I'm sure I said when we signed kirk that we needed to sign his team mate Pickering if my memory is working or someone who would really get up and support him and have the engine to defend as well but essentially do a lot of running a bit like Wiggins used to do overlapping Jacko and taking a defender with him but not necessarily see the ball but give Kirk space to do his thing which is put balls into the box that Mandron used to attack for Crewe. We got him and didn't play to his strengths or try and accommodate him because we didn't have a full back in the squad like that which is weird when you think we paid a fee for him and probably a decent one too. Pickering might have been out of our price range and certainly him and Kirk together considering we also paid money for Jayesemi.
I think a move down south was always going to be hard for him, he is a human being and a young one who had just lost his dad, to then move away from your family when you all would have needed one another emotionally and just hit the ground running at a club with very high expectations and not a huge deal of patience was a massive ask. I hope he can get a move and come good because there is absolutely a good player in there but I dont think we will see that player. Hope we do but I don't think he is happy and happy players play better
We had the overlapping wing back last night in Edun until he was taken off and at times they linked up well.
I agree Kirk probably isn’t happy which doesn’t help but I also think his style isn’t what fans expect in a winger. Wide attackers are expected to be exciting to watch, usually by taking players on with pace and/or skill. Those that don’t do that have to have something else to their game, and they can make up for it with their work rate.
None of those are Kirk’s strengths. He’s an unusual wide player in that he’ll be tidy on the ball and keep possession until the space opens up to play a dangerous pass, pick out a cross or have a shot.
If he added more energy and urgency to that I think he’d get more fans onside as he’s got the ability to score and create goals.
With our defending being our big weakness at the moment I wouldn’t give him a run of games, we don’t need a player who floats through matches in the way he does. With the new signings he may struggle to get a place on the bench, though if CBT and the two Campbells start then we might want him on the bench as our only other wide attacker in the squad.
Re-reading page 1 of this thread is quite funny now. He's gone from being a signing representing a bold statement of ambition to being booed by his own fans just for turning out as if he's some pantomime villain, which I'm sure he's aware of and I fail to see how that benefits either him or us.
@ForeverAddickted sums it up perfectly. Loads of others were pretty poor.... (Roddy anyone?!) but they don't get their own thread started up. I doubt he will ever be near the first team in league matches, and we know he is available to leave. I am sure he would love to leave to get a fresh start (we have all been in jobs before where we are not 100% happy). But if he cant, then playing in a EFL cup game isn't exactly the end of the world.
I would argue we should be more concerned about the performances of the likes of Taylor, Tedic, Ness who are all likely to actually have a direct impact on our season!
Rather than playground ganging up on someone who isn't even going to affect how well we do. There are more important things going on at our club than one player who will leave eventually. But whilst he is here, there is no need to make the guys life a misery.
How many times has Kirk been pretty good though? He's virtually always pretty poor and has been with us long enough now. That's why he has his own thread.
He's a luxury player who hasn't delivered. We already have Fraser as our luxury player who at least delivers from time to time but I simply don't see the point of a wide player who has no pace, won't attack the full back and on last night's evidence is happy to just pass it back 9 times out of 10 - yes he can cross a ball but how often does he get himself in a position to do that? Once a game?
I've always thought of Kirk as our own Jadon Sancho.
Both tricky wingers, both arrived at their new clubs with good records and reputations - giving real hope to the fans. Both big money signings (Sancho £73 million, Kirk £500,000 ) Sancho has scored 12 goals and 6 assists in 82 appearances for United, Kirk 3 goals in 45 appearances for us, both earning way too much - Sancho £300,000 a week - Kirk somewhat less. Both failures in their respective levels.
Sancho has taken 30 million quid in wages since joining United, Kirk (reportedly) doing very nicely thank you as a high earner in League One - and according to some - stealing a living.
Anyway it seems Ten Hag is getting the right hump with Sancho and started calling him out. Dunno if this approach works, but the arm around the shoulder hasn't.
He's a luxury player who hasn't delivered. We already have Fraser as our luxury player who at least delivers from time to time but I simply don't see the point of a wide player who has no pace, won't attack the full back and on last night's evidence is happy to just pass it back 9 times out of 10 - yes he can cross a ball but how often does he get himself in a position to do that? Once a game?
He’s the reverse CBT. If he gets in the right position he should deliver a good ball, but as he doesn’t take players on and play with any intensity it doesn’t happen often.
