I have said Washington is an average striker in League 1 but if he played in a two up front in a Good side that creates chances then these are his states:
Peterborough 14/15 season 13 goals/40 Peterborough 15/16 season 10 goals/25 Charlton 20/21 11 goals in 36 games. Conor spent more time outside the box running out wide for Cafc at times.
So Croydon you are wrong unless you want to be pedantic on percentages.
Posh probably played 3 up front in the area and created 10 chances a game in League 1 so Connor may of missed a hatful.
Just pointing out Washington can score about 1 in 3 in the Third tier and everyone can make their own mind if that is bog standard or top striker ratio.
Conor has a poor record in the championship.
To save face, I will choose to be pedantic
Happy to hold my hands up, genuinely didn't think he scored that many. Happy to have been proved wrong.
A proper Charlton player. He's like a slightly better Simon Church. At third tier level, he's definitely on my teamsheet and I can't understand why he didn't get more time under Adkins.
Style wise yes, but quality wise he's significantly better than old Churchinho ever was. Sadly that's not an especially high bar to clear but Washington is certainly a better striker of a ball and I personally feel he's got superior instincts - Church chased after the ball, Washington tries to get ahead of it - IMO.
Remember that Church played consistently at a higher level though.
Washington is better in league 1 than Church ever was in the championship....
Okay, that's a fair point actually - though I suppose all the while we're still in league one it's something of a moot point sadly.
Conor Washington was in a rich vein of form last season, was scoring a few goals and had been MOM in two straight games and typical Cafc he got injured after 2 minutes in Adkins first game so Nigel didn't get to see the best of Conor. His work rate is tremendous, But as Garrymanilow said above Conor is an average League 1 goal scorer who along with Stockley are great professionals but both will miss more chances than they score. That's why as a team we need to create a lot of chances in the 3rd tier. Under Adkins this season we were a poor team yet I always believed we had decent players at this level. No Aneke which I alway believed would mean we wouldn't improve on 7th ? I didn't and still don't want to be correct on this prediction. ( Not bragging but did say 7th at the beginning of last Season!)
The positive with Conor Washington is in a good League 1 team he is capable of 1 goal in 3 games. If Stockley and Lee can have a similar ratio then we will rise up the table especially with a defensive shape under JJ.
Only two games under JJ but it's different to night and day.
Stockley has 17 goals in 32 starts and 6 sub appearances
If 3 players can hit 1 in 3 games and the "wingers" can chip in with goals, Leko at this low level could score 10 over a season depending on his position in the team. Gilbey 7 or 8 possibly if we play and create chances at a higher rate. DJ on song could score a few and cross like he did on Saturday then we will be fine despite not having a Championship striker in our team. Kirk, I reserve judgement until he can become a part of the team. CBT could be an asset off the bench for cameo roles against a tiring defence.
Stockley is as good as the service he receives. In League 1 even Josh Magennis could hit double figures in that Hull team. Believe he scored 10 for Cafc in League 1 ?
Jayden Stockley playing in a two up front with some quality crosses and Lee, Gilbey, Conor supporting with Leko and Purrington helping as well would help Stocks ll be a 2.5 goal a game striker in the 3rd tier. He will miss some sitters but 20 goals is possible.
Messi and Ronaldo watching on with admiration at that strike rate.
If Washington had the end product to match his work rate he'd be a top half Championship player at least and wouldn't be with us. His movement is great, his touch is decent, and he runs and runs and runs.
When he's about to cross the ball or take a shot he doesn't have me on the edge of my seat - my instinct is he won't score or get an assist, but he does it often enough that he's not a write-off.
He doesn't score much in the way of direct assists and goal scoring stats but his movement and work rate makes space for other and forces mistakes from defenders and does lead to more chances for us. Take Stockley's goal vs Accrington as an example. Connor chased a lost cause and made it into a chance for us. He then totally messed up the cross, hitting it straight at a defender. However, the ball broke our way and Stockley scored. Washington gets nothing in the assists column for that and the goalscorer wasn't the one he was trying to pass to, but the goal wouldn't have happen without his contribution. These are the things you cannot measure that can make a team more than the sum of its parts, and why stats, while definitely a useful tool, will only take you so far in assessing a player.
