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What is it about successful businessmen and football?

So you make your money in business, selling top of the range tech, or oil, or whatever the fuck - hiring the right people, managers, CEO's, people that add to the business, we all know the cut and thrust of the business world, these CEO's and leaders are scrupulously vetted, you understand your market, you grew that business from the ground up, so you seek out and hire from a position of knowledge, people at the top of your industry - or at least at the top level you can afford - these people are hired knowing that if they don't perform, then you are replaced. You get rich, through luck or judgement or hard work or whatever... decide to buy a new business... a football club. Suddenly throw all of your business nouse out of the window, hire people incredibly ill-equipped with no experience, or turn around and say "fuck it i'll do it myself" throw millions in investment over years, but continue to make the same mistakes, not changing things at the top boardroom/upper management level, even if you have years of stagnation or even going backwards. Going against every business ideal that made them the success they were in other sectors. 

Or is it just us? 









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    So you make your money in business, selling top of the range tech, or oil, or whatever the fuck - hiring the right people, managers, CEO's, people that add to the business, we all know the cut and thrust of the business world, these CEO's and leaders are scrupulously vetted, you understand your market, you grew that business from the ground up, so you seek out and hire from a position of knowledge, people at the top of your industry - or at least at the top level you can afford - these people are hired knowing that if they don't perform, then you are replaced. You get rich, through luck or judgement or hard work or whatever... decide to buy a new business... a football club. Suddenly throw all of your business nouse out of the window, hire people incredibly ill-equipped with no experience, or turn around and say "fuck it i'll do it myself" throw millions in investment over years, but continue to make the same mistakes, not changing things at the top boardroom/upper management level, even if you have years of stagnation or even going backwards. Going against every business ideal that made them the success they were in other sectors. 

    Or is it just us? 









    That business success breeds an ego, then that ego thinks it's invincible and unchallengeable.

    The only thing that deflates an ego is failure and perhaps in our case that means league two football for the first time in our history. 

    The irony here is having a wealthy backer.....with an ego and knows best attitude.
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    edited March 2022
    “Business” is a very broad term - just because you’re good in one market/industry doesn’t mean you’ll be able to transfer that success to something totally different. Also, football is totally different to almost any other industry where investments are backed up by a business case with a pretty decent chance of the intended outcome from your investment occurring. In football you could throw millions and millions into a club like Charlton and it almost makes no difference in terms of success as there are so many other variables which determine the outcome. The only two reasons I can think of for buying a football club that make any sort of business sense are brand/reputation purposes or because you’ve got so much money you can lose tens/hundreds of millions and not even notice.

    Also, “success” is relevant. Thomas (or Roland) is wealthier than I am, but in terms of wealth (especially disposable wealth) you need to be insanely wealthy to take a club like Charlton on. The losses whilst we’re in L1 (and even in the Championship) are going to be substantial - you really need to be comfortable with those losses and be capable of funding them or bringing in investment to help. 

    I seriously worry that Thomas is a top bloke with great intentions but not the industry knowledge to make a success of this.

    In short, even if you have the money to buy a football club, don’t. 
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    The only successful football club owners are the ones who have the money to treat it as a hobby. Even the Glaziers treat it as a business and look at Utd. Other then the ones who have spent silly money, only really Leicester and to a lesser extent West Ham and Wolves have had recent success and West Ham had a few years of shite beforehand. 

    Sandgaard clearly cares but wants to be hands on and keep costs down. It’s understandable but history proves it’s unlikely to yield success. 
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    edited March 2022
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board

    edit ; apologies cafcfan1990 took my time to respond and missed your response - i respectfully disagree. Running a multi-million establishment as a hobby is the worst possible thing for our club in my opinion. It might be true what you say at he very top of the game but league one and lower? Disagree


