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ULEZ Checker

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  • cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    Shaun Bailey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Bailey,_Baron_Bailey_of_Paddington

    Was the previous Tory candidate for Mayor, now (FFS) he is Baron Bailey of Paddington.

    Good gig that eh Susan (who stole the purse I dropped?) Hall? Fail in the election but get made Lady Hall of Hounslow or wherever and have a paid job (attendance allowance) doing sfa for life.


    For every Baron Bailey there is a Lord Kinnock. 
    That is an absolutely laughable comparison
    Why?
    I can't believe I have to spell this out - but Neil Kinnock was leader of the opposition for eleven years. He was an immensely respected politician, on both sides of the house. Attempting to draw some sort of parallel between him and Bailey is absolutely ludicrous. 
    The original.poster made reference to a person that got rewarded for losing an election by being made a Baron.

    Correct if I am wrong here but I am certain Kinnock lost an election, and also got rewarded, no? (I'm sure he lost more than 1 election too)

    So how comes my comparison is ludicrous?

    Pretty certain he wanted to get rid on unelected peers too, albeit I am happy to be corrected on that.



  • cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    Shaun Bailey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Bailey,_Baron_Bailey_of_Paddington

    Was the previous Tory candidate for Mayor, now (FFS) he is Baron Bailey of Paddington.

    Good gig that eh Susan (who stole the purse I dropped?) Hall? Fail in the election but get made Lady Hall of Hounslow or wherever and have a paid job (attendance allowance) doing sfa for life.


    For every Baron Bailey there is a Lord Kinnock. 
    That is an absolutely laughable comparison
    Why?
    I can't believe I have to spell this out - but Neil Kinnock was leader of the opposition for eleven years. He was an immensely respected politician, on both sides of the house. Attempting to draw some sort of parallel between him and Bailey is absolutely ludicrous. 
    The original.poster made reference to a person that got rewarded for losing an election by being made a Baron.

    Correct if I am wrong here but I am certain Kinnock lost an election, and also got rewarded, no? (I'm sure he lost more than 1 election too)

    So how comes my comparison is ludicrous?

    Pretty certain he wanted to get rid on unelected peers too, albeit I am happy to be corrected on that.



    I'm going to assume that you're quite young? And that you're not aware of the manner and criteria under which life peerages are (or used to be, at least) assigned? It's not based on whether or not you lost an election 🤦🏽‍♂️
  • edited April 29
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    Shaun Bailey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Bailey,_Baron_Bailey_of_Paddington

    Was the previous Tory candidate for Mayor, now (FFS) he is Baron Bailey of Paddington.

    Good gig that eh Susan (who stole the purse I dropped?) Hall? Fail in the election but get made Lady Hall of Hounslow or wherever and have a paid job (attendance allowance) doing sfa for life.


    For every Baron Bailey there is a Lord Kinnock. 
    That is an absolutely laughable comparison
    Why?
    I can't believe I have to spell this out - but Neil Kinnock was leader of the opposition for eleven years. He was an immensely respected politician, on both sides of the house. Attempting to draw some sort of parallel between him and Bailey is absolutely ludicrous. 
    The original.poster made reference to a person that got rewarded for losing an election by being made a Baron.

    Correct if I am wrong here but I am certain Kinnock lost an election, and also got rewarded, no? (I'm sure he lost more than 1 election too)

    So how comes my comparison is ludicrous?

    Pretty certain he wanted to get rid on unelected peers too, albeit I am happy to be corrected on that.



    I'm going to assume that you're quite young? And that you're not aware of the manner and criteria under which life peerages are (or used to be, at least) assigned? It's not based on whether or not you lost an election 🤦🏽‍♂️
    Incorrect

    Ps
    The OP made the original comment about losing an election, is he wrong too?
  • She's against ULEZ, but only in outer London as it effects the poorest who never drive as far as the South Circular and are unable to use public transport. 🫡
  • edited April 29
    Gillis said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    Shaun Bailey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Bailey,_Baron_Bailey_of_Paddington

    Was the previous Tory candidate for Mayor, now (FFS) he is Baron Bailey of Paddington.

    Good gig that eh Susan (who stole the purse I dropped?) Hall? Fail in the election but get made Lady Hall of Hounslow or wherever and have a paid job (attendance allowance) doing sfa for life.


