I haven't really caught up with this thread ... for which, I apologise ... but isn't the main issue here the fact that 'red ball' cricket (or 'cricket' as some of us call it) is only interesting for a dwindling minority?
County Championship attendances have never been good, but have dropped year on year. Check out the crowd at most games and it's the older generation with tea and fold-up chairs. Test cricket attendances are not great across the World ... even in India.
Those of us who mourn the old days where the five-day Test was the pinnacle of the game are dinosaurs now. All the kids want is Buttler hitting sixes to the sound of 'Eye of the Tiger' and corporate hospitality.
There is no way back. There will be no re-structuring. Not enough of us want to see our batsmen leaving the ball repeatedly, getting to 20-ish by lunch, then cashing in later in the day as the bowlers and the ball become jaded.
240 runs in a day? Why, Buttler can get that in two hours ... well, he would if he hadn't got out ten times.
Test cricket is to the one-day game as snooker is to pool. Similar skills are required, but the objectives and strategies are wildly different.
A good snooker player will excel at pool whereas a good pool player will probably not make it to the top-level in snooker.
Sadly, the World of Instant Gratification spells the end for painstaking diligence and excellence.
Test cricket, we loved you ... but your time is done.
T20 is definitely the global product and that isn't a bad thing. It's been great to see insanely popular sports Youtuber Jomboy getting into cricket this winter - he's almost taken it under his wing as winter baseball (his main focus).
So, T20 is here to stay - good.
But to say Test cricket is dying? One of the greatest Test series of all time took place this year. Probably top 5 series ever. Some of the most gripping, high-level sport we've ever been privileged to see.
And who played in those games? That's right. Players who play as much T20 as anybody.
The problem isn't T20. The problem isn't Chris Silverwood. The problem is England. The problem is English coaching at the junior levels, as AA has been saying. That is entirely where the problem is.
There are opportunities next summer for at least four new batsmen to come through and take their places in the team. It will be very interesting to see if anyone is able to do so. I'm not especially confident.
T20 is definitely the global product and that isn't a bad thing. It's been great to see insanely popular sports Youtuber Jomboy getting into cricket this winter - he's almost taken it under his wing as winter baseball (his main focus).
So, T20 is here to stay - good.
But to say Test cricket is dying? One of the greatest Test series of all time took place this year. Probably top 5 series ever. Some of the most gripping, high-level sport we've ever been privileged to see.
And who played in those games? That's right. Players who play as much T20 as anybody.
The problem isn't T20. The problem isn't Chris Silverwood. The problem is England. The problem is English coaching at the junior levels, as AA has been saying. That is entirely where the problem is.
There are opportunities next summer for at least four new batsmen to come through and take their places in the team. It will be very interesting to see if anyone is able to do so. I'm not especially confident.
The problem also has a lot to do with rescheduling county cricket to accommodate the Hundred.
How many state schools play cricket? None of my kids had the chance to play cricket as they never played in their schools.
At my school in Kent about 10-15 years ago, none of the year groups before ours played cricket - no idea how many years it had gone untouched but at least 10 judging by the state of the equipment they had tucked away in the corner of the shed.
We had to campaign to able to set up the equipment to practice after school, plus organize a few fixtures against other schools in the area. We got absolutely pumped by everyone we played.
Good competitive test between South Africa and India. Our openers could do worse than watching Elgar open for the saffers. They just put up a graphic of SA batter averages, they are eerily similar to England’s.
There was an lbw review earlier that was almost a carbon copy of Malans 2nd innings dismissal, on this occasion the umpire gave it not out so that decision stood as umpires call. It made me think, should they just do away with umpires call? If any part of the ball is going to hit the stumps…it’s out.
Won't argue with points 1 and 2 but I'm really not sure there is any statistical significance to point 3.
64% in the first half vs 36% in the second half in such a small sample size should probably just thrown out. It doesn't mean anything.
I dont think point 1 is as statistically important as some may think either. In a country where the vast majority of the population are white it's no surprise the number is high, particularly when you consider the significance of the second point.
I'm not sure what the stats are for the number of people in the country going to private school are, but it's only going to be a small fraction when compared to the 77% stat above.
Thats the real problem for cricket. But it's always been that way and, like tennis, there isnt really a will to do anything about it because the powers that be actually like the cosy status quo.