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    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
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    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    Looking down the barrel of relegation to league 2? I think that is a huge threat. Can't remember ever feeling even close to that at any point before. Ever.  
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    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    Looking down the barrel of relegation to league 2? I think that is a huge threat. Can't remember ever feeling even close to that at any point before. Ever.  
    Relegation is nothing compared to what was on the cards under the last ownership. 
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    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    The last owners we have had didn’t have a team languishing in 17th place in league 1, and they owned the ground and training ground (the last owner still does). 
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    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    The last owners we have had didn’t have a team languishing in 17th place in league 1, and they owned the ground and training ground (the last owner still does). 
    The last owners of the club did not own the property and they were a significantly more dangerous to our club than Thomas. 
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    se9addick said:
    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    The last owners we have had didn’t have a team languishing in 17th place in league 1, and they owned the ground and training ground (the last owner still does). 
    The last owners of the club did not own the property and they were a significantly more dangerous to our club than Thomas. 
    Because they wanted to make it a player farm? With shit loans that the manager didn't want to play?
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    Who’s worse isn’t the point. Sandgaard’s stewardship of the club isn’t producing results and puts the club in great jeopardy. I don’t feel better knowing it could be worse.
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    I wasn't talking about ESI and you know that very well mate.
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    iainment said:
    Who’s worse isn’t the point. Sandgaard’s stewardship of the club isn’t producing results and puts the club in great jeopardy. I don’t feel better knowing it could be worse.
    does it not concern you that he thinks he can do this without a CEO, any CEO at all? That he think's he can play roulette with a club over a hundred years old with all our history on a whim, just because he has a bit of spare cash and is a bit bored with his life and needs an ego boost? That doesn't sit well with me, don't care if he comes to games, tweets a lot of crap, he doesn't understand football, and until he recognises that and puts somebody in place who knows how low we will sink before he gets bored with us and moves on leaving us where?
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    I wasn't talking about ESI and you know that very well mate.
    “ TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had

    That’s the part of your post I was responding to, that’s why I put it in bold. In my original post on this thread I (thought I) made it clear that I think Sandgaard’s in over his head, but I don’t think he’s more dangerous to our club than any other owner we’ve ever had, ESI & co was a far more concerning situation. 
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    se9addick said:
    I wasn't talking about ESI and you know that very well mate.
    “ TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had

    That’s the part of your post I was responding to, that’s why I put it in bold. In my original post on this thread I (thought I) made it clear that I think Sandgaard’s in over his head, but I don’t think he’s more dangerous to our club than any other owner we’ve ever had, ESI & co was a far more concerning situation. 
    Ok, fair. I don't consider their "ownership" as valid as it never stuck obviously, so I apologise that I never qualified my comment, as i felt it was fairly self evident. If that is your only retort then fine, you win the discussion. ESI were the most dangerous owners we ever had. 
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    where did we finish under ESI by the eay? under a transfer embargo in january of that year? Just out of interest
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    se9addick said:
    I wasn't talking about ESI and you know that very well mate.
    “ TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had

    That’s the part of your post I was responding to, that’s why I put it in bold. In my original post on this thread I (thought I) made it clear that I think Sandgaard’s in over his head, but I don’t think he’s more dangerous to our club than any other owner we’ve ever had, ESI & co was a far more concerning situation. 
    Ok, fair. I don't consider their "ownership" as valid as it never stuck obviously, so I apologise that I never qualified my comment, as i felt it was fairly self evident. If that is your only retort then fine, you win the discussion. ESI were the most dangerous owners we ever had. 
    No worries, it’s all good. 
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    where did we finish under ESI by the eay? under a transfer embargo in january of that year? Just out of interest
    Relegated from the Championship. 
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    se9addick said:
    se9addick said:
    I wasn't talking about ESI and you know that very well mate.
    “ TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had

