Charlton v Wimbledon ((EFL Cup) - Post Match Thread

killerandflash

soapboxsam said:

Pleased I went last night !

I needed to see for myself the latest crop of player who are being given the opportunity for the gateway to the first team squad.

And there lies our strength and weakness.
Great that we continue to let the parents of children who join our academy know there is that chance to go all the way to our first team. At the moment we have a couple of really talented 13 and 14 year olds we are trying not to lose to CAT A Academies. Joe Gomez's dad is a great help in giving chats to our best young kids and their parents.

The weaknesses; are they good enough ?

3 very reliable sources, who don't know each other told me verbatim about Ademola Lookman and why he joined Cafc at 16. The reason was his agent/rep said Ademola will come to Cafc if within 18 months he is given an opportunity to play in the first team IF, and obviously a big IF his form in U18 or U21 warrants the opportunity. Ademola did impress and the rest is history.

Joe Aribo went from a tall all arms and legs defender in a Foundation to the attacking midfielder, comfortable on the ball once he came to Cafc via Staines FC.

As an ex salesman, this really is our USP the problem we will have going forward is we need to keep the good ones, and realize double quick the players who will struggle.

That is the skill in youth development, even though it's not an exact science because of growth spurts and strength.

But of the younger players who featured last night, only Deji2 and Powell were actually academy players

Clayden arrived because Orient don't have an U23 team, Davison and Ghandour were picked up from non league while Roddy was obviously introduced by his old man. I really doubt that we were fighting off Palace and Chelsea to sign those 4 players, indeed I imagine they would have signed any contract we put in front of them, just to get back into professional football

Jonniesta

JamesSeed said:

AFKABartram said:

kentred2 said:

Last night is a classic example of why you need to take cup games seriously. Winning football matches is what matters. The club is now surrounded by negativity by gifting the match to Wimbledon.

Just to be clear, Wimbledon played a team largely of kids as well. They just performed better as a team. 

Hadn’t realised to what extent Wimbledon changed their team from Saturday, although not sure of the players ages. They looked older, certainly some were much bigger. Either way, that’s very alarming. Wimbledon on this evidence are way ahead of us. 

My half full glass is beginning to look a bit empty. 

Not too surprising when you consider that's Doncaster's line up on the right!!

milo

Southbank said:

Dazzler21 said:

JoshrewCAFC said:

Tonight emphasised our lack of squad depth.

Was also disappointed that our midfield struggled to have much of a presence despite being fairly strong.

Ancient Watson would have been a big part of their inability to excel. 

I'd have started Dobbie.

Dobson and Stockley made no difference when they came on. In fact one of the worrying things was that Stockley won no headers against the AFC centre back.

That's not totally fair on Dobson and Stockley, they did both manage to get our only yellow cards of the game.

Dazzler21

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

Dazzler21

.

Valley11

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

It’s not insulting, it’s true. Albie has one goal and five assists in the 50 odd appearances since making his debut. That’s mediocre. 

I’m not one for digging players out and that’s not what I’m doing here. He’s young and will approve. But saying he is ‘gold’ and expecting him to be this season’s playmaker is foolish IMHO. 

msomerton

We cannot suggest it is Adkins fault that so few good new players brought into the squad. He can only do so if the owner makes the money available.
It would seem TS reluctant to do so, assuming he can afford too.

Croydon

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

Mediocre is harsh, I agree. But it's not just two games. He's not really kicked on to the level that we as a fanbase think he should be at. This season it simply has to happen for Albie.

Dazzler21

Croydon said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

Mediocre is harsh, I agree. But it's not just two games. He's not really kicked on to the level that we as a fanbase think he should be at. This season it simply has to happen for Albie.

I agree with that. 

But people seem to give other players the same age as Albie less stick, purely because he's been in and around it longer. 

soapboxsam

killerandflash said:

soapboxsam said:

Pleased I went last night !

I needed to see for myself the latest crop of player who are being given the opportunity for the gateway to the first team squad.

And there lies our strength and weakness.
Great that we continue to let the parents of children who join our academy know there is that chance to go all the way to our first team. At the moment we have a couple of really talented 13 and 14 year olds we are trying not to lose to CAT A Academies. Joe Gomez's dad is a great help in giving chats to our best young kids and their parents.

The weaknesses; are they good enough ?

3 very reliable sources, who don't know each other told me verbatim about Ademola Lookman and why he joined Cafc at 16. The reason was his agent/rep said Ademola will come to Cafc if within 18 months he is given an opportunity to play in the first team IF, and obviously a big IF his form in U18 or U21 warrants the opportunity. Ademola did impress and the rest is history.

Joe Aribo went from a tall all arms and legs defender in a Foundation to the attacking midfielder, comfortable on the ball once he came to Cafc via Staines FC.