Can't believe some of the criticism Washington gets on here. He's no Ronaldo clearly, but every time he's out there he busts a gut for the team. Got 10 goals last season and would probably be good for 10-15 in a decent side. He is the least of our problems. A proper Charlton player in my book. Top bloke.
As Washington says, Jackson has sparked them to play at a much higher intensity than under Adkins.
I'm still mulling over Sandgaard's assertion on Talksport the day after the sacking: "The players aren't fit". Many Lifers were saying the same; certainly we used to fade in the second half.
So, where has this new-found stamina come from, evinced against Sunderland and Donny? Is it the psychological 'new manager bounce' - or are the players dropped by Jackson (Kirk, Morgan, Blackett-Taylor) the ones unfit?
I was one that was banging on how unfit they were under Adkins. You can't make players fitter in 48 hours, it's impossible.
The number of games where we looked dead on our feet before half time was shocking.
I agree, but I think the change in formation has a lot to do with the improvement. Dobson looks a great player now he does not have to chase all over the place and can stick to just doing his job. Three in midfield is really hard work - especially if the wide men are not working back to help. Our strength and depth is in midfield so it makes so much sense to play five of them!
Importantly though Wash has 13 in 50 (4A) for Charlton, Church had 5 in 55 (4A). Right now Wash is better for us than Church was back then.
But in a different division. Kevin Lisbie struggled to score regularly for us in the PL, but if we had been in L1 at the time, he would have scored a hatful
Saturday was a typical Washington performance in that he worked hard for the team, but I'm struggling to remember him doing that much, other than the penalty
Saturday was a typical Washington performance in that he worked hard for the team, but I'm struggling to remember him doing that much, other than the penalty
As Exiled said above, he's not the kind of player whose value is in passes or shots. You won't often be able to pinpoint any specific action but the team is better with him in it.
As Washington says, Jackson has sparked them to play at a much higher intensity than under Adkins.
I'm still mulling over Sandgaard's assertion on Talksport the day after the sacking: "The players aren't fit". Many Lifers were saying the same; certainly we used to fade in the second half.
So, where has this new-found stamina come from, evinced against Sunderland and Donny? Is it the psychological 'new manager bounce' - or are the players dropped by Jackson (Kirk, Morgan, Blackett-Taylor) the ones unfit?
I was one that was banging on how unfit they were under Adkins. You can't make players fitter in 48 hours, it's impossible.
The number of games where we looked dead on our feet before half time was shocking.
I agree, but I think the change in formation has a lot to do with the improvement. Dobson looks a great player now he does not have to chase all over the place and can stick to just doing his job. Three in midfield is really hard work - especially if the wide men are not working back to help. Our strength and depth is in midfield so it makes so much sense to play five of them!
It's not just formations though is it. You are now classing Leko/DJ as midfielders because of the way its written down on paper. It's still the same players that didn't track back in a 4231 but did in a 3142. By your definition we must have played 6 of them previously?
The fact that they didn't do the basics, and now are, doesn't suddenly make them midfielders?
Can't believe some of the criticism Washington gets on here. He's no Ronaldo clearly, but every time he's out there he busts a gut for the team. Got 10 goals last season and would probably be good for 10-15 in a decent side. He is the least of our problems. A proper Charlton player in my book. Top bloke.
Importantly though Wash has 13 in 50 (4A) for Charlton, Church had 5 in 55 (4A). Right now Wash is better for us than Church was back then.
But in a different division. Kevin Lisbie struggled to score regularly for us in the PL, but if we had been in L1 at the time, he would have scored a hatful
So you're making my point for me here.
Simon Church was not the right player at the right level at the right time.
Washington is the right kind of player at the right level at what should be his prime.
Saturday was a typical Washington performance in that he worked hard for the team, but I'm struggling to remember him doing that much, other than the penalty
As Exiled said above, he's not the kind of player whose value is in passes or shots. You won't often be able to pinpoint any specific action but the team is better with him in it.
