I have avoided Carr because what little I've seen and heard I never liked. I think he is a totally unfunny manufactured 'comedian' who somehow has enjoyed a long and lucrative career .. this caper has hopefully brought his time to an end .. as was said on the radio this morning, if Jim Davidson had made similar comments, he could well have been 'investigated' and then prosecuted for making hate speech 'jokes' ..
I perceived the joke to be a deadpan dig at society's hatred of the Roma rather than a comic's personal attack on them. Either way Carr must be laughing his backside off at all the free publicity he's received.
Years ago I went to see Frank Skinner do a comeback tour, circa 2007 I'd guess and he was awesome, and one part that got a mixed reception of hilarity and stony faced silence was a bit he did about paedophiles. It genuinely had me holding my sides but a few people threw their toys out of the pram over it, 2 of whom drink in my local and I remember having a conversation that turned into a bit of a row about how I found it funny so in my eyes it was funny but they couldn't get past their view he was in some way normalising paedophilia which kind of tells you what I was up against. My point was, it was funny, to me. If they don't find it funny, it's not funny, to them. Unfortunately they could not hear past the word "paedophile" which probably makes them the type of people to think anyone who does not have children playing with a kid is a nonce.
Jimmy Carr has done jokes about rape, AIDS, Cancer among other subjects that some people might find distasteful. Its just that, jokes. Like this joke, it takes you somewhere then twists you and leads you somewhere else and its the shock value ot that as well as the "oh bloody hell whats he going to do with this" that makes it a joke.
For me, context is absolutely everything, everything. He isn't making light of the holocaust, he is telling a joke, quite probably in a section of his live show where he even warns the audience things are about to get a bit squirly and gives them a contract almost that he won't mind if anyone leaves who doesn't like the darker, edgier, or I suppose nowadays cancellable stuff.
What he does is light years away from what comedians of old would do which was outright bigotry at its worst but again, let's remember. Of its time
Also to have a pair of divs like Nadine Dorries and Sajid Javid tell the country what they can and cannot laugh at is the biggest, most offensive joke of all.
surprised it made its way into his special, more than anything. Comedians jobs are always going to take risks, but they also should know where the line is (which is where the jokes exist). Should he/Netflix cut this bit? Yes, should he be cancelled for it? No.
Makes me laugh that David Baddeil has waded in on this one ! A man who blacked up on TV to ridicule Jason Lee. A nasty piece of work.
Something that he since constantly addresses in his writings these days, and clarifies what he did was racist and unacceptable.
He “waded in” on it because he’s Jewish, and if you hadn’t have noticed the “joke” was concerning the Holocaust. He’s also recently written excellently on anti semitism on the left and racism - which has got a certain type of leftie’s backs up for some reason…!
I did notice, but the "joke" isn't aimed at Jewish people - it's more of a dig at the UKs obsession with "pikeys" being "wrong'uns", surely people can see that? DB has admitted he's been racist in the past, but that doesn't wipe his slate clean and make him some kind of moral crusader! I'm not saying it's right or particularly funny, but the double standars of Baddeil annoy me. Its also well documented that neither Skinner or Baddeil ever apologised to Jason Lee over the whole thing. I can't stand the fella tbh.
He's been saying highly offensive jokes like this for his entire career. It's his thing, and quite frankly it's fine by me - either you find offensive jokes funny or you don't. Surprised it was this one that caused the outrage.
I’m not offended in the slightest either because I’m not a traveler. This is what the “everyone’s a snowflake these days” mob don’t get, it ain’t up to you it’s up to the mob it’s aimed at to decide if it’s offensive.
I get this, and also generally don't find "punching down" in comedy all that amusing.
I think Stewart Lee said something abiut Jimmy Carr, and Frankie Boyle some time back about the sort of comedians who are outrageous all do it is relative safety... People going to their gig knowing what they are going to get and part of the "deal" is that it's a joke between you and the audience. Obviously that doesn't work so much when it's on TV, and being shared around where's there's no control over who sees it. Also at that point you have no control over how people should react to it.
I don't think anything should be off the cards for a comedian as long as it doesn't break the law. People can vote with their feet, vent their feelings over social media etc.