As an ex salesman, this really is our USP the problem we will have going forward is we need to keep the good ones, and realize double quick the players who will struggle.

That is the skill in youth development, even though it's not an exact science because of growth spurts and strength.

But of the younger players who featured last night, only Deji2 and Powell were actually academy players

Clayden arrived because Orient don't have an U23 team, Davison and Ghandour were picked up from non league while Roddy was obviously introduced by his old man. I really doubt that we were fighting off Palace and Chelsea to sign those 4 players, indeed I imagine they would have signed any contract we put in front of them, just to get back into professional football

Agree with the 4 players you mentioned as they are older other than Roddy, and are given another chance in the tough world of Pro football where A trialist will go anywhere to try to received  a pro contract.

Deji looked the most assured at 17, and had a good battle with Presley; Raw as you would expect but talented on my first sight of him. ( We had two big black CB in our u18 in the two games on you tube last season, was Deji one of those guys ?)

Nigel mentioned the Gateway to the first team last night so I imagine others from our successful U18 will get their opportunity as well as Deji. Especially if we keep getting knock backs with our attempts to get players in who have options.

Dazzler21

Valley11 said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

It’s not insulting, it’s true. Albie has one goal and five assists in the 50 odd appearances since making his debut. That’s mediocre. 

I’m not one for digging players out and that’s not what I’m doing here. He’s young and will approve. But saying he is ‘gold’ and expecting him to be this season’s playmaker is foolish IMHO. 

If we're picking stats, he's played 73 times, assisted 12 goals and scored 2 in "First team competitions" for Charlton. 

Technically last season he got 2 goals and 6 assists in 31 games (all Comps).

When you look at all of that, he is hardly "mediocre" for a 20/21 year old. 

mendonca

Maybe it's showing that Albie never had a season on loan at a team to develop. Instead his Manager said he'll develop him but it all turned a bit stop/start/catty. He is now going to be given a run of games, so lets assess him after 10 games firstly.

I'd be interested to see if he learns and develops in each game. 

Bedsaddick

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

Me neither . He works hard but he panics in front of goal . He takes free kicks but rarely threatens from them . He takes a good corner , I’ll give him that .  I really do hope he comes good but I’m not seeing it at the moment. 

oohaahmortimer

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

It’s not insulting, it’s true. Albie has one goal and five assists in the 50 odd appearances since making his debut. That’s mediocre. 

I’m not one for digging players out and that’s not what I’m doing here. He’s young and will approve. But saying he is ‘gold’ and expecting him to be this season’s playmaker is foolish IMHO. 

If we're picking stats, he's played 73 times, assisted 12 goals and scored 2 in "First team competitions" for Charlton. 

Technically last season he got 2 goals and 6 assists in 31 games (all Comps).

When you look at all of that, he is hardly "mediocre" for a 20/21 year old. 

league stats please , not the cup where it’s Mickey Mouse teams put out mainly .

hoof_it_up_to_benty

If we dont strengthen the squad I will start to wonder why TS bought Charlton and NA took the job? Simply not strong enough?

oohaahmortimer

Emperors new clothes , I don’t see it and I’d hope in this shithosue league any one of any decent quality would stand out ….

Dazzler21

oohaahmortimer said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

It’s not insulting, it’s true. Albie has one goal and five assists in the 50 odd appearances since making his debut. That’s mediocre. 

I’m not one for digging players out and that’s not what I’m doing here. He’s young and will approve. But saying he is ‘gold’ and expecting him to be this season’s playmaker is foolish IMHO. 

If we're picking stats, he's played 73 times, assisted 12 goals and scored 2 in "First team competitions" for Charlton. 

Technically last season he got 2 goals and 6 assists in 31 games (all Comps).

When you look at all of that, he is hardly "mediocre" for a 20/21 year old. 

league stats please , not the cup where it’s Mickey Mouse teams put out mainly .

LMAO So only the stats you want to see? This despite him getting shit on, on this thread for playing in A CUP. 

killerandflash

soapboxsam said:

killerandflash said:

soapboxsam said:

Pleased I went last night !

I needed to see for myself the latest crop of player who are being given the opportunity for the gateway to the first team squad.

And there lies our strength and weakness.
Great that we continue to let the parents of children who join our academy know there is that chance to go all the way to our first team. At the moment we have a couple of really talented 13 and 14 year olds we are trying not to lose to CAT A Academies. Joe Gomez's dad is a great help in giving chats to our best young kids and their parents.

The weaknesses; are they good enough ?

3 very reliable sources, who don't know each other told me verbatim about Ademola Lookman and why he joined Cafc at 16. The reason was his agent/rep said Ademola will come to Cafc if within 18 months he is given an opportunity to play in the first team IF, and obviously a big IF his form in U18 or U21 warrants the opportunity. Ademola did impress and the rest is history.

