was better to fight racism with ideas that didn't originate from the USA or share the BLM name. I don't think these Black British are all in the Tory party !
Taking the knee was the players idea and so it can't be wrong but personally for the 2021/22 season I would like to see a new initiative as going down on your knees is the opposite to the ways everyone should live.
I would tell the 3 lads that I condemn the pond life who have reverted to type but I wil be critical of Rashford, Sancho and Saka if?
Well said Soapboxsam. And hopefully at some point we can all focus on the football and the great joy all this team and manager brought us. I've heard almost nothing about Philips, Rice, Sterling, Maguire, Shaw, Walker and Pickford. We should be talking about the unbelievable effort and graft and skill with which these players particularly the first four gave.
Portsmouth have fired/released three players over racist abuse so that's positive, even if the investigation seems to have taken a long time - presumably to make sure it was suitably thorough.
The BBC's File on 4 programme has been investigating online racism within football to try to find out why such abuse was sent to England's players after the Euro 2020 final.
The programme approached a number of these trolls, and one man who racially abused Bukayo Saka online says he now wants to apologise.
Saka, Marcus Rashford and Jadon Sancho all received a torrent of racist abuse online after missing penalties in the final.
One troll - a man in his early twenties from Saudi Arabia - sent Saka a number of monkey emojis on Instagram.
His Instagram account was suspended for 24 hours as a result, but says now he should have been banned from social media for longer.
As was expected and posted on here at the time, not many of these trolls will have been 'proper' England fans.
On another note though, the 24 hour ban is pathetic. I know there would be ways around it, but at least give him a life ban to set an example.
BBC track down a single troll and happens to be someone from Saudi Arabia. Hmm.
Have a look this weekend at the replies at players after simple post-match tweets. You'd be surprised the sheer number of racial abuse there is, not all from Saudi Arabia.
Twitter should not be anonymous, there is no doubt about that. But I can't fathom why footballers or anyone open themselves up to hearing what these bottom feeders think.
If I walk into a pub and see a lot of 'undesireables' I leave or at least steer clear.
I don't walk up to them & join in their conversations. I'm not interested in what they think or say.
Comments
I am not saying "abuse' is "fine". And I certainly not saying "screw anyone's mental health" . I am not sure I would say that putting up with a bit of stick ALWAYS has just negative consequences. It CAN lead to positive outcomes.
I am glad you were able to differentiate between "general stick calling their penalties sh*t and useless" and the very serious crime of racially abusing someone.
I agree with you entirely.
I would also agree with your further comment that there is a difference between "stick" and "abuse".
Most on this site can give a bit of stick in their very reasoned responses to comments to which they disagree. Just one or two I see are perhaps limited in their vocabulary so they abuse.
"Toxic masculinity" ~ I dont know what this is enough to possibly comment. Perhaps it is a way of describing someone who abuses others on forums instead of discussing things!?
I think you open up a very important and necessary discussion also ~ about the high rate of male suicides in this age and the causes.
The precise cause of which we can never be fully party to and it is unlikely (to me) to be attributed solely to the stick one has received.
I've known 4 suicides. The general view of their devastated families as to the "cause" (in THEIR opinion) was generally a lack of opportunities opening up for them as men or a significant relationship ending abruptly and their being unable to cope with these very prevalent realities for men in this age.
Making men more resilient to this ever changing chaotic landscape that often sees masculinity as some how "toxic" and to be avoided at all costs, is what I believe will begin to address a significant part of the problem. Beginning with strong male role models who don't see "duty" as a negative term and can model strong fatherhood, strong work ethic and the virtue of being a loyal and loving husband for their children to learn from.
The racists and Bigots wouldn't want Black, dual heritage or Asian guys playing for the England team so it was like winning the lottery when the 3 guys missed and the two Harry's scored.
There are Black folk that aren't keen on taking the knee or joining the band wagon that is BLM. Because, just like the white population, some black British folk have different opinions and believe it was better to fight racism with ideas that didn't originate from the USA or share the BLM name. I don't think these Black British are all in the Tory party !
Taking the knee was the players idea and so it can't be wrong but personally for the 2021/22 season I would like to see a new initiative as going down on your knees is the opposite to the ways everyone should live.
I would tell the 3 lads that I condemn the pond life who have reverted to type but I wil be critical of Rashford, Sancho and Saka if?
THEY MAKE A PIZZA ADVERT.
Love always wins,
Bukayo Saka, MBE
Love that. Don't have any other words.
He is going places. He will be taking another penalty for England at some point and he's going to bury it. It will mean something.
The BBC's File on 4 programme has been investigating online racism within football to try to find out why such abuse was sent to England's players after the Euro 2020 final.
The programme approached a number of these trolls, and one man who racially abused Bukayo Saka online says he now wants to apologise.
Saka, Marcus Rashford and Jadon Sancho all received a torrent of racist abuse online after missing penalties in the final.
One troll - a man in his early twenties from Saudi Arabia - sent Saka a number of monkey emojis on Instagram.
His Instagram account was suspended for 24 hours as a result, but says now he should have been banned from social media for longer.
As was expected and posted on here at the time, not many of these trolls will have been 'proper' England fans.
On another note though, the 24 hour ban is pathetic. I know there would be ways around it, but at least give him a life ban to set an example.
Have a look this weekend at the replies at players after simple post-match tweets. You'd be surprised the sheer number of racial abuse there is, not all from Saudi Arabia.
But I can't fathom why footballers or anyone open themselves up to hearing what these bottom feeders think.
If I walk into a pub and see a lot of 'undesireables' I leave or at least steer clear.
I don't walk up to them & join in their conversations.
I'm not interested in what they think or say.
You can't arrest 1%/5% of the population.
Is that Andy Scott who asked him?