This is a really interesting and though-provoking point and I largely agree. However, it brings up two further points.
First, I think comedians should choose to avoid racist jokes. If you can be funny (and there's no doubt that Jimmy Carr can be very, very funny) you should be funny about anything, but it would, in most cases, be better if you chose not to be funny with racism. Because you have people who aren't funny copying, repeating, amplifying the 'jokes' in a less funny way. The racism becomes normalised. (That is, a funny person saying a racist joke may make it funny; a member of the public saying the same, or similar, racist joke, will just be racist). Does Jimmy Carr want to court, empower and encourage racists? I wouldn't have thought so. But this joke seems to do just that.
The second point is this: what he said doesn't break the law. But the Culture Secretary has said the government is looking at making this type of joke a subject of the new media bill, thus holding Netflix to account. Do we want Nadine Dorries deciding what can and can't be said on television? I don't.
Jimmy Carr is funny. I would just like him not to be racist too.
I largely agree with this, and don't find racist jokes particularly amusing. But I really don't know where a line can reasonably be drawn, by Nadine Dorries or anyone else, as to what should be illegal and what shouldn't over and above "incitement to racial hatred" as per current UK law.
At what point does this impinge on free speech? Who is the arbiter of what constitutes a joke...
The Count Dankula case in Scotland is an interesting one.
A youtuber / comedian convicted of a hate crime for training a pug dog to do a Nazi salute in response to certain phrases. People may find it singularly unamusing (as did I) but the content was such obvious nonsense, and so clearly not an "incitement to racial hatred", that its prosecution set a dangerous precedent IMO.
Ironically of course it is generally the more "clinical" of dictatorships that start with the removal of free speech...
David Baddiel does speak well about anti-semitism and apologised for blacking up to play Jason Lee in a sketch that I found pretty funny at the time, it was at the same time I knew racism was wrong but didn't understand how blacking up was racist which I think I do now (I went to a fancy dress party as Samuel L Jacksons character from Pulp Fiction in the early 2000s so would definitely be cancelled), of course I know its wrong because although it might have been glaringly obvious to some I thought I was already doing my bit by treating people the same and not actively being a bigot.
Anyway back to Jimmy Carr, he told a joke in poor taste which is his thing and probably got it wrong this time but what he does isn't an exact science. He clearly isn't a racist, bigot or anti-semite. He's someone telling jokes and should not be analysed by incompetent, privileged "my father was a bus driver" shills for Boris Johnson
I can quite imagine that many comedians have thought about giving up their profession due to the fun sponges sucking the enjoyment out of life.
The trouble is if all forms of comedy were banned due to offending everyone and everything, they still wouldn't be any happier, in their sad, miserable lives.
You knew before you opened this thread which fun sponges would be straight on it.
Mind you it is the extremely vocal minority who are there straight away, moaning and whinging about so many things, because they haven't the slightest idea about how to enjoy themselves.
I did notice, but the "joke" isn't aimed at Jewish people - it's more of a dig at the UKs obsession with "pikeys" being "wrong'uns", surely people can see that? DB has admitted he's been racist in the past, but that doesn't wipe his slate clean and make him some kind of moral crusader! I'm not saying it's right or particularly funny, but the double standars of Baddeil annoy me. Its also well documented that neither Skinner or Baddeil ever apologised to Jason Lee over the whole thing. I can't stand the fella tbh.
There was no good thing about the holocaust. No one. No matter how you dress it up it is offensive to anyone.
Of course there wasn't! But it's a joke, close to the bone admittedly and intended to shock. Ricky Gervais did a joke about schindlers list/tissues a few years back too which was pretty distasteful, but the audience found it funny. Anyway, I'm off this thread. COYA.
He's been saying highly offensive jokes like this for his entire career. It's his thing, and quite frankly it's fine by me - either you find offensive jokes funny or you don't. Surprised it was this one that caused the outrage.
I’m not offended in the slightest either because I’m not a traveler. This is what the “everyone’s a snowflake these days” mob don’t get, it ain’t up to you it’s up to the mob it’s aimed at to decide if it’s offensive.
I get this, and also generally don't find "punching down" in comedy all that amusing.