    For every Baron Bailey there is a Lord Kinnock. 
    That is an absolutely laughable comparison
    Why?
    I can't believe I have to spell this out - but Neil Kinnock was leader of the opposition for eleven years. He was an immensely respected politician, on both sides of the house. Attempting to draw some sort of parallel between him and Bailey is absolutely ludicrous. 
    The original.poster made reference to a person that got rewarded for losing an election by being made a Baron.

    Correct if I am wrong here but I am certain Kinnock lost an election, and also got rewarded, no? (I'm sure he lost more than 1 election too)

    So how comes my comparison is ludicrous?

    Pretty certain he wanted to get rid on unelected peers too, albeit I am happy to be corrected on that.




    The comparison is ludicrous because Kinnock was a political heavyweight with years of experience in the legislature when he was made a peer. It's easy to see how he could make a contribution to shaping future legislation in the Lords. I'm not sure the same could be said of Shaun Bailey.
    He wanted to abolish it, then took a place when offered. Says it all for me. That's when I lost respect for him. 

    Agree with your.point about Bailey
  • cafc999 said:
    Gillis said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    Shaun Bailey

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Bailey,_Baron_Bailey_of_Paddington

    Was the previous Tory candidate for Mayor, now (FFS) he is Baron Bailey of Paddington.

    Good gig that eh Susan (who stole the purse I dropped?) Hall? Fail in the election but get made Lady Hall of Hounslow or wherever and have a paid job (attendance allowance) doing sfa for life.


    For every Baron Bailey there is a Lord Kinnock. 
    That is an absolutely laughable comparison
    Why?
    I can't believe I have to spell this out - but Neil Kinnock was leader of the opposition for eleven years. He was an immensely respected politician, on both sides of the house. Attempting to draw some sort of parallel between him and Bailey is absolutely ludicrous. 
    The original.poster made reference to a person that got rewarded for losing an election by being made a Baron.

    Correct if I am wrong here but I am certain Kinnock lost an election, and also got rewarded, no? (I'm sure he lost more than 1 election too)

    So how comes my comparison is ludicrous?

    Pretty certain he wanted to get rid on unelected peers too, albeit I am happy to be corrected on that.




    The comparison is ludicrous because Kinnock was a political heavyweight with years of experience in the legislature when he was made a peer. It's easy to see how he could make a contribution to shaping future legislation in the Lords. I'm not sure the same could be said of Shaun Bailey.
    He wanted to abolish it, then took a place when offered. Says it all for me. That's when I lost respect for him. 

    Agree with your.point about Bailey
    A reasonable interview with him on the Newsagents podcast last week coincidentally. Easy listen. 
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  • Kinnock was/is a national figure, Bailey is barely known in London.
  • I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
  • seth plum said:
    I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
    Hasn’t he now conceded it is / was under investigation but has now simply said not going to introduce (yet)?

    my ‘criticism’ (as you ask) is not the overall benefit of improved air quality but the way the extended zone was introduced I.e. minimal notice at a time of financial hardship for those most likely to be affected. 

    I’m also still perplexed why we have no data and analysis of compliance since the latest extension. 
  • The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

  • As for peerages, it seems to me that if Shaun Bailey gets one, Rosamund Kissi Debra should get two.
    As a grieving mother she has already made a richer contribution to society than ‘a party during lockdown’ Shaun Bailey.
  • edited April 30
    seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
  • seth plum said:
    I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
    Why would someone spend £150m into something without wanting to implement it?
  • seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
    Well as I said above, if there is evidence about road pricing could you provide a link? Including the spending on stuff for road pricing directed by Sadiq Khan. He has made a statement, if you think it was forced out of him that is an opinion certainly, whether it is fact is open to debate. 
    The warnings about the introduction of both ULEZ schemes and whether there was enough of it is down to opinion too. I personally believe it was dragged on too long before introduction, increasing the suffering of those affected by dirty air.

    In terms of compliance and fines I don’t have any link to data on that. Nor do I have a link to how much cleaner the air has become.

    Khan has been excellent during all this, because the car lobby is more vociferous and powerful than the concerned parent lobby, but he has walked a tricky path between the two opposing forces very well.