IMO I don’t think that Kids want to play cricket and very few schools do anything to promote it.
If you have a child you want to play cricket you take him to a club and that’s when you start putting your hand in your pocket. It’s not cheap. Club membership , match fees , Bat , Pads helmet , whites etc etc all come to a tidy sum. One on One coaching starts at about £30 an hour …,
If they want to watch the game you need a sky subscription.
As AA says the chances of making it as a state schoolboy is very low, and it’s not all down to the standard of the coaching.
I haven't really caught up with this thread ... for which, I apologise ... but isn't the main issue here the fact that 'red ball' cricket (or 'cricket' as some of us call it) is only interesting for a dwindling minority?
County Championship attendances have never been good, but have dropped year on year. Check out the crowd at most games and it's the older generation with tea and fold-up chairs. Test cricket attendances are not great across the World ... even in India.
Those of us who mourn the old days where the five-day Test was the pinnacle of the game are dinosaurs now. All the kids want is Buttler hitting sixes to the sound of 'Eye of the Tiger' and corporate hospitality.
There is no way back. There will be no re-structuring. Not enough of us want to see our batsmen leaving the ball repeatedly, getting to 20-ish by lunch, then cashing in later in the day as the bowlers and the ball become jaded.
240 runs in a day? Why, Buttler can get that in two hours ... well, he would if he hadn't got out ten times.
Test cricket is to the one-day game as snooker is to pool. Similar skills are required, but the objectives and strategies are wildly different.
A good snooker player will excel at pool whereas a good pool player will probably not make it to the top-level in snooker.
Sadly, the World of Instant Gratification spells the end for painstaking diligence and excellence.
Test cricket, we loved you ... but your time is done.
Demand for test cricket is high. People consume the longer format differently. How many people have the cricinfo or bbc live text open at work and follow in the background. How many people listen to the radio/online commentary in their breaks and how popular have the county live streams been in the last couple of years? It's not all about attendances for the longer format, it still has a significant following.
Attendances haven't been helped by less and less championship cricket scheduled for weekends and Bank Holidays so it's much harder for people to get to.
I wonder what the likes of Alan Knott, Bob Taylor and Jack Russell would say to the ECB if they were told that they wouldn't keep in the County Championship for three whole seasons but then be expected to keep in Test matches for England. And that the only time they would keep in red ball, between February and December, would be for three Test matches in the middle of August.
Knowing those three, I suspect that there might be a few choice words said but, there again, they were all masters of their craft and whilst Bob Taylor wasn't an all rounder, the other two could and did make meaningful contributions with the bat.
I haven't really caught up with this thread ... for which, I apologise ... but isn't the main issue here the fact that 'red ball' cricket (or 'cricket' as some of us call it) is only interesting for a dwindling minority?
County Championship attendances have never been good, but have dropped year on year. Check out the crowd at most games and it's the older generation with tea and fold-up chairs. Test cricket attendances are not great across the World ... even in India.
Those of us who mourn the old days where the five-day Test was the pinnacle of the game are dinosaurs now. All the kids want is Buttler hitting sixes to the sound of 'Eye of the Tiger' and corporate hospitality.
There is no way back. There will be no re-structuring. Not enough of us want to see our batsmen leaving the ball repeatedly, getting to 20-ish by lunch, then cashing in later in the day as the bowlers and the ball become jaded.
240 runs in a day? Why, Buttler can get that in two hours ... well, he would if he hadn't got out ten times.
Test cricket is to the one-day game as snooker is to pool. Similar skills are required, but the objectives and strategies are wildly different.
A good snooker player will excel at pool whereas a good pool player will probably not make it to the top-level in snooker.
Sadly, the World of Instant Gratification spells the end for painstaking diligence and excellence.
Test cricket, we loved you ... but your time is done.
Demand for test cricket is high. People consume the longer format differently. How many people have the cricinfo or bbc live text open at work and follow in the background. How many people listen to the radio/online commentary in their breaks and how popular have the county live streams been in the last couple of years? It's not all about attendances for the longer format, it still has a significant following.
Attendances haven't been helped by less and less championship cricket scheduled for weekends and Bank Holidays so it's much harder for people to get to.
A county championship game in May is unattractive, but the same would apply if you played a T20 or 100 game then.
