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Paul Merson: Football, Gambling & Me

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  • edited October 2021
    JaShea99 said:
    bobmunro said:
    JaShea99 said:
    It always amazes me how people who work in the gambling industry pipe up to defend it whenever threads like this come up. I’d have thought they would just keep quiet, knowing how things really are. But to actually have the front to attempt to justify how they’ve made and continue to make a living as being (seemingly) morally fine is mind-blowing to me. As for the outright lie or perhaps delusion, in expecting people to believe that ‘no gambling company likes problem gamblers’, it almost defies belief.
    You are talking from a position far removed from reality, or talking out of your arse - I’m not quite sure which but I have an idea.

    I like to think I have a reasonable reputation on this forum and can assure you I speak the truth - and that’s from a position of actually fucking knowing.
    I’m not though am I? For one thing morals are a matter of opinion, but then I suppose your ‘removed from reality/out of your arse’ comment is as well. Not sure what your reputation has to do with anything, I wasn’t even directing my post at you. But no matter how many years you’ve profited from gambling or how much you ‘fucking know’, there’s no way you can convince me that gambling companies don’t like problem gamblers. There’s far too much evidence (and you may call it anecdotal) on this thread alone.
    Who was the post directed at then if it wasn't at Bob?

    I suggest that it was aimed at "people who work in the gambling industry".  That includes Bob, of course ... but the post wasn't aimed at Bob specifically.

    I'll leave it to JaShea99 to correct if my suggestion is wrong.
  • edited October 2021
    cafctom said:
    bobmunro said:
    cafctom said:
    Addickted said:
    So bookies are free to limit the bets of consistent winners, but seem incapable of doing the same to consistent losers.

    Yet they 'look after them'? Ahh, the sweet smell of hypocrisy.
    You win a £300 acca with Bet365 they’ll put your account to £3 maximum bet. They do not like losing.
    I was listening to The Price of Football podcast earlier this week, and they had a professional gambler interviewed on there. His sole income is from researching, analysing betting markets and odds to make his money through winning bets.

    He said that he can no longer have betting accounts in his own name now, as they’ve all caught onto the fact that he wins a lot more than he loses.

    The whole thing just seems like a con (from the bookie side).

    On a side note - he was also a Rochdale fan so worth tuning in to to hear their discussion around the takeover/Matt Southall.
    So this is a guy who makes his sole income from gambling? 

    Due to the fact that a bet needs to be a commercial arrangement between two parties who are both willing to enter into the contract, there is nothing in place that dictates that the gambling business must accept your bet. This is exactly the same as any other business operating in the UK. As with commercial businesses, offers may be withdrawn whenever the company feels like it. And so too, gambling businesses may withdraw offers or refuse bets as a way of reducing the risk to their own business.

    No business would enter into a contract knowing they would be selling the product or service at a loss.

    Getting other people to place the bets?

    This is unlawful, and also against all bookmakers terms and conditions. Not least because the operator has a legal obligation to know their customer - what would stop an adult placing bets on behalf on minors?
    All valid points. 

    My argument would be that ethically it seems wrong to entice people with the expectation that they could ‘win big’ with all the regular tactics they deploy - to then lock the customer in emotionally and dictate the ongoing arrangements so that it was only balanced in one direction.

    I understand why they do it - I just think it is morally wrong.
    Completely agree with this - I understand why they do it, but the limiting/essentially stopping of people who might win money off them by the bookies sticks in the craw given that effectively the whole point of gambling is you may win, the bookie may win etc.
    I got limited / closed by 90% of online bookies a few years ago because I was taking too many offers and not giving anything back to them.

    At the time it was upsetting. Why did they close my account but seemingly welcome problem gamblers with open arms? (I had no evidence for this, I just felt slighted)

    Being a bit removed from it all now, I can see how difficult it would be to differentiate someone who is losing but can afford it vs someone is who losing and can’t afford it. I suppose bet sizes come into it alongside a multitude of other factors put together by algorithms far cleverer than me.

    The other thing I realised about bookies is that they *HAVE* to offer bets for almost anything you can think of or they risk falling behind the competition. The punter can pick and choose what they play but bookies have to price up everything and have to put themselves at risk accordingly. If they didn’t ban winners, they’d be out of business within the year because they’d be milked dry by the world of “professional gamblers”. They have to try to protect their business.