Joe Aribo went from a tall all arms and legs defender in a Foundation to the attacking midfielder, comfortable on the ball once he came to Cafc via Staines FC.

As an ex salesman, this really is our USP the problem we will have going forward is we need to keep the good ones, and realize double quick the players who will struggle.

That is the skill in youth development, even though it's not an exact science because of growth spurts and strength.

But of the younger players who featured last night, only Deji2 and Powell were actually academy players

Clayden arrived because Orient don't have an U23 team, Davison and Ghandour were picked up from non league while Roddy was obviously introduced by his old man. I really doubt that we were fighting off Palace and Chelsea to sign those 4 players, indeed I imagine they would have signed any contract we put in front of them, just to get back into professional football

Agree with the 4 players you mentioned as they are older other than Roddy, and are given another chance in the tough world of Pro football where A trialist will go anywhere to try to received  a pro contract.

Deji looked the most assured at 17, and had a good battle with Presley; Raw as you would expect but talented on my first sight of him. ( We had two big black CB in our u18 in the two games on you tube last season, was Deji one of those guys ?)

Nigel mentioned the Gateway to the first team last night so I imagine others from our successful U18 will get their opportunity as well as Deji. Especially if we keep getting knock backs with our attempts to get players in who have options.

Yes, Deji  was part of that very good U18 team

By contrast, our U23 side last season was pretty average

Dave2l

I don't give a toss about any of the cups. Waste of time, we don't have a big enough squad for it and we won't go far.

I just want Charlton to get the f*ck out of league one. Yesterday's defeat did us a favour.
It was also a good run out, warming up and a learning curve for players and management.
Let's just defeat Oxford!!!

And sign 5-6 more players before September!

cabbles

JamesSeed said:

AFKABartram said:

kentred2 said:

Last night is a classic example of why you need to take cup games seriously. Winning football matches is what matters. The club is now surrounded by negativity by gifting the match to Wimbledon.

Just to be clear, Wimbledon played a team largely of kids as well. They just performed better as a team. 

Hadn’t realised to what extent Wimbledon changed their team from Saturday, although not sure of the players ages. They looked older, certainly some were much bigger. Either way, that’s very alarming. Wimbledon on this evidence are way ahead of us. 

My half full glass is beginning to look a bit empty. 

My best friend supports them and was sitting with us in the west lower last night.  I asked how many of them were first teamers half way through the first half and he said one or two.  He did say that a few of them have had first team experience, probably more than our players that played.

He also said that one of the frustrating things about the start of the season is expectation among fans.  Every football fan is excited about the start of the season and this one more than most given what has happened.  If you go 2 games without scoring and only one shot on goal that’s a dampener 

I hope/expect more on Sat.  If we have a similar attacking performance to Sheff Wed and last night, then it will be frustrating.

I just think we need to just have a bit of perspective.  Let’s see how the window ends and go from there.  

charlton_hero

Bedsaddick said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

Me neither . He works hard but he panics in front of goal . He takes free kicks but rarely threatens from them . He takes a good corner , I’ll give him that .  I really do hope he comes good but I’m not seeing it at the moment. 

His corners have been poor so far, we need to replace Shinnie, he was our best corner taker last season imo.

JamesSeed

Jonniesta said:

JamesSeed said:

AFKABartram said:

kentred2 said:

Last night is a classic example of why you need to take cup games seriously. Winning football matches is what matters. The club is now surrounded by negativity by gifting the match to Wimbledon.

Just to be clear, Wimbledon played a team largely of kids as well. They just performed better as a team. 

Hadn’t realised to what extent Wimbledon changed their team from Saturday, although not sure of the players ages. They looked older, certainly some were much bigger. Either way, that’s very alarming. Wimbledon on this evidence are way ahead of us. 

My half full glass is beginning to look a bit empty. 

Not too surprising when you consider that's Doncaster's line up on the right!!

Lol That’s not embarrassing at all! 😭😭

soapboxsam

There is a big difference in ambition between AFC Wimbledon and Charlton.

Cafc were in the Premier (tier 1) in 2002 when the phoenix club were reborn and 230 players turned up to an open trial on the common.
Soon after they joined the Combined counties League (Tier 9/10.)

Not going to repeat " we should be beating teams like Wimbledon" similar to a Northern Manager about Cafc, But it does show the level we are at opposed to the days we would beat the likes of Chelsea or West ham during the naughties.

mendonca

Just seen the highlights. Great ball by Deji to Davison for the one on one.

He never looked like scoring to me. I hope Josh and Albie will soon stop with the overly dramatic reaction to when their strikes fail to hit the net. Neither has a great goalscoring rate and it's always better to learn (maybe critically evaluate your technique) than think why me again.

kentred2

AFKABartram said:

kentred2 said:

Last night is a classic example of why you need to take cup games seriously. Winning football matches is what matters. The club is now surrounded by negativity by gifting the match to Wimbledon.