I think Stewart Lee said something abiut Jimmy Carr, and Frankie Boyle some time back about the sort of comedians who are outrageous all do it is relative safety... People going to their gig knowing what they are going to get and part of the "deal" is that it's a joke between you and the audience. Obviously that doesn't work so much when it's on TV, and being shared around where's there's no control over who sees it. Also at that point you have no control over how people should react to it.
I don't think anything should be off the cards for a comedian as long as it doesn't break the law. People can vote with their feet, vent their feelings over social media etc.
This is a really interesting and though-provoking point and I largely agree. However, it brings up two further points.
First, I think comedians should choose to avoid racist jokes. If you can be funny (and there's no doubt that Jimmy Carr can be very, very funny) you should be funny about anything, but it would, in most cases, be better if you chose not to be funny with racism. Because you have people who aren't funny copying, repeating, amplifying the 'jokes' in a less funny way. The racism becomes normalised. (That is, a funny person saying a racist joke may make it funny; a member of the public saying the same, or similar, racist joke, will just be racist). Does Jimmy Carr want to court, empower and encourage racists? I wouldn't have thought so. But this joke seems to do just that.
The second point is this: what he said doesn't break the law. But the Culture Secretary has said the government is looking at making this type of joke a subject of the new media bill, thus holding Netflix to account. Do we want Nadine Dorries deciding what can and can't be said on television? I don't.
Jimmy Carr is funny. I would just like him not to be racist too.
I largely agree with this, and don't find racist jokes particularly amusing. But I really don't know where a line can reasonably be drawn, by Nadine Dorries or anyone else, as to what should be illegal and what shouldn't over and above "incitement to racial hatred" as per current UK law.
At what point does this impinge on free speech? Who is the arbiter of what constitutes a joke...
The Count Dankula case in Scotland is an interesting one.
A youtuber / comedian convicted of a hate crime for training a pug dog to do a Nazi salute in response to certain phrases. People may find it singularly unamusing (as did I) but the content was such obvious nonsense, and so clearly not an "incitement to racial hatred", that its prosecution set a dangerous precedent IMO.
Ironically of course it is generally the more "clinical" of dictatorships that start with the removal of free speech...
There is zero threat to free speech here Carr is welcome to do it again without being thrown in prison. What we’re seeing is the consequences of freedom of speech (loss of fans, a pissed off community and your character being questioned).
I did notice, but the "joke" isn't aimed at Jewish people - it's more of a dig at the UKs obsession with "pikeys" being "wrong'uns", surely people can see that? DB has admitted he's been racist in the past, but that doesn't wipe his slate clean and make him some kind of moral crusader! I'm not saying it's right or particularly funny, but the double standars of Baddeil annoy me. Its also well documented that neither Skinner or Baddeil ever apologised to Jason Lee over the whole thing. I can't stand the fella tbh.
Are you seriously attempting to argue the holocaust has nothing to do with jewish people?
What double standards are you talking about? Baddiel has since said it was racist and a terrible thing to do and has apologised. You're the one bringing up Baddiel, why?
Just a typical Jimmy Carr joke. I don't mind him personally & take all his jokes with a pinch of salt, but I'm surprised it's taken him this long to offend so many people
At what point does this impinge on free speech? Who is the arbiter of what constitutes a joke...
The Count Dankula case in Scotland is an interesting one.
A youtuber / comedian convicted of a hate crime for training a pug dog to do a Nazi salute in response to certain phrases. People may find it singularly unamusing (as did I) but the content was such obvious nonsense, and so clearly not an "incitement to racial hatred", that its prosecution set a dangerous precedent IMO.
Ironically of course it is generally the more "clinical" of dictatorships that start with the removal of free speech...
IIRC the reason for the conviction was less the pug doing the Nazi salute, but more the repeated use of the phrase "Gas the Jews" in the video.
I perceived the joke to be a deadpan dig at society's hatred of the Roma rather than a comic's personal attack on them. Either way Carr must be laughing his backside off at all the free publicity he's received.