    There is no evidence that previously Shaun Bailey, and currently Susan Hall give a damn about the pollution or the death of little Ella, or the suffering of others.

  • cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
    Why would someone spend £150m into something without wanting to implement it?
    I am interested, can you provide a link to the £150m spent so far on road pricing? With some kind of break down on specific cameras, locations, monitoring stations, staffing, and revenue collection systems?
    Was it an amount spent all in one go, or the accumulated spend on keeping something under review over the years?
  • seth plum said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
    Why would someone spend £150m into something without wanting to implement it?
    I am interested, can you provide a link to the £150m spent so far on road pricing? With some kind of break down on specific cameras, locations, monitoring stations, staffing, and revenue collection systems?
    Was it an amount spent all in one go, or the accumulated spend on keeping something under review over the years?
    It's been widely reported across the media that he has done this, so stop being daft.

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  • seth plum said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
    Well as I said above, if there is evidence about road pricing could you provide a link? Including the spending on stuff for road pricing directed by Sadiq Khan. He has made a statement, if you think it was forced out of him that is an opinion certainly, whether it is fact is open to debate. 
    The warnings about the introduction of both ULEZ schemes and whether there was enough of it is down to opinion too. I personally believe it was dragged on too long before introduction, increasing the suffering of those affected by dirty air.

    In terms of compliance and fines I don’t have any link to data on that. Nor do I have a link to how much cleaner the air has become.

    Khan has been excellent during all this, because the car lobby is more vociferous and powerful than the concerned parent lobby, but he has walked a tricky path between the two opposing forces very well.

    There is no evidence that previously Shaun Bailey, and currently Susan Hall give a damn about the pollution or the death of little Ella, or the suffering of others.

    The evidence is that he has  spent on feasibility studies / recruited staff for this purpose. Posters on here with knowledge of TFL have also confirmed this. khan has not said that no money has been spent on  it. 

    There was not warning that ULEZ would be extended to its latest boundary. 


  • seth plum said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
    Well as I said above, if there is evidence about road pricing could you provide a link? Including the spending on stuff for road pricing directed by Sadiq Khan. He has made a statement, if you think it was forced out of him that is an opinion certainly, whether it is fact is open to debate. 
    The warnings about the introduction of both ULEZ schemes and whether there was enough of it is down to opinion too. I personally believe it was dragged on too long before introduction, increasing the suffering of those affected by dirty air.

    In terms of compliance and fines I don’t have any link to data on that. Nor do I have a link to how much cleaner the air has become.

    Khan has been excellent during all this, because the car lobby is more vociferous and powerful than the concerned parent lobby, but he has walked a tricky path between the two opposing forces very well.

    There is no evidence that previously Shaun Bailey, and currently Susan Hall give a damn about the pollution or the death of little Ella, or the suffering of others.

    The evidence is that he has  spent on feasibility studies / recruited staff for this purpose. Posters on here with knowledge of TFL have also confirmed this. khan has not said that no money has been spent on  it. 

    There was not warning that ULEZ would be extended to its latest boundary. 


    And yet some people still refuse to see it
  • cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    I am looking forward to the hard evidence that Sadiq Khan is going to introduce road pricing. 
    Nobody criticising him on this thread seem concerned about children suffering from the pollution caused on our roads by vehicles.
    Why would someone spend £150m into something without wanting to implement it?
    I am interested, can you provide a link to the £150m spent so far on road pricing? With some kind of break down on specific cameras, locations, monitoring stations, staffing, and revenue collection systems?
    Was it an amount spent all in one go, or the accumulated spend on keeping something under review over the years?
    It's been widely reported across the media that he has done this, so stop being daft.

    If it is widely reported surely it would be easy for you to find and post relevant links.
    As I said above my ‘daftness’ is because I live close to Rosamund Kissi Debrah and I have taken an interest in this car events, including complaining to my local councillors about the traffic restrictions (this led to a removal of cameras by the two railway bridges near the Hither Green rail yard on Manor Lane).
    In order to prove that Sadiq Khan introducing road pricing is not a rumour or an urban myth by his political opponents I am simply asking for hard evidence.
    Naturally because it is me asking I will get my usual collection of passive/agressive lol’s, including the personals that have others calling me ‘daft’ and worse.
    What is so wrong in asking for hard evidence, could it be that it doesn’t exist?
  • seth plum said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
    Well as I said above, if there is evidence about road pricing could you provide a link? Including the spending on stuff for road pricing directed by Sadiq Khan. He has made a statement, if you think it was forced out of him that is an opinion certainly, whether it is fact is open to debate. 
    The warnings about the introduction of both ULEZ schemes and whether there was enough of it is down to opinion too. I personally believe it was dragged on too long before introduction, increasing the suffering of those affected by dirty air.