Just to be clear, Wimbledon played a team largely of kids as well. They just performed better as a team. 

So an even greater chance to win. 

oohaahmortimer

Dazzler21 said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Dazzler21 said:

Valley11 said:

Do you really see gold in Albie? I really never have. What has he done to suggest he’s an enigma? He looks like a very mediocre footballer to me. A nice kid for sure but I don’t see this classy midfielder that everyone else does. Might just be me. 

 I get people may not see his full ability, but mediocre is simply insulting he has a great eye for a pass and a wide range of passing. He's used to being able to use that range instead of so far in these TWO games being forced to pump it long in the air. His shots before now have usually been on target too, if not particularly threatening. 

As always with football, people forget the detail, a playmaker will often play the ball where they expect the run to go, it's the receiving players job to get on the end of the ball. (Obviously wildly inaccurate kicks don't count towards that).

It’s not insulting, it’s true. Albie has one goal and five assists in the 50 odd appearances since making his debut. That’s mediocre. 

I’m not one for digging players out and that’s not what I’m doing here. He’s young and will approve. But saying he is ‘gold’ and expecting him to be this season’s playmaker is foolish IMHO. 

If we're picking stats, he's played 73 times, assisted 12 goals and scored 2 in "First team competitions" for Charlton. 

Technically last season he got 2 goals and 6 assists in 31 games (all Comps).

When you look at all of that, he is hardly "mediocre" for a 20/21 year old. 

league stats please , not the cup where it’s Mickey Mouse teams put out mainly .

LMAO So only the stats you want to see? This despite him getting shit on, on this thread for playing in A CUP. 

League one / championship matches carry weight
pizza cup
fa cup
league cup 
not so much
i think he’s done nothing to make me think he’ll be a championship regular and that’s where I see us at  but my expectancy for Charlton is higher than most 

Dazzler21

https://youtu.be/GzAZG1232rw

For the goal,
Roddy's indecision to tackle gets it wrong,
Pearce is marking space, not a man because Roddy doesn't make a tackle and
Deji is pulled across to mark Pearce's man. 
Gunter moves to cover Deji's man, meaning
Gunter's man is open to shoot and score. 

(Worryingly Watson is just watching it all unfold from the penalty spot) 

Roddy's lack of confidence in making the tackle led to the goal, he will learn from it. 

Roddy followed this up with a goal line interception. If he does nothing it's 2-0. Disappointingly nobody went over to congratulate him on it. 

KingKinsella

addick19 said:

Gravesend_Addick said:

Attendance:

3,372

Sums up how the majority of fans feel about the competition. 

On to Saturday 

About ANY cup competition to be fair. Haven't attended one for ages as result is usually a foregone conclusion. Charlton are just one of many who put out weak teams and who can blame them?

We are all different- I prefer Cup games (FA mainly) to league games. Away teams come out and attack as Wimbledon did last night. No sitting back , lets defend even when we don't have to.


I did go last night- most of the "young bloods " played well but also made (occasional) mistakes, as you might expect. 

JamesSeed

cabbles said:

JamesSeed said:

AFKABartram said:

kentred2 said:

Last night is a classic example of why you need to take cup games seriously. Winning football matches is what matters. The club is now surrounded by negativity by gifting the match to Wimbledon.

Just to be clear, Wimbledon played a team largely of kids as well. They just performed better as a team. 

Hadn’t realised to what extent Wimbledon changed their team from Saturday, although not sure of the players ages. They looked older, certainly some were much bigger. Either way, that’s very alarming. Wimbledon on this evidence are way ahead of us. 

My half full glass is beginning to look a bit empty. 

My best friend supports them and was sitting with us in the west lower last night.  I asked how many of them were first teamers half way through the first half and he said one or two.  He did say that a few of them have had first team experience, probably more than our players that played.

He also said that one of the frustrating things about the start of the season is expectation among fans.  Every football fan is excited about the start of the season and this one more than most given what has happened.  If you go 2 games without scoring and only one shot on goal that’s a dampener 

I hope/expect more on Sat.  If we have a similar attacking performance to Sheff Wed and last night, then it will be frustrating.

I just think we need to just have a bit of perspective.  Let’s see how the window ends and go from there.  

Finally. Wimbledon team v us yesterday on the left, and the team that played in Saturday’s L1 match v Doncaster…. apologies for being so useless.
Eight changes?

jimmymelrose

Gravesend_Addick said:

Attendance:

3,372

Sums up how the majority of fans feel about the competition. 

On to Saturday 




Is it how thé fans really feel about the competition or is it that the fans know how the club feel about the competition?

It's because we never take it seriously that fans didn't go imo.

It's The League Cup ffs. It's not like the 'Mama Joan Cup' or whatever it's called.

How can it be important to Man City but not to Charlton Athletic?