I generally agree, though it possibly poses another questionable binary sub statement along the lines of "I am not Jim Davidson"
Seen as I’m here though, if you have to resort to lines that malicious then you’re running out of ideas clearly. I love a bit of offensive comedy if it’s quick witted, dry and intelligent but that was just a bit desperate.
And before anyone gives it the “snowflake” treatment, go down to your nearest traveler site and spout it see how you get on..
Aren't you being prejudiced towards that community to insinuate that anyone making such jokes to people of the traveller community would end in violence?
What a brilliant observation Dazzler 21! Spot on..
What unfunny Mr Carr was clearly revealing in this joke (much as Gervais did in The Office) was not so much scapegoat gypsies or mock holocausts but rather reveal the hypocrisy/double standards many people have with regard racism.
We all know he couldn't get away with mocking blacks, Jews or gays (all of whom I believe perished in concentration camps) but we DO know that most people in our sick and messed up society today, while happy to promote "inclusion" "diversity" and "against hate" are quite comfortable "turning-a-blind-eye" when "poor uneducated inarticulate firebrand white folk" take the brunt of every joke or criticism. Carr has found them out perhaps? And made a joke about it.
The answer is not to even pay Unfunny Carr any attention. As it is now his sales will have skyrocketed because of the umbrage taken (and I bet it wasn't a Roma gypsy who took the umbrage). A prime reason why banning free speech only makes things worse. .
Emo Phillips had a joke once:
"There are two types of shopping malls in every town: The one white folks go to and the one white folks used to go to".
Is that a racist joke? Or is it an observation which is totally true in your personal experience?
Observational comedy is funny because it reveals a truth in a clever or surprising way. Not because it overtly tries to offend a minority group.
What unfunny Mr Carr was clearly revealing in this joke (much as Gervais did in The Office) was not so much scapegoat gypsies or mock holocausts but rather reveal the hypocrisy/double standards many people have with regard racism.
We all know he couldn't get away with mocking blacks, Jews or gays (all of whom I believe perished in concentration camps) but we DO know that most people in our sick and messed up society today, while happy to promote "inclusion" "diversity" and "against hate" are quite comfortable "turning-a-blind-eye" when "poor uneducated inarticulate firebrand white folk" take the brunt of every joke or criticism. Carr has found them out perhaps? And made a joke about it.
The answer is not to even pay Unfunny Carr any attention. As it is now his sales will have skyrocketed because of the umbrage taken (and I bet it wasn't a Roma gypsy who took the umbrage). A prime reason why banning free speech only makes things worse. .
Emo Phillips had a joke once:
"There are two types of shopping malls in every town: The one white folks go to and the one white folks used to go to".
Is that a racist joke? Or is it an observation which is totally true in your personal experience?
Observational comedy is funny because it reveals a truth in a clever or surprising way. Not because it overtly tries to offend a minority group.
I’m completely fine with not being able to stand on a stage and giggle at gypsy genocide without consequences. You’d have to be an absolute weirdo if you think this is an attack on free speech.
I did notice, but the "joke" isn't aimed at Jewish people - it's more of a dig at the UKs obsession with "pikeys" being "wrong'uns", surely people can see that? DB has admitted he's been racist in the past, but that doesn't wipe his slate clean and make him some kind of moral crusader! I'm not saying it's right or particularly funny, but the double standars of Baddeil annoy me. Its also well documented that neither Skinner or Baddeil ever apologised to Jason Lee over the whole thing. I can't stand the fella tbh.
Are you seriously attempting to argue the holocaust has nothing to do with jewish people?
What double standards are you talking about? Baddiel has since said it was racist and a terrible thing to do and has apologised. You're the one bringing up Baddiel, why?
Last word from me, but that is 100% NOT what I said! I only mentioned Baddiel as he was all over the papers talking about the "joke" and saying how awful it was. It just reminded my of his past blacking up and I thought it slightly ironic. Valley of Tears makes a good point about where Carr might have been trying to go with the "joke", which is kinda what I said, but everyone can make their own minds up. Either way, it has either completely backfired on Carr or the attention he's receiving will raise his profile higher and his reputation as an "edgy" comedian will be enhanced, bit like Gervais and Frankie Boyle before him.