    In terms of compliance and fines I don’t have any link to data on that. Nor do I have a link to how much cleaner the air has become.

    Khan has been excellent during all this, because the car lobby is more vociferous and powerful than the concerned parent lobby, but he has walked a tricky path between the two opposing forces very well.

    There is no evidence that previously Shaun Bailey, and currently Susan Hall give a damn about the pollution or the death of little Ella, or the suffering of others.

    The evidence is that he has  spent on feasibility studies / recruited staff for this purpose. Posters on here with knowledge of TFL have also confirmed this. khan has not said that no money has been spent on  it. 

    There was not warning that ULEZ would be extended to its latest boundary. 


    It is probable that the GLA and TFL has spent money on keeping all aspects of road travel ‘under review’ (their words).
    I think some people extrapolate from that that Sadiq Khan is on the brink of bringing in road pricing.
    I simply ask for credible links to prove that, not hearsay.
  • edited April 30
    Have I offended you by calling you daft @seth plum
  • seth plum said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction might have had ways to improve it, but @cantersaddick has explained quite often the scheme was introduced with a lot of warning, and a scrappage scheme. What other things might have been done?
    If we want an environment with cleaner air one way or another is it will cost us all financially and a change in lifestyles.
    As for Sadiq Khan and road pricing he has said the GLA always keep road pricing ‘under review’, is there anything wrong with that? He has also said that whilst he is Mayor he would not introduce road pricing.
    It is up to each person to decide if Khan can be believed on that.
    That always brings me back to Ella’s mother Rosamund Kissi Debrah and her ongoing campaign to keep the health issue up there with the car issue.

    https://www.ellaroberta.org/about-us/our-people/

    It is wrong to say the latest expansion was introduced with a lot of warning. It was not. Even more so amidst a cost of living crisis. 

    This should not be glossed over. Further the scrappage scheme had to be improved from the initial offering. 

    So the point on pay per mile remains. it is the case he has spent significant sums to date on it and now been forced to state it wont yet be introduced. The evidence you queried is effectively there as a lesser study would surely have sufficed if the plans were not more advanced. 

    Any observations on why we still await any detailed analysis on compliance / fines issued?
    Well as I said above, if there is evidence about road pricing could you provide a link? Including the spending on stuff for road pricing directed by Sadiq Khan. He has made a statement, if you think it was forced out of him that is an opinion certainly, whether it is fact is open to debate. 
    The warnings about the introduction of both ULEZ schemes and whether there was enough of it is down to opinion too. I personally believe it was dragged on too long before introduction, increasing the suffering of those affected by dirty air.

    In terms of compliance and fines I don’t have any link to data on that. Nor do I have a link to how much cleaner the air has become.

    Khan has been excellent during all this, because the car lobby is more vociferous and powerful than the concerned parent lobby, but he has walked a tricky path between the two opposing forces very well.

    There is no evidence that previously Shaun Bailey, and currently Susan Hall give a damn about the pollution or the death of little Ella, or the suffering of others.

    My question on compliance  was about the reason for the lack of data. I did not suggest you may be able to locate it. 

    Put another way do you have any view on why none is published?

    My concern, to reiterate, is not that we won’t see some marginal gain in air quality but that ULEZ will become a cost drain too soon. I am a lone view on this. 

    My interest in the compliance data is to see who pays (not just gets fined) and changes behaviour versus the ad hoc ‘day trippers’ who pay once or twice only and therefore don’t reduce emissions within London. 
  • Just look up Project Detroit (it's an official project)

    No doubt some people won't have time to search for it, but will have time to post long winded posts denying it
  • cafc999 said:
    Have I offended you by calling you daft @seth plum
    I am used to it and worse, it's called playing the man not the ball.
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