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Charlton's rearranged fixture options over the next two months

Airman BrownAirman Brown
edited January 2022 in General Charlton
I've had a go at this as I'm always trying to schedule meetings around fixtures or potential fixtures. For that reason I was quite pleased Crewe was put on January 12th, because I have a commitment I can't avoid that night, and while I'd have gone to Crewe I'm more interested in going to AFC Wimbledon or the home game with Gillingham, which could have been then.

My thoughts on it are at www.votvonline.com
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Comments

  • JustFloydRoadJustFloydRoad
    Same
  • golfaddickgolfaddick
    I know the EFL like to get rearranged games in as early as possible but currently the whole of March is free, midweek wise. 
  • suzisausagesuzisausage
    golfaddick said:
    I know the EFL like to get rearranged games in as early as possible but currently the whole of March is free, midweek wise. 
    Will clash with cricket! 
  • CallumcafcCallumcafc
    Slow news day at VOTV towers? :-)
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    golfaddick said:
    I know the EFL like to get rearranged games in as early as possible but currently the whole of March is free, midweek wise. 
    I expect the clubs would prefer March. It just depends on the EFL view. In any event, you can’t put four games (potentially) in two February slots.

    I hadn’t realised the Trophy final is on February 27th, which means if Charlton progress it’s hard to fit those extra games in at all.
  • JohnnyH2JohnnyH2
    Airman Brown said:
    golfaddick said:
    I know the EFL like to get rearranged games in as early as possible but currently the whole of March is free, midweek wise. 
    I expect the clubs would prefer March. It just depends on the EFL view. In any event, you can’t put four games (potentially) in two February slots.

    I hadn’t realised the Trophy final is on February 27th, which means if Charlton progress it’s hard to fit those extra games in at all.
    The Trophy final is on the 3rd April. Its the League Cup that is on the 27th Feb
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    JohnnyH2 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    golfaddick said:
    I know the EFL like to get rearranged games in as early as possible but currently the whole of March is free, midweek wise. 
    I expect the clubs would prefer March. It just depends on the EFL view. In any event, you can’t put four games (potentially) in two February slots.

    I hadn’t realised the Trophy final is on February 27th, which means if Charlton progress it’s hard to fit those extra games in at all.
    The Trophy final is on the 3rd April. Its the League Cup that is on the 27th Feb
    Yes, thanks. I picked that up from another site but realised on checking I had misread it.
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    Callumcafc said:
    Slow news day at VOTV towers? :-)
    More that it’s something nobody else would bother to cover.

    Also trying to work out when the next home game after January 22nd will be as the plan was to publish VOTV173 for February 5th. It was always a vulnerability in the schedule but we may not play at The Valley for four weeks.
  • Mendonca In AsdasMendonca In Asdas
    edited January 2022
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
  • letthegoodtimesrollletthegoodtimesroll
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
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  • Mendonca In AsdasMendonca In Asdas
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Wimbledon are playing Boreham Wood away in the FA Cup 3rd round.
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
  • DA9DA9
    Airman Brown said:
    Callumcafc said:
    Slow news day at VOTV towers? :-)
    More that it’s something nobody else would bother to cover.

    Also trying to work out when the next home game after January 22nd will be as the plan was to publish VOTV173 for February 5th. It was always a vulnerability in the schedule but we may not play at The Valley for four weeks.
    That works for me 😀
  • letthegoodtimesrollletthegoodtimesroll
    Happy days

  • letthegoodtimesrollletthegoodtimesroll
    Don’t you just know it will be against Portsmouth…maybe we could agree to play it on the Saturday 


  • Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
  • Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
  • PopIconPopIcon
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
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  • Siv_in_NorfolkSiv_in_Norfolk
    So Chelsea vs Arsenal U21s is at the Emirates according to that EFL article above....

    So... we could potentially play there or Stamford Bridge in the next round?

    Still... not sure how enjoyable it would be to watch in a basically empty stadium 
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The net gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    addick1956 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    The train cancellations would have affected the gate. There were 1200-1500 Addicks at Orient!
    Behave yourself. Most people travel by car. In any event, the no shows with tickets will have been in the attendance anyway.
  • Chris_from_SidcupChris_from_Sidcup
    addick1956 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    The train cancellations would have affected the gate. There were 1200-1500 Addicks at Orient!
    Still don't quite get why we took so many there (to a ground most have been to) when we don't get more than that for the home games in this cup
  • raytreacy69raytreacy69
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The net gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    Shit competition but an opportunity for game time for a lot of players
    Whats not to like about a Charlton day out at Wembley if we get there
  • valleynick66valleynick66
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The net gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    I bracket it the same as the Full Members Cup final. 