Comments
Years ago I went to see Frank Skinner do a comeback tour, circa 2007 I'd guess and he was awesome, and one part that got a mixed reception of hilarity and stony faced silence was a bit he did about paedophiles. It genuinely had me holding my sides but a few people threw their toys out of the pram over it, 2 of whom drink in my local and I remember having a conversation that turned into a bit of a row about how I found it funny so in my eyes it was funny but they couldn't get past their view he was in some way normalising paedophilia which kind of tells you what I was up against. My point was, it was funny, to me. If they don't find it funny, it's not funny, to them. Unfortunately they could not hear past the word "paedophile" which probably makes them the type of people to think anyone who does not have children playing with a kid is a nonce.
Jimmy Carr has done jokes about rape, AIDS, Cancer among other subjects that some people might find distasteful. Its just that, jokes. Like this joke, it takes you somewhere then twists you and leads you somewhere else and its the shock value ot that as well as the "oh bloody hell whats he going to do with this" that makes it a joke.
For me, context is absolutely everything, everything. He isn't making light of the holocaust, he is telling a joke, quite probably in a section of his live show where he even warns the audience things are about to get a bit squirly and gives them a contract almost that he won't mind if anyone leaves who doesn't like the darker, edgier, or I suppose nowadays cancellable stuff.
What he does is light years away from what comedians of old would do which was outright bigotry at its worst but again, let's remember. Of its time
Also to have a pair of divs like Nadine Dorries and Sajid Javid tell the country what they can and cannot laugh at is the biggest, most offensive joke of all.
surprised it made its way into his special, more than anything. Comedians jobs are always going to take risks, but they also should know where the line is (which is where the jokes exist). Should he/Netflix cut this bit? Yes, should he be cancelled for it? No.
The Count Dankula case in Scotland is an interesting one.
A youtuber / comedian convicted of a hate crime for training a pug dog to do a Nazi salute in response to certain phrases. People may find it singularly unamusing (as did I) but the content was such obvious nonsense, and so clearly not an "incitement to racial hatred", that its prosecution set a dangerous precedent IMO.
Ironically of course it is generally the more "clinical" of dictatorships that start with the removal of free speech...
Anyway back to Jimmy Carr, he told a joke in poor taste which is his thing and probably got it wrong this time but what he does isn't an exact science. He clearly isn't a racist, bigot or anti-semite. He's someone telling jokes and should not be analysed by incompetent, privileged "my father was a bus driver" shills for Boris Johnson
The trouble is if all forms of comedy were banned due to offending everyone and everything, they still wouldn't be any happier, in their sad, miserable lives.
You knew before you opened this thread which fun sponges would be straight on it.
Mind you it is the extremely vocal minority who are there straight away, moaning and whinging about so many things, because they haven't the slightest idea about how to enjoy themselves.
What double standards are you talking about? Baddiel has since said it was racist and a terrible thing to do and has apologised. You're the one bringing up Baddiel, why?
What unfunny Mr Carr was clearly revealing in this joke (much as Gervais did in The Office) was not so much scapegoat gypsies or mock holocausts but rather reveal the hypocrisy/double standards many people have with regard racism.
We all know he couldn't get away with mocking blacks, Jews or gays (all of whom I believe perished in concentration camps) but we DO know that most people in our sick and messed up society today, while happy to promote "inclusion" "diversity" and "against hate" are quite comfortable "turning-a-blind-eye" when "poor uneducated inarticulate firebrand white folk" take the brunt of every joke or criticism. Carr has found them out perhaps? And made a joke about it.
The answer is not to even pay Unfunny Carr any attention. As it is now his sales will have skyrocketed because of the umbrage taken (and I bet it wasn't a Roma gypsy who took the umbrage). A prime reason why banning free speech only makes things worse. .
Emo Phillips had a joke once:
"There are two types of shopping malls in every town: The one white folks go to and the one white folks used to go to".
Is that a racist joke? Or is it an observation which is totally true in your personal experience?
Observational comedy is funny because it reveals a truth in a clever or surprising way. Not because it overtly tries to offend a minority group.
He's now getting publically moaned about for one of his jokes....which will probably generate a broader audience for him in his next upcoming gigs.
It's a win win for him.