But he did have his moment... put it on a plate for Stockley, who fluffed it to Purrington, who fluffed it to the keeper, who fluffed it to Lee, who fluffed it. But it came from great work by Washington!!
As Washington says, Jackson has sparked them to play at a much higher intensity than under Adkins.
I'm still mulling over Sandgaard's assertion on Talksport the day after the sacking: "The players aren't fit". Many Lifers were saying the same; certainly we used to fade in the second half.
So, where has this new-found stamina come from, evinced against Sunderland and Donny? Is it the psychological 'new manager bounce' - or are the players dropped by Jackson (Kirk, Morgan, Blackett-Taylor) the ones unfit?
I was one that was banging on how unfit they were under Adkins. You can't make players fitter in 48 hours, it's impossible.
The number of games where we looked dead on our feet before half time was shocking.
I agree, but I think the change in formation has a lot to do with the improvement. Dobson looks a great player now he does not have to chase all over the place and can stick to just doing his job. Three in midfield is really hard work - especially if the wide men are not working back to help. Our strength and depth is in midfield so it makes so much sense to play five of them!
It's not just formations though is it. You are now classing Leko/DJ as midfielders because of the way its written down on paper. It's still the same players that didn't track back in a 4231 but did in a 3142. By your definition we must have played 6 of them previously?
The fact that they didn't do the basics, and now are, doesn't suddenly make them midfielders?
4-3-3 and the three at the front didn’t track back and were very much strikers. You mention Leko and DJ, they are being described as wing backs now. Does not make them defenders.
JJ is playing 3 at the back and 2 up front, which to me means five are midfielders.
If you are talking about strikers then 1 in 3 - 15 goals in 46 league games is OK, not breathtaking but reasonably good.
However, it’s no coincidence that in our four most recent promotions our main striker did better than that in terms of league goals….
Mendonca 26 goals 47 games
Hunt 24 goals 42 games
Wright-Phillips 22 goals 42 games
Taylor 21 goals 41 games
Those extra goals that take you from 15 in 45 games to 22/23 in 45 games make a huge difference in terms of points and that’s why the best strikers are so costly.
If you are talking about strikers then 1 in 3 - 15 goals in 46 league games is OK, not breathtaking but reasonably good.
However, it’s no coincidence that in our four most recent promotions our main striker did better than that in terms of league goals….
Mendonca 26 goals 47 games
Hunt 24 goals 42 games
Wright-Phillips 22 goals 42 games
Taylor 21 goals 41 games
Those extra goals that take you from 15 in 45 games to 22/23 in 45 games make a huge difference in terms of points and that’s why the best strikers are so costly.
Also shows that you can find the right Striker without spending money if you do your research and get lucky though - What with two of those joining us on a Free Transfer
As Washington says, Jackson has sparked them to play at a much higher intensity than under Adkins.
I'm still mulling over Sandgaard's assertion on Talksport the day after the sacking: "The players aren't fit". Many Lifers were saying the same; certainly we used to fade in the second half.
So, where has this new-found stamina come from, evinced against Sunderland and Donny? Is it the psychological 'new manager bounce' - or are the players dropped by Jackson (Kirk, Morgan, Blackett-Taylor) the ones unfit?
I was one that was banging on how unfit they were under Adkins. You can't make players fitter in 48 hours, it's impossible.
The number of games where we looked dead on our feet before half time was shocking.
I agree, but I think the change in formation has a lot to do with the improvement. Dobson looks a great player now he does not have to chase all over the place and can stick to just doing his job. Three in midfield is really hard work - especially if the wide men are not working back to help. Our strength and depth is in midfield so it makes so much sense to play five of them!
It's not just formations though is it. You are now classing Leko/DJ as midfielders because of the way its written down on paper. It's still the same players that didn't track back in a 4231 but did in a 3142. By your definition we must have played 6 of them previously?
The fact that they didn't do the basics, and now are, doesn't suddenly make them midfielders?
4-3-3 and the three at the front didn’t track back and were very much strikers. You mention Leko and DJ, they are being described as wing backs now. Does not make them defenders.
JJ is playing 3 at the back and 2 up front, which to me means five are midfielders.
