I think the issue with Seth's position is a misunderstanding on what the cash out option actually is - it's not there for buyers remorse purposes - you aren't going to just get your stake back when you cash out, it's an offer designed to buy you out of your bet for a lesser amount than the potential winnings (but has to be attractive enough of a profit on the stake to encourage taking it) it's not there to give you a refund because you have changed your mind.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
It would be better to take the money. It may be that by doing so you have lost confidence in your original betting choice.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
It would be better to take the money. It may be that by doing so you have lost confidence in your original betting choice.
Except in the scenario I gave it's not necessarily about losing confidence in the betting choice, more that the temptation to take the money, i.e cash out is too hard to resist.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
Seth commented on something that he admitted was 'hard to understand' and then applied what would appear some thinly veiled agenda to opine on something totally unrelated to the thread topic.
I haven't got any issues at all with people questioning the morality of gambling - sometimes (unsurprisingly) I will defend, at other times I will agree. This isn't really the purpose of this thread though.
Yes, but since when has a thread EVER stayed on topic?
You could do a partial cash out too, with bobs lot anyway. Total headfuck.
I'd choose either a partial cash our or laying to guarantee profit over a total cash out. I remember having a game in Spain I was waiting on for around £200 (£10 stake) and they were 1-0 down at half-time. Still favourites and the cash out £80. I took it thinking I'd rather win £70 and miss out on the extra £120 than watch the last leg of the acca lose. I was wrong, I felt gutted when they won.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, Seth - and this thread about using the cash-out facility has bugger all to do with the rights and wrongs of gambling.
Brace yourself for the endless posts trying to justify why his post taking the thread off at a tangent isn't actually taking the thread off at a tangent at all - which in themselves will be taking the thread off at a tangent. And repeat, ad nauseum.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Because if you're taking the cash out, then more often than not you're going to be taking a profit on your stake, so you've still won something.
I've put on accumulators that have actually gone up (i'm talking pence here nothing world changing) before kick offs. E.g a £1 bet that goes up to like £1.20 on the cash out option - I assumed it was something to do with what other punters are backing effecting the odds in my favour ever so slightly?
Although as soon as the games kick off it always shoots down to like 60% of the original stake on the cash out option.
Thanks to Peanuts, my bet on Delta Work at 66-1 can currently be cashed out for just over four times the stake. And on Fiddlerontheroof for about 8% more than the stake, so it does happen.
Same! Sadly my bet on Ipswich top 6 gives me a cash out of 10% of my original stake. Should take it as better than nothing but seems pointless at that level so will leave it to run and keep fingers crossed they win their last 6 and sneak in!
One for @bobmunro or anyone else who knows. My mate keeps on saying he’s being hard done by when being offered cash out. He’s convinced other punters would be offered more. I said I think it’s an algorithm using the relevant live markets so would be the same for all punters. Short of us both doing the same bet, can anyone say whether cash out offers are tailored considering the particular punters history?
I have been wondering about this all season. Most of my wins (four decent ones) have come from cashing out and, as a result, I think their algorithm (I am a happy Bet365 customer) does take some view of your betting history in adjusting the cashout odds. I have a mate with whom we compare and follow bets and he has been surprised (and disappointed) at what I have been offered recently to cashout. I had never thought of us both doing the same bet - will try that. The other great thing from Bet365 is their early payout if your side goes two goals ahead. This has been positive for me and landed my most recent acca which included Wolves beating Leeds (lead 2-0 but lost 3-2), although I held out and won that without cashing out.
As someone who regularly punts on conference level football, would appreciate the early payout dropping a further league or two.
What I have also done is had a decent 7/8 team acca (mostly non league) and cashed out at H/T, the only option. This has worked pretty well this season.
Remember Gloucester Cardinal? Money for old rope Welling @ 4/1
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
You need to be shrewd here, in this case I wouldn’t do £5 for £100,000 return. I would do 5 separate bets of £1 each for £20,000. Then I give myself 5 chances to cash out or let the bet run.
My usual Saturday £50 treble is usually the same treble but 2x£20 and 1 x £10. This gives me option take a profit early whilst still letting part of the bet run.
My dad and I both bet on football and a few weeks ago amazingly had done the same accumulator on four games, both for a fiver! So from actual experience i can confirm (maybe) randomly, his bet had a lower cash out than mine at all points, and he is a serial cash outer and i'm not!!
The algorithms are of course based on current status and time left - time being the operative word. They change constantly so unless you and your dad requested cash-out at precisely the same time (and I mean precisely) then it would be inevitable there would be some difference in the cash-out quote - you say it was only a couple of quid difference and that could be due to there being just a few seconds between requests.
They'd also need to have placed the bet at the same odds, too; this may have varied
My dad and I both bet on football and a few weeks ago amazingly had done the same accumulator on four games, both for a fiver! So from actual experience i can confirm (maybe) randomly, his bet had a lower cash out than mine at all points, and he is a serial cash outer and i'm not!!