CBT gets himself in those positions multiple times a game through his pace. It might often lead to nothing but he does it so regularly that eventually it’ll lead to a goal or an assist.
Fraser almost scored double figures last season and got a decent number of assists, and at times helped us control games. Can see why he’s called a luxury player but he adds more than Kirk does, and he plays in the middle rather than benefiting from a wide attacking role where there should be more space.
When we lost a few weeks ago, he didn't even come off the bench, and someone wrote a post criticising his warm-up
That was me. His half time warm up was a joke and he treated it as such. It was unprofessional. I've never posted on here criticising his perfomance in game time but I didn't think what he did was right and smacked of a lack of professionalism.
When we lost a few weeks ago, he didn't even come off the bench, and someone wrote a post criticising his warm-up
That was me. His half time warm up was a joke and he treated it as such. It was unprofessional. I've never posted on here criticising his perfomance in game time but I didn't think what he did was right and smacked of a lack of professionalism.
Literally the half time warm up is always a joke, the players just play keepy uppy with eachother and fuck about trying to hit the crossbar and stuff, it happens every game at every club up and down the country.
He wasn't great tonight, but no better or worse than half the side. But as I said in the match thread people will bash him because it's the in vogue thing to do. I'm sure half of them just watch what he does over the 90 mins to try and pick out any and every negative.
Yes people are quick to criticise but he makes it so easy. He’s not a youngster so doesn’t get the inexperience let off. He strolls round doing very little and we don’t need enough of the few positives he does have. I don’t get why some people like you are so quick to defend him.
I don't think its a case of being quick to defend him
We lost 4-3 tonight... But he wasn't the worst player out there, he wasn't the sole reason for the loss, and was no more at fault for any of the goals, certainly no more than any of our other wide players.
If he'd literally given the opposition the ball, which set them up to score, or did a dodgy back pass then yeah I'd agree with comment picking him out tonight.
Had Dobson scored the chance at the end, Kirk would be walking off with an assist at the very least... On the other hand what did Tedic do, what did Taylor do, that helps them to stand out as Pros tonight, to avoid any complaints on their threads?
I take the point but it was Tedic's debut and Taylor has barely played, Kirk is now approaching 50 appearances for the club. I get he is somewhat scapegoated but he's brought a lot of that on himself by just how poor he has been for us for 90% of the matches he's played.
Absolutely, don't get me wrong either... I certainly listen to Sage as well when he talks about Charlie's lack of effort, as he tends to be very much on the money about individuals both at the club, and outside.
Think on the long run its best for Kirk to move on, given his career here. But like with tonight, if we lose, and Charlie's played... the comments verge on meme territory
see I disagree. Sometimes sure it's a little OTT, although not seen much of that tonight. But I just can't see how any kind of defence of Kirk is yeah he was crap but so were others. Whether he was the worst player or not (and he wasn't tonight), it shouldn't shield him from criticism. There's zero credit in the bank, I would never boo him or not want him to do well whilst he is in a Charlton shirt but there's very little chance he can turn his career round with us, and he doesn't seem to care.
If that criticism was kept to the Post Match Thread, then yeah I agree - But like with Morgan last season, his performances get mentioned on there, and then on his own thread, like he's being singled out... If similar was done after every poor performance by others, it wouldn't bother me so much.
Probably shouldn't bother me as much as it does regardless
But reminds me of the School Playground.
I partly agree, it’s also a thread about Charlie Kirk so don’t see why it can’t be discussed on here too. Make you right about singled out, I just don’t see it as a problem because it’s somewhat justified.
Re-reading page 1 of this thread is quite funny now. He's gone from being a signing representing a bold statement of ambition to being booed by his own fans just for turning out as if he's some pantomime villain, which I'm sure he's aware of and I fail to see how that benefits either him or us.
I think that is part of the problem. Expectations were very high and so there is a higher level of frustration and disapointment. No reason to personally abuse him though and he should be supported when he puts of a Charlton shirt, but footballers can't and shouldn't escape criticism for their performances in my opinion as long as it doesn't get personal. There is another side to this coin if they do well and that is the game they are in.
I think his confidence is shot. His tactic appears to be, get rid of the ball as soon as it comes to him, usually one touch. That generally shows little thought other that pass the responsibility to someone else, and move around thus looking busy. I wonder what his opta stats say about his actual involvement in games, I. E how much positive impact and involvement he has on the game and result.
Does a table exist?. If it does, that's probably why multiple managers at Charlton have sidelined him when fit, and accommodated just about any alternative.