But quite often it was a 4231 with 4 defenders and 1 striker, to me that's 5 midfielders......
It doesn't matter what you call them, if they work hard, track back and attack you can call them goal keepers for all I care. Its what they do that's important not what you call them.
When it works 4231 looks like a 424 in attack and a 451 in defence, for what ever reason ours looked like 424 in defence and 451 in attack.
If you are talking about strikers then 1 in 3 - 15 goals in 46 league games is OK, not breathtaking but reasonably good.
However, it’s no coincidence that in our four most recent promotions our main striker did better than that in terms of league goals….
Mendonca 26 goals 47 games
Hunt 24 goals 42 games
Wright-Phillips 22 goals 42 games
Taylor 21 goals 41 games
Those extra goals that take you from 15 in 45 games to 22/23 in 45 games make a huge difference in terms of points and that’s why the best strikers are so costly.
Also shows that you can find the right Striker without spending money if you do your research and get lucky though - What with two of those joining us on a Free Transfer
Its bloody difficult and rare though
I'm not sure it's that difficult, BUT you have to be prepared to pay enough wages, which was difficult this summer with Ipswich and Wigan splashing the cash. Or sell yourself to the parent clubs to get the right loan players
Joe Piggott can't be that happy at Ipswich, as he's very much second fiddle to Bonne. Louie Barry, Kayden Jackson and James Norwood have played even less
If you are talking about strikers then 1 in 3 - 15 goals in 46 league games is OK, not breathtaking but reasonably good.
However, it’s no coincidence that in our four most recent promotions our main striker did better than that in terms of league goals….
Mendonca 26 goals 47 games
Hunt 24 goals 42 games
Wright-Phillips 22 goals 42 games
Taylor 21 goals 41 games
Those extra goals that take you from 15 in 45 games to 22/23 in 45 games make a huge difference in terms of points and that’s why the best strikers are so costly.
Also shows that you can find the right Striker without spending money if you do your research and get lucky though - What with two of those joining us on a Free Transfer
Its bloody difficult and rare though
Hunt and Taylor were free transfers but only because they were out of contract so both players would have had received decent signing on fees, there would definitely have been interest from other clubs.
diplomatic by washington but a load of guff - it was the system and tactics that was killing the players -' the other stuff'
Serious question was the system and tactics significantly different to the same ones we used in the last ten games last season?
Were the systems and tactics used by Bowyer in the first 10 games (7 wins, 2 defeats and draw) that different in the next 26 games?
I would love to know what exactly changed/went wrong in both cases because for two so different people to end up with exactly the same outcome, via completely different routes, is, well, unique. On second thoughts maybe it isn't because Jose and OGS have both achieved the same thing.
Conor Washington was in a rich vein of form last season, was scoring a few goals and had been MOM in two straight games and typical Cafc he got injured after 2 minutes in Adkins first game so Nigel didn't get to see the best of Conor. His work rate is tremendous, But as Garrymanilow said above Conor is an average League 1 goal scorer who along with Stockley are great professionals but both will miss more chances than they score. That's why as a team we need to create a lot of chances in the 3rd tier. Under Adkins this season we were a poor team yet I always believed we had decent players at this level. No Aneke which I alway believed would mean we wouldn't improve on 7th ? I didn't and still don't want to be correct on this prediction. ( Not bragging but did say 7th at the beginning of last Season!)
The positive with Conor Washington is in a good League 1 team he is capable of 1 goal in 3 games. If Stockley and Lee can have a similar ratio then we will rise up the table especially with a defensive shape under JJ.
Only two games under JJ but it's different to night and day.
Stockley has 17 goals in 32 starts and 6 sub appearances
If 3 players can hit 1 in 3 games and the "wingers" can chip in with goals, Leko at this low level could score 10 over a season depending on his position in the team. Gilbey 7 or 8 possibly if we play and create chances at a higher rate. DJ on song could score a few and cross like he did on Saturday then we will be fine despite not having a Championship striker in our team. Kirk, I reserve judgement until he can become a part of the team. CBT could be an asset off the bench for cameo roles against a tiring defence.