I've been to county championship games at Tunbridge Wells or Canterbury in July with a decent attendance.
Libby will be ignored like Daryl Mitchell before him cos he plays for Worcs. Haines has a very good shot - him and Yates could be opening for England pretty soon, provided they show better than Burns. Slater plays for Notts so he'll probably leapfrog them cos Notts. Hain will always be a fuckin Aussie and a fifty merchant but they'll probably pick him soon. Bohannon is next in line imo, he actually looks pretty decent
Just one other point to make to those who clamour for nothing but the shortened form of the game. If you are an out of form batsman, how do you play yourself back into form if all you play is T20? You don't have time to properly assess the pitch, especially if you open in the Power Play, so the consequences are a string of low scores. If your whole technique is based on "see ball/hit ball" it becomes very difficult to actually know what you have to do to unravel any issues you might have. Your stock will go down much quicker as a result and mean that careers will be very short too.
Also, Crawley is the closest thing we have to Trescothick since forever, and I reckon he'll have a similar career arc, except that Tresco didn't get picked young and suffer the attendant setback. When he learns how to leave the ball properly he'll be a monster. He already is in short stuff and needs to be in our one-day/T20 team like yesterday
In fact for the last 2 Tests I'd recall Burns, open with him and Bairstow (who also keeps, fuck it) and bat Crawley at 6, Woakes at 7 as batting allrounder
I worry that Crawley may end up with a Rob Key type test career. One massive hundred, but little else.
Key played 15 Tests, averaging 31 Crawley - 16 Tests, av 27
Everyone else is much of a muchness, not scoring enough runs. Burns - 31 Tests, av 31 Hameed - 9 Tests, av 27 Pope - 22 Tests, av 30 Malan - 20 Tests, av 29
Denly - 15 Tests, av 30 Lawrence - 8 Tests, av 27 Vince - 13 tests, av 25
You are correct that the stats don't tell the full story.
For example, if you play on the road that is The Oval you are far more likely to succeed. Pope scored 274 at The Oval in a match where Glamorgan's 672-6 was more than matched by Surrey's 722-4. He also hit 245 out of 672-8 against Leics and 131 out of 560-7 against Hants. Take those three innings at The Oval out of the equation and Pope's average reduces from 78.27 to 26.38
Equally, at times, the Sussex bowling attack has been extremely limited and inexperienced as evidenced when Middlesex hit 676-5 with Robson (253), Stoneman (175), White (110*) and Andersson (88*) helped themselves to what was being served up. Take that 253 off Robson's 1047 and his average drops from 40.27 to 31.76
The mystery for me is Pope. Bradmanesque when playing at The Oval, yet has really disappointed in an England shirt
It's not a technical issue either, but more a mental one?
As I inferred above, The Oval is a road and Pope isn't unique in plundering runs there. I do believe though that he is a class player but, as I said a while ago, he needs move up the order. Not only is he hiding at 6 but he's not learning anything. Coming in at that position, he will, following the fall of two more wickets, be batting with the tail. Once we get into that position and Wood, Robinson, Leach, Anderson etc etc are at the other end, the job no longer becomes about occupying the crease but about how many runs he can score before they are all out.
Comments
County Championship attendances have never been good, but have dropped year on year. Check out the crowd at most games and it's the older generation with tea and fold-up chairs. Test cricket attendances are not great across the World ... even in India.
Those of us who mourn the old days where the five-day Test was the pinnacle of the game are dinosaurs now. All the kids want is Buttler hitting sixes to the sound of 'Eye of the Tiger' and corporate hospitality.
There is no way back. There will be no re-structuring. Not enough of us want to see our batsmen leaving the ball repeatedly, getting to 20-ish by lunch, then cashing in later in the day as the bowlers and the ball become jaded.
240 runs in a day? Why, Buttler can get that in two hours ... well, he would if he hadn't got out ten times.
Test cricket is to the one-day game as snooker is to pool. Similar skills are required, but the objectives and strategies are wildly different.
A good snooker player will excel at pool whereas a good pool player will probably not make it to the top-level in snooker.
Sadly, the World of Instant Gratification spells the end for painstaking diligence and excellence.
Test cricket, we loved you ... but your time is done.
Unfortunately he is probably correct in what he says.