    Now the really clever people will get their bets on in other ways and that’s the cat and mouse game between bookies and sharp punters. If they legally had to keep it opened up to winners, I would be one of many logging back on to Bet365 tomorrow and taking them to the cleaners for all they’re worth.
  • Merson is now living in rented accommodation.  That is worrying to suggest how much he is left with, and possibly how much he still owes.
    He is honest with himself and does not disguise things, I hope he can resolve his problems.
  • There are so many betting companies, so that if one of them identifies a problem gambler and shuts down their account, there are plenty of others who will open a new account. I presume that with data protection, the betting companies can't pass on information to others. 
  • Gambling has many sides,There is the hard core pro,the addicted,but there is also the normal man in the street who loves a bet and the company in his local betting shop.My local is always well populated,I know some of the guys who go there regularly.They spend maybe 2-3 hours a time,bet in £1-2 and have a great afternoon with their mates.They might lose £ 20.00 or come out on top.Either way,it is their entertainment.After all,I go to football, with the wife,Thats £50.00 gone nothing coming back.Go to a show,play a round of golf,all dead money.I bet most of these guys are totally in control and have no interest in on line betting,but the line is there,just one weakness when one of the barrage of TV ads attracts you,and you are hooked.
  • Slightly off the topic of gambling advertising, but still relevant. I was coming home late a while back and was walking down wood green high road. I'd crossed the street from my usual route as I was searching for some fast food but everything was shut. What wasn't shut were a string of about 4 of those 'cashino' type shops, with bouncers outside the door! I'd honestly never noticed them! I imagine these are very dangerous places if you like to gamble. Open 24hrs and anyone can just walk in off the street. Have no idea how these places are regulated?
  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
  • Gambling and drinking are fun but that slogan "when the fun stops, stop" is making such a mockery of what an addiction is. Like saying to an alcoholic "just stop drinking when you've had enough" 

    Thankfully I'm not addicted to either but the patronisation in making a big thing about telling people who clearly can't stop to just stop is mental 

    For what its worth I feel very sorry for Paul Merson he has always been very open and honest about his problems and seems a decent person who is hugely regretful and aware of the damage his addiction has caused. 


  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?
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  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?

    I'd rather not say but that person is a Charlton legend and has openly admitted that he wished he'd "looked after his money more" 
  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?

    I'd rather not say but that person is a Charlton legend and has openly admitted that he wished he'd "looked after his money more" 
    Sounds like Clive Mendonca
  • These people have to take responsibility for themselves

    'too many offers, so I keep gambling'
    'too many takeaways, so I keep eating'
    'beer is cheap at supermarket so I keep drinking at home'


  • Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?

    I'd rather not say but that person is a Charlton legend and has openly admitted that he wished he'd "looked after his money more" 
    Must be Richard Rufus then !!!
    Thought Rufus was 'looking after' others peoples money more?
  • Carter said:
    Gambling and drinking are fun but that slogan "when the fun stops, stop" is making such a mockery of what an addiction is. Like saying to an alcoholic "just stop drinking when you've had enough" 

    Thankfully I'm not addicted to either but the patronisation in making a big thing about telling people who clearly can't stop to just stop is mental 

    For what its worth I feel very sorry for Paul Merson he has always been very open and honest about his problems and seems a decent person who is hugely regretful and aware of the damage his addiction has caused. 


    Is there ‘fun’ as such?
    I have bought two lucky dips for Friday Euromillions but it wasn’t fun, it is simply a question of get a ticket and I will likely lose, but you never know might win.
    There is no fun attached.
    There is a story above about people spending an afternoon in a betting shop for £2, but being with friends, I can see how the company might be fun, but such company can also be found elsewhere.
    I imagine that if the fun is about some kind of kudos for calling it right, then where does the kudos come from? The backslapping of friends?
    The gambling industry probably has some kind of award event, what would be fun there would be if they had a gambler of the year award and how such a person might be selected.
    I would love the consumer magazine Which? to have an article about the best and worst gambling companies ranked in order, the fascination would be how that’s assessed.

  • iaitch said:
    Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?

    I'd rather not say but that person is a Charlton legend and has openly admitted that he wished he'd "looked after his money more" 
    Must be Richard Rufus then !!!
    Thought Rufus was 'looking after' others peoples money more?
    He was ‘investing’ it at the bookies near Sparrows Lane - he was on a mission from God 😉
  • MrOneLung said:
    These people have to take responsibility for themselves

    'too many offers, so I keep gambling'
    'too many takeaways, so I keep eating'
    'beer is cheap at supermarket so I keep drinking at home'


    I agree but some people find that harder to do that others for a variety of reasons.

    Merson is someone who seemed unable to have a small drink or a little bet.  He "needed" to drink and take drugs to blot out whatever it was that was troubling him and he "needed" to get the buzz from betting more than he could afford. It was that risk that created the buzz.  He is an extreme and high profile example but there are others with smaller but still significant issues who can't or find it very hard to just stop.

    So, while I agree that betting and drinking are rightly legal and mostly harmless, the people who sell those products also have a responsibility to try and minimise the chance of them being abused or their over use causing harm.  Just as we expect car manufacturers to make their cars safe and stadium owners to make football grounds safe.

    At the same time if a manufacturer can make a very safe car but if someone drives it way over the speed limit while drunk and not wearing a seat belt is that the manufacturer's fault or the driver?    I'd say the driver but I'd also like to see prevention in place to stop that person driving like that in the first place such as driving tests, driver education campaigns, fines and imprisonment for bad drivers, speed cameras etc.

    Whether the betting firms, or some betting firms as there seem to be dozens on football team shirts alone I've never heard of, do enough or do the right thing is open for debate and we've heard both sides on here and mostly in a rational way.