Stockley is as good as the service he receives. In League 1 even Josh Magennis could hit double figures in that Hull team. Believe he scored 10 for Cafc in League 1 ?
Jayden Stockley playing in a two up front with some quality crosses and Lee, Gilbey, Conor supporting with Leko and Purrington helping as well would help Stocks ll be a 2.5 goal a game striker in the 3rd tier. He will miss some sitters but 20 goals is possible.
Messi and Ronaldo watching on with admiration at that strike rate.
Cheers Chris; edit Sam before anyone notices the faux pas.
He's a handful always running the channels.....a proper Charlton type of player....don't understand what people expect of our players being in L1
Promotion is what I want from our players in this shithouse known as League One.
Washington is a steady Eddie , if he keeps Davison out the side then it’s all good for me Washington is more a top half league one player and Davison to me is a middling bottom half of league one player .
Conor Washington was in a rich vein of form last season, was scoring a few goals and had been MOM in two straight games and typical Cafc he got injured after 2 minutes in Adkins first game so Nigel didn't get to see the best of Conor. His work rate is tremendous, But as Garrymanilow said above Conor is an average League 1 goal scorer who along with Stockley are great professionals but both will miss more chances than they score. That's why as a team we need to create a lot of chances in the 3rd tier. Under Adkins this season we were a poor team yet I always believed we had decent players at this level. No Aneke which I alway believed would mean we wouldn't improve on 7th ? I didn't and still don't want to be correct on this prediction. ( Not bragging but did say 7th at the beginning of last Season!)
The positive with Conor Washington is in a good League 1 team he is capable of 1 goal in 3 games. If Stockley and Lee can have a similar ratio then we will rise up the table especially with a defensive shape under JJ.
Only two games under JJ but it's different to night and day.
Stockley has 17 goals in 32 starts and 6 sub appearances
If 3 players can hit 1 in 3 games and the "wingers" can chip in with goals, Leko at this low level could score 10 over a season depending on his position in the team. Gilbey 7 or 8 possibly if we play and create chances at a higher rate. DJ on song could score a few and cross like he did on Saturday then we will be fine despite not having a Championship striker in our team. Kirk, I reserve judgement until he can become a part of the team. CBT could be an asset off the bench for cameo roles against a tiring defence.
Stockley is as good as the service he receives. In League 1 even Josh Magennis could hit double figures in that Hull team. Believe he scored 10 for Cafc in League 1 ?
Jayden Stockley playing in a two up front with some quality crosses and Lee, Gilbey, Conor supporting with Leko and Purrington helping as well would help Stockley be a goal every 2.4 games in the 3rd tier. He will miss some sitters but 20 goals is possible.
Gilbey will not get 7 or 8 in a season not a chance. Most he has ever got is 5. We need a goalscorer fir sure instead of all these wingers.
Conor Washington was in a rich vein of form last season, was scoring a few goals and had been MOM in two straight games and typical Cafc he got injured after 2 minutes in Adkins first game so Nigel didn't get to see the best of Conor. His work rate is tremendous, But as Garrymanilow said above Conor is an average League 1 goal scorer who along with Stockley are great professionals but both will miss more chances than they score. That's why as a team we need to create a lot of chances in the 3rd tier. Under Adkins this season we were a poor team yet I always believed we had decent players at this level. No Aneke which I alway believed would mean we wouldn't improve on 7th ? I didn't and still don't want to be correct on this prediction. ( Not bragging but did say 7th at the beginning of last Season!)
The positive with Conor Washington is in a good League 1 team he is capable of 1 goal in 3 games. If Stockley and Lee can have a similar ratio then we will rise up the table especially with a defensive shape under JJ.
Only two games under JJ but it's different to night and day.
Stockley has 17 goals in 32 starts and 6 sub appearances
If 3 players can hit 1 in 3 games and the "wingers" can chip in with goals, Leko at this low level could score 10 over a season depending on his position in the team. Gilbey 7 or 8 possibly if we play and create chances at a higher rate. DJ on song could score a few and cross like he did on Saturday then we will be fine despite not having a Championship striker in our team. Kirk, I reserve judgement until he can become a part of the team. CBT could be an asset off the bench for cameo roles against a tiring defence.