That doesn't suggest a lack of demand. Even the non London grounds in this country get decent crowds for Test matches
And if nobody cared about Test cricket, why has there been so much anger about the Ashes debacle, whether in the media or social media?
So, T20 is here to stay - good.
But to say Test cricket is dying? One of the greatest Test series of all time took place this year. Probably top 5 series ever. Some of the most gripping, high-level sport we've ever been privileged to see.
And who played in those games? That's right. Players who play as much T20 as anybody.
The problem isn't T20. The problem isn't Chris Silverwood. The problem is England. The problem is English coaching at the junior levels, as AA has been saying. That is entirely where the problem is.
There are opportunities next summer for at least four new batsmen to come through and take their places in the team. It will be very interesting to see if anyone is able to do so. I'm not especially confident.
Even had their own film I believe
64% in the first half vs 36% in the second half in such a small sample size should probably just thrown out. It doesn't mean anything.
We had to campaign to able to set up the equipment to practice after school, plus organize a few fixtures against other schools in the area. We got absolutely pumped by everyone we played.
I'm not sure what the stats are for the number of people in the country going to private school are, but it's only going to be a small fraction when compared to the 77% stat above.
Thats the real problem for cricket. But it's always been that way and, like tennis, there isnt really a will to do anything about it because the powers that be actually like the cosy status quo.
If you have a child you want to play cricket you take him to a club and that’s when you start putting your hand in your pocket. It’s not cheap. Club membership , match fees , Bat , Pads helmet , whites etc etc all come to a tidy sum. One on One coaching starts at about £30 an hour …,
Attendances haven't been helped by less and less championship cricket scheduled for weekends and Bank Holidays so it's much harder for people to get to.
Knowing those three, I suspect that there might be a few choice words said but, there again, they were all masters of their craft and whilst Bob Taylor wasn't an all rounder, the other two could and did make meaningful contributions with the bat.
I've been to county championship games at Tunbridge Wells or Canterbury in July with a decent attendance.
Most runs:
Haines (Sussex) 1176
Libby (Worcs) 1075
Robson (Middx) 1047
Critchley (Derby) 1000
Highest average (min. 10 innings):
Pope (Surrey) 78.27
Libby (Worcs) 56.57
Lawrence (Essex) 53.33
Bohannon (Lancs) 53.31
Most balls faced:
Haines (Sussex) 2231
Libby (Worcs) 2209
Hain (Warks) 2004
Robson (Middx) 1985
Slater (Notts) 1892
Most hundreds:
Brown (Sussex) 4
Libby (Worcs) 4
Yates (Warks) 4
Most fifties:
Haines (Sussex) 9
Critchley (Derby) 9
Burns (Surrey) 8
Clarke (Notts) 8
Hill (Leics) 8
Carlson (Glam) 8
Libby (Worcs) 8
Highest partnerships:
Robson/Stoneman (Middx) 376
Pope/Amla (Surrey) 362
Carlson/Cooke (Glam) 307
Northeast/Holland (Hants) 257
Eckersly/Bedingham (Durham) 254
Azad/Hill (Leics) 248
Libby/Barnards (Worcs) 244
Two England "rejects". Indeed you could make a decent top 6 out of all the discarded Top 3 batsmen from recent years
It's not a technical issue either, but more a mental one?
Key played 15 Tests, averaging 31
Crawley - 16 Tests, av 27
Everyone else is much of a muchness, not scoring enough runs.
Burns - 31 Tests, av 31
Hameed - 9 Tests, av 27
Pope - 22 Tests, av 30
Malan - 20 Tests, av 29
Denly - 15 Tests, av 30
Lawrence - 8 Tests, av 27
Vince - 13 tests, av 25
For example, if you play on the road that is The Oval you are far more likely to succeed. Pope scored 274 at The Oval in a match where Glamorgan's 672-6 was more than matched by Surrey's 722-4. He also hit 245 out of 672-8 against Leics and 131 out of 560-7 against Hants. Take those three innings at The Oval out of the equation and Pope's average reduces from 78.27 to 26.38
Equally, at times, the Sussex bowling attack has been extremely limited and inexperienced as evidenced when Middlesex hit 676-5 with Robson (253), Stoneman (175), White (110*) and Andersson (88*) helped themselves to what was being served up. Take that 253 off Robson's 1047 and his average drops from 40.27 to 31.76