The algorithms are of course based on current status and time left - time being the operative word. They change constantly so unless you and your dad requested cash-out at precisely the same time (and I mean precisely) then it would be inevitable there would be some difference in the cash-out quote - you say it was only a couple of quid difference and that could be due to there being just a few seconds between requests.
They'd also need to have placed the bet at the same odds, too; this may have varied
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
You need to be shrewd here, in this case I wouldn’t do £5 for £100,000 return. I would do 5 separate bets of £1 each for £20,000. Then I give myself 5 chances to cash out or let the bet run.
My usual Saturday £50 treble is usually the same treble but 2x£20 and 1 x £10. This gives me option take a profit early whilst still letting part of the bet run.
Fair point and something I also do, but the average punter who does a footie bet on a saturday wouldn't think like that.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
You need to be shrewd here, in this case I wouldn’t do £5 for £100,000 return. I would do 5 separate bets of £1 each for £20,000. Then I give myself 5 chances to cash out or let the bet run.
My usual Saturday £50 treble is usually the same treble but 2x£20 and 1 x £10. This gives me option take a profit early whilst still letting part of the bet run.
Fair point and something I also do, but the average punter who does a footie bet on a saturday wouldn't think like that.
Isnt this effectively a self-constructed partial cash out? I'm loyal* to bob's lot so dont know if other bookies offer partial cash out facilities, but I'd be surprised if not
* by loyal I mean I can't be bothered to have more than one account and clog up my phone with loads of apps
Cash out is just another bet with on the other side, with similar or worse book margin.
I can see situation where ‘guaranteeing’ winnings makes sense, especially on those 10+ leg accas where cashing gives you six months of salary for example.
The important thing to do before placing a bet is to have an idea of what you’re going to do if the first x legs win. What is a good amount of winnings for you? Are you going to cash out if you can get 50% of the overall potential winnings? Or do you want to push for more? Whatever you decide, draw that outline in your head and stick to your guns on it.
I am a fan of the ‘plan’ posted above where you split your bet into multiple smaller stakes so you can cash out one of them and let the other one run. Best of both worlds there. IMO you’d still need to consider the questions above before placing the bet either way.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
You need to be shrewd here, in this case I wouldn’t do £5 for £100,000 return. I would do 5 separate bets of £1 each for £20,000. Then I give myself 5 chances to cash out or let the bet run.
My usual Saturday £50 treble is usually the same treble but 2x£20 and 1 x £10. This gives me option take a profit early whilst still letting part of the bet run.
Fair point and something I also do, but the average punter who does a footie bet on a saturday wouldn't think like that.
Then the average punter should read this thread… Lol.
This is all hard to understand. People gamble money on what they predict or think or guess will happen in the future. The objective is to be right, and then feel good about themselves if their prediction turns out to be true. But they sometimes doubt themselves and don’t believe they are as good as they thought, so they withdraw their money from the gamble. Where is the feel good factor then? Unless there is something like they have gambled the family’s weekly Universal Credit and want to get the money back before it all goes. They say when the fun stops, stop. But is there any actual fun? It sounds like worry and stress, and possibly guilt that drives the gamblers to change their mind in this way. Are the beneficiaries the gambling companies, where their business objective is to remove enough money from others so they can live on the interest of the interest. Gambling has always been around, and I can see the attraction, even indulged from time to time, but the downsides seem to outweigh the ‘fun’. When they had quiz machines in pubs it was something I liked because it didn’t depend on guessing the future, but using knowledge accumulated from the past.
Not necessarily. What if someone places a £5 acca on a few footie matches for £100,000 return. In the 80th minute all are winning but a couple by the odd goal. The cash out is £40,000, do you really want to be losing out on such a huge payout with a late goal against you? It's a tricky call because you could cash out, they all win and you've missed out on £60,000. Or in other accumulators circumstances could change like the ground changing unfavourably towards one of your horses or you find out a team is resting players.
You need to be shrewd here, in this case I wouldn’t do £5 for £100,000 return. I would do 5 separate bets of £1 each for £20,000. Then I give myself 5 chances to cash out or let the bet run.
My usual Saturday £50 treble is usually the same treble but 2x£20 and 1 x £10. This gives me option take a profit early whilst still letting part of the bet run.
Fair point and something I also do, but the average punter who does a footie bet on a saturday wouldn't think like that.
Isnt this effectively a self-constructed partial cash out? I'm loyal* to bob's lot so dont know if other bookies offer partial cash out facilities, but I'd be surprised if not
* by loyal I mean I can't be bothered to have more than one account and clog up my phone with loads of apps
Some have a similar partial cash out option. I just find splitting the bet that much easier. A very simple option takes seconds longer to put the bet on, but worth it.
Comments
It may be that by doing so you have lost confidence in your original betting choice.
Sadly my bet on Ipswich top 6 gives me a cash out of 10% of my original stake. Should take it as better than nothing but seems pointless at that level so will leave it to run and keep fingers crossed they win