Stockley is as good as the service he receives. In League 1 even Josh Magennis could hit double figures in that Hull team. Believe he scored 10 for Cafc in League 1 ?
Jayden Stockley playing in a two up front with some quality crosses and Lee, Gilbey, Conor supporting with Leko and Purrington helping as well would help Stockley be a goal every 2.4 games in the 3rd tier. He will miss some sitters but 20 goals is possible.
Gilbey will not get 7 or 8 in a season not a chance. Most he has ever got is 5. We need a goalscorer fir sure instead of all these wingers.
A tad optimistic for Gilbey with Lee in the team to say 7 or 8 ! Playing 3-5-2 you definitely don't just want wingers because it is Taylor made for wing backs. Kirk may struggle to fit into this team if he can't adapt. Can he score enough goals in Lee's role behind the strikers. Are both Leko and DJ going to be turned into wing backs with more responsibility to defend at times. Can Purrington prove what I thought for years that he really is decent when he gets forward.
Hull proved last year that goals can be shared around.
How we can find a striker with a good record of goals in January who is fit and can hit the ground scoring will take either a lot of money or we take a gamble again to try a League 2 or National League striker. After the Ronnie Schwartz saga it would need a player used to this division in many ways. Emails to Steve Gallen or GED Roddy if you know this missing piece of the jigsaw ?
Comments
Happy to hold my hands up, genuinely didn't think he scored that many. Happy to have been proved wrong.
Washington has 71 in 327 games.
Importantly though Wash has 13 in 50 (4A) for Charlton, Church had 5 in 55 (4A). Right now Wash is better for us than Church was back then.
Our strength and depth is in midfield so it makes so much sense to play five of them!
The fact that they didn't do the basics, and now are, doesn't suddenly make them midfielders?
Simon Church was not the right player at the right level at the right time.
Washington is the right kind of player at the right level at what should be his prime.
However, it’s no coincidence that in our four most recent promotions our main striker did better than that in terms of league goals….
Mendonca 26 goals 47 games
Hunt 24 goals 42 games
Wright-Phillips 22 goals 42 games
Taylor 21 goals 41 games
Those extra goals that take you from 15 in 45 games to 22/23 in 45 games make a huge difference in terms of points and that’s why the best strikers are so costly.
Its bloody difficult and rare though
It doesn't matter what you call them, if they work hard, track back and attack you can call them goal keepers for all I care. Its what they do that's important not what you call them.
When it works 4231 looks like a 424 in attack and a 451 in defence, for what ever reason ours looked like 424 in defence and 451 in attack.
Joe Piggott can't be that happy at Ipswich, as he's very much second fiddle to Bonne. Louie Barry, Kayden Jackson and James Norwood have played even less
Were the systems and tactics used by Bowyer in the first 10 games (7 wins, 2 defeats and draw) that different in the next 26 games?
I would love to know what exactly changed/went wrong in both cases because for two so different people to end up with exactly the same outcome, via completely different routes, is, well, unique. On second thoughts maybe it isn't because Jose and OGS have both achieved the same thing.
Cheers Chris; edit Sam before anyone notices the faux pas.
Washington is a steady Eddie , if he keeps Davison out the side then it’s all good for me
Washington is more a top half league one player and Davison to me is a middling bottom half of league one player .
A tad optimistic for Gilbey with Lee in the team to say 7 or 8 !
Playing 3-5-2 you definitely don't just want wingers because it is Taylor made for wing backs.
Kirk may struggle to fit into this team if he can't adapt. Can he score enough goals in Lee's role behind the strikers.
Are both Leko and DJ going to be turned into wing backs with more responsibility to defend at times.
Can Purrington prove what I thought for years that he really is decent when he gets forward.
Hull proved last year that goals can be shared around.
How we can find a striker with a good record of goals in January who is fit and can hit the ground scoring will take either a lot of money or we take a gamble again to try a League 2 or National League striker.
After the Ronnie Schwartz saga it would need a player used to this division in many ways.
Emails to Steve Gallen or GED Roddy if you know this missing piece of the jigsaw ?