    As someone who is risk adverse when betting and thinks twice about a £10 bet once a year on the National I don't get it but then I'm not the target audience.   

    I don't like the seemingly all encompassing advertising especially those that shows it being all lads together having some "banter" (sic) as they bet.  It makes it seem as if you have to have a bet to enjoy football or be one of the lads which I feel is wrong.

    I do some work in the video games industry (cos I'm young and hip like) and they are having similar issues.  They are being tasked by government officials with dealing with addictive gamers and the issues of young people spending over long hours in front of a screen when they should be down the pub with their mates watching football and having a bet with their mates.  I've actually suggested to some of the industry bodies that they should speak to the betting industry.
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  • Carter said:
    Gambling and drinking are fun but that slogan "when the fun stops, stop" is making such a mockery of what an addiction is. Like saying to an alcoholic "just stop drinking when you've had enough" 

    Thankfully I'm not addicted to either but the patronisation in making a big thing about telling people who clearly can't stop to just stop is mental 

    For what its worth I feel very sorry for Paul Merson he has always been very open and honest about his problems and seems a decent person who is hugely regretful and aware of the damage his addiction has caused. 


    Sorry do you mean the slogan:
    When the FUN stops, stop


    Like you say it's missing the point entirely about addiction. 
  • Just caught up with this and it did change my mind to the extent where I now think betting adverts should be banned. What persuaded me was the bit showing Merson's brain activity and his reaction to betting related images.  
  • There are likely to be exceptions, but all this issue seems very ‘male’.
    Maybe the problem is nothing to do with the gambling firms and organisations, but to do with testosterone.
  • Just caught up with this and it did change my mind to the extent where I now think betting adverts should be banned. What persuaded me was the bit showing Merson's brain activity and his reaction to betting related images.  
    I think that's how adverts are meant to work.

    Whether the person reacting to the ad, has a problem or addiction, is another matter. It's aimed at the majority who don't have the addiction. Exactly the same for alcohol advertising, they're not trying to entice alcoholics into going out and buying the product, it's aimed at the rest of us.


  • I think adverts are designed to operate if people are only half paying attention. Subliminal if you like.
    If you give full forensic attention to the adverts the impact is reduced, and you see what a con it is.
  • iaitch said:
    Watched this last night, the bit where it said Merson, Gillespie, Hartson and the other player (who was he?) had combined estimated losses of over 12m was crazy!

    Also equally as crazy is the guy who made well over 2,000 different cash deposits into his betting account in one year! How does a bookie not flag that and ban him for his own good? Incredible really.
    That's just three footballers who have been prepared to admit to their losses. I suspect we all know of others who couldn't wait for the end of training before to get to the bookies in the days when online betting wasn't around. One ex Charlton player I know of could have any bet he liked in the one nearest the training ground - no referrals whatsoever - simply because, like Merson, even if he won he simply wouldn't walk away 'til it was all gone.
    Which player was that ?

    I'd rather not say but that person is a Charlton legend and has openly admitted that he wished he'd "looked after his money more" 
    Must be Richard Rufus then !!!
    Thought Rufus was 'looking after' others peoples money more?
    He was ‘investing’ it at the bookies near Sparrows Lane - he was on a mission from God 😉
    'He was having a bang on that' to quote Mr Winstone?
  • YTS1978 said:
    Slightly off the topic of gambling advertising, but still relevant. I was coming home late a while back and was walking down wood green high road. I'd crossed the street from my usual route as I was searching for some fast food but everything was shut. What wasn't shut were a string of about 4 of those 'cashino' type shops, with bouncers outside the door! I'd honestly never noticed them! I imagine these are very dangerous places if you like to gamble. Open 24hrs and anyone can just walk in off the street. Have no idea how these places are regulated?

    Horrible places. They're there to fleece the saddest/maddest people in our society. Absolute bottom feeders. 
  • edited October 2021
    seth plum said:
    There are likely to be exceptions, but all this issue seems very ‘male’.
    Maybe the problem is nothing to do with the gambling firms and organisations, but to do with testosterone.
    Gambling seems to be an addiction that affects males more, but addiction in general is a unisex problem. There are certainly large numbers of women who are addicted to drugs and alcohol just as men are - and I imagine (to use an example admittedly plucked from thin air) you can find women with an addiction to, say, plastic surgery or similar that is less a typically "male" fixation - though again I'm sure there do exist men with this exact addiction too.

    I think labelling it as a "male" problem is somewhat missing the wood for the trees. 
  • edited October 2021
    has Merson's old mucker Tony Adams had a word ?, has Merson taken advice from the Sporting Chance charity ?
     Merson presumably still makes a good living from Sky Sports. Has he considered having all his earnings handed over to his wife or someone like a trustee to manage his outgoings ?, if not, why not ?
     After decades of problems and the frittering away of millions, why is Merson still allowed to be in charge of his finances, that is if he still is.  I haven't yet seen the programme so don't know if any of my questions were answered
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