It was very telling about 3-4 games ago, when losing at half time, that Curbs said it was last chance saloon for him to prove himself as a player and if not move him on. Clearly neither has happened.
I hear that the squad like him, well I'm sure he's a lovely likeable lad, but a good footballer he isn't. Let him warm some other clubs bench please Mr Scott.
To be fair, at the start of that season we had DJ who had finished the last season really strongly and was getting talked up by Adkins, Stockley had 8 goals in 22 games and we fought off Pompey to get him, and Kirk was one of the highest of not the highest chances creators in L1. We just destroyed them as footballers
I feel sorry for the lad. His performances, and the failure by the club to offload him this window, seem to have made him almost unemployable at this level, and the one below. He may have to go down another level still before there is any interest in him. Very sad.
I said when we signed him I know a lad who played with Kirk all the way through the ranks and into the 1st team. He told me that Kirk can be fantastic when things are going well, a truly gifted footballer but you wouldn’t want him the the trenches with you. I think that sums him up pretty well things haven’t been good at the club and I really think that has affected his performances. Although I honestly can’t see a way back now for the kid and it’s a shame he couldn’t get a move to try and rebuild his career
The issue is the wages he is getting. Other clubs can see he is not worth it and when he is out of contract he will be taken on at a lower wage level. It could be League One or League Two but we paid for a player we thought he was and not the player we got. I thought he was a good signing at the time so have to hold my hands up.
The issue is the wages he is getting. Other clubs can see he is not worth it and when he is out of contract he will be taken on at a lower wage level. It could be League One or League Two but we paid for a player we thought he was and not the player we got. I thought he was a good signing at the time so have to hold my hands up.
To be fair, everyone thought he was going to be a good signing
Comments
I criticise and praise based on what I see. He didn't play any worse than 6 or 7 others last night.
I agree Kirk probably isn’t happy which doesn’t help but I also think his style isn’t what fans expect in a winger. Wide attackers are expected to be exciting to watch, usually by taking players on with pace and/or skill. Those that don’t do that have to have something else to their game, and they can make up for it with their work rate.
None of those are Kirk’s strengths. He’s an unusual wide player in that he’ll be tidy on the ball and keep possession until the space opens up to play a dangerous pass, pick out a cross or have a shot.
If he added more energy and urgency to that I think he’d get more fans onside as he’s got the ability to score and create goals.
With our defending being our big weakness at the moment I wouldn’t give him a run of games, we don’t need a player who floats through matches in the way he does. With the new signings he may struggle to get a place on the bench, though if CBT and the two Campbells start then we might want him on the bench as our only other wide attacker in the squad.
Both tricky wingers, both arrived at their new clubs with good records and reputations - giving real hope to the fans. Both big money signings (Sancho £73 million, Kirk £500,000
Sancho has taken 30 million quid in wages since joining United, Kirk (reportedly) doing very nicely thank you as a high earner in League One - and according to some - stealing a living.
Anyway it seems Ten Hag is getting the right hump with Sancho and started calling him out. Dunno if this approach works, but the arm around the shoulder hasn't.
CBT gets himself in those positions multiple times a game through his pace. It might often lead to nothing but he does it so regularly that eventually it’ll lead to a goal or an assist.
Fraser almost scored double figures last season and got a decent number of assists, and at times helped us control games. Can see why he’s called a luxury player but he adds more than Kirk does, and he plays in the middle rather than benefiting from a wide attacking role where there should be more space.
His half time warm up was a joke and he treated it as such. It was unprofessional. I've never posted on here criticising his perfomance in game time but I didn't think what he did was right and smacked of a lack of professionalism.
Does a table exist?. If it does, that's probably why multiple managers at Charlton have sidelined him when fit, and accommodated just about any alternative.
It was very telling about 3-4 games ago, when losing at half time, that Curbs said it was last chance saloon for him to prove himself as a player and if not move him on. Clearly neither has happened.
I hear that the squad like him, well I'm sure he's a lovely likeable lad, but a good footballer he isn't. Let him warm some other clubs bench please Mr Scott.
I wonder how much that affects him mentally and whether it's dragging down performance?
I expect lols from the 'he is a footballer and should deal with it' brigade
i read this as I sipped water. Water is now all over my shorts.
He may have to go down another level still before there is any interest in him.
Very sad.
How does a player with 181 appearances and 29 goals in L2 and L1 in his time with Crewe turn into what we saw on the pitch today?
I am baffled.