    Yes a poor cup competition but come the final (not  necessarily assuming we will get that far) it would be a day out. 

    I also assume based on your tweet (I think) the club is making a bit of prize money from this if nothing else. 

    It’s also giving some minutes to the squad members which can’t be a bad thing. 

    Overall having got this far it’s something we should continue to try and win. 
  • Airman BrownAirman Brown
    edited January 2022
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The net gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    I bracket it the same as the Full Members Cup final. 

    Yes a poor cup competition but come the final (not  necessarily assuming we will get that far) it would be a day out. 

    I also assume based on your tweet (I think) the club is making a bit of prize money from this if nothing else. 

    It’s also giving some minutes to the squad members which can’t be a bad thing. 

    Overall having got this far it’s something we should continue to try and win. 
    It’s a competition few people want to watch which is being shaped by clubs outside the original scope of it by use of relatively small sums of money. The threat is if the EFL clubs don’t do as they are told the PL will use its clout to force B teams into the league.

    If you compare the gates before and after it was restructured to include U21 teams you can see exactly what the public makes of it. We once had about 4,000 for it in a game live on Sky. 

    The clubs and by extension the fans are being pulled around on strings by the elite. I’m not stopping anyone doing anything, I’m saying it’s not for me and as with the FMC I couldn’t care less whether we win it.

    I would probably go to Harrogate or Sutton, because I haven’t been to either, and I did go to Crawley for the same reason, but otherwise I’m not interested. 
  • se9addickse9addick
    I’d go and watch Charlton play in a kick around at Wembley if it was on, if we get a trophy for winning in something approximating a competitive match then all the better. 
  • valleynick66valleynick66
    Airman Brown said:
    valleynick66 said:
    Airman Brown said:
    PopIcon said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    Airman Brown said:
    letthegoodtimesroll said:
    Mendonca In Asdas said:
    Might be waiting until after the FA cup 3rd round before arranging / announcing it.

    We’re due to play Wimbledon at home on the FA Cup 4th round.
    Don’t they have an easy ride in the 3rd round ? That’s another game we will have to rearrange even if we don’t beat Norwich 
    Yes, that’s in the article. We potentially have five matches to fit in and there is only one slot in January and two in February. Good reason to get knocked out of the trophy in my view, but then I never need a reason for that.
    You'd rather get knocked out of a cup in which we're 2 games from Wembley, just to rearrange some league games which will likely be meaningless?

    There are a number of midweeks in March/April in which to play league games. Looking at it i can't see any midweek games scheduled from end of Feb through to easter.
    I’m opposed to the competition full stop in its current format.
    Fair enough, it is a bit shit can't deny that.

    Would you go to Wembley if we got there though?
    Maybe. I don’t see the significance of it though.
    We're not going up and we're not going down, but we could still make Wembley.
    You just want us to lose on principle?
    We all agree it's a shit tournament, but we're never going to make the League Cup of FA Cup finals. We are a third division club, may as well embrace it.
    Your choice. Mine is to give it as little attention as possible and hope it goes away. If I want to go to Wembley with nothing at stake I can get on a tube any day of the week.

    The net gate receipts last night will be under £5k. Looks like most people have a similar attitude.
    I bracket it the same as the Full Members Cup final. 

    Yes a poor cup competition but come the final (not  necessarily assuming we will get that far) it would be a day out. 

    I also assume based on your tweet (I think) the club is making a bit of prize money from this if nothing else. 

    It’s also giving some minutes to the squad members which can’t be a bad thing. 

    Overall having got this far it’s something we should continue to try and win. 
    It’s a competition few people want to watch which is being shaped by clubs outside the original scope of it by use of relatively small sums of money. The threat is if the EFL clubs don’t do as they are told the PL will use its clout to force B teams into the league.

    If you compare the gates before and after it was restructured to include U21 teams you can see exactly what the public makes of it. We once had about 4,000 for it in a game live on Sky. 

    The clubs and by extension the fans are being pulled around on strings by the elite. I’m not stopping anyone doing anything, I’m saying it’s not for me and as with the FMC I couldn’t care less whether we win it.

    I would probably go to Harrogate or Sutton, because I haven’t been to either, and I did go to Crawley for the same reason, but otherwise I’m not interested. 
    Completely agree with the politics of it all as you describe. 

    My observation was more that as we have chosen to participate to date by playing a decent strength team we may as well see it through. 

    We  as a single club can’t change the composition of the competition this season as that requires I assume the chairman / EFL reps to make the case at the appropriate governance forums. 
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Roland Out Forever!