    That’s the part of your post I was responding to, that’s why I put it in bold. In my original post on this thread I (thought I) made it clear that I think Sandgaard’s in over his head, but I don’t think he’s more dangerous to our club than any other owner we’ve ever had, ESI & co was a far more concerning situation. 
    Ok, fair. I don't consider their "ownership" as valid as it never stuck obviously, so I apologise that I never qualified my comment, as i felt it was fairly self evident. If that is your only retort then fine, you win the discussion. ESI were the most dangerous owners we ever had. 
    No worries, it’s all good. 
    we are all fans here, we are on the same side, we may have different opinions but we want the same thing. My concern is that the owner does not really - which is the entire point of this thread. 
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    iainment said:
    Who’s worse isn’t the point. Sandgaard’s stewardship of the club isn’t producing results and puts the club in great jeopardy. I don’t feel better knowing it could be worse.
    does it not concern you that he thinks he can do this without a CEO, any CEO at all? That he think's he can play roulette with a club over a hundred years old with all our history on a whim, just because he has a bit of spare cash and is a bit bored with his life and needs an ego boost? That doesn't sit well with me, don't care if he comes to games, tweets a lot of crap, he doesn't understand football, and until he recognises that and puts somebody in place who knows how low we will sink before he gets bored with us and moves on leaving us where?
    Did you actually read what I wrote?
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    se9addick said:
    where did we finish under ESI by the eay? under a transfer embargo in january of that year? Just out of interest
    Relegated from the Championship. 
    Has it really only been 2 years in this shit division? Thought it was longer. It feels that way. Apologies that I got my facts wrong. Can't really argue with you on that then. 
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    edited March 2022
    iainment said:
    iainment said:
    Who’s worse isn’t the point. Sandgaard’s stewardship of the club isn’t producing results and puts the club in great jeopardy. I don’t feel better knowing it could be worse.
    does it not concern you that he thinks he can do this without a CEO, any CEO at all? That he think's he can play roulette with a club over a hundred years old with all our history on a whim, just because he has a bit of spare cash and is a bit bored with his life and needs an ego boost? That doesn't sit well with me, don't care if he comes to games, tweets a lot of crap, he doesn't understand football, and until he recognises that and puts somebody in place who knows how low we will sink before he gets bored with us and moves on leaving us where?
    Did you actually read what I wrote?
    Yes, you said who is worse isn't the point - my contention was that it would not be this bad under previous ownership, that was my point whether you agree or not for the reasons i cited in the message you quoted - I was speaking about under RD but i accept under ESI it would be just as bad. You don't have to like that, or even agree, but it's a fact that under RD we were never so low as this in terms of league position, quality in the team or performances. 
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    I don’t know what Charlton’s turnover is, but I guess if you built up a business from scratch to a business worth hundreds of millions, it’s easy to think you could could run a tin pot business like Charlton with no problems, forgetting the intricacies and nuances of football , average ability players getting paid thousands every week and a fan base that’s been through the mill in recent years and is untrusting of motives and intentions of any new owner, particularly when things are said and not backed up with actions.

    I think Thomas’s heart is in the right place, and I hope he doesn’t read a lot of the stuff on twitter, it’s an angry place, and enough to send someone over the edge!
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    edited March 2022
    How do you make a small fortune from a football club? Start with a large one.

    No doubt things like the status, glamour and potential profit attract owners. Probably all apply to TS. It was (is?) also an exciting project for him as a football fan, unlike RD.
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    Interesting point of view, not one I necessarily agree with, that seems to conclude fans get the owners they deserve.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/mar/12/roman-abramovich-and-chelsea-symbolise-the-rotten-state-of-football
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    se9addick said:
    se9addick said:
    i agree with both of you, to be honest, i already knew that I would receive these answers. 

    At this stage as thankful as I am about TS taking ownership of the club away from RD, I have absolutely no doubts that TS has no good intentions regarding us, in fact in terms of intentions i think Roland was at least honest about it. This is a vanity project, a hobby. TS has no intention of even attempting to run the club I love properly, he has just played football manager on PC and thinks that is how it works. 

    TBH I think he is more dangerous to our club than any other owner we have ever had until he has accepted that he doesn't know the first thing about running a football club with a long history and hires a proper CEO/board


    I mean that’s just not true at all, the last owners were a far greater threat. 
    The last owners we have had didn’t have a team languishing in 17th place in league 1, and they owned the ground and training ground (the last owner still does). 
    The last owners of the club did not own the property and they were a significantly more dangerous to our club than Thomas. 
    Shamefully, I’d forgotten about ESI.
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    We're going no where with Sandguard, but backwards, the unthinkable could become a reality, he's delivering on his words to "blow the league apart" if we end up in Division 4 for 2022/23 season. 
    It feels like we're stuck in some horrible hostage - Stockholm Syndrome farce, captured by useless owner after useless owner in SE7.
    The Sandguard, nice guy act only goes so far, actions speak louder than words, the club is in a really perilous position if we get relegated. We certainly are not too big a club to sink into League 2. Where to next? I would love to see a  Varney or a Charlton fan's led consultation take-over of Charlton and end this whole horrible parcel the parcel of useless owners, messing with our club 

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    Running a football club is admin, Football itself is a passion, a romance with no rhyme or reason to it.

    TS is a nice guy with his heart in the right place, BUT putting Jr in a senior position with player recruitment is a huge mistake. 
    Sure have him on the board to make sure Tommy not being short changed, but involved with anything near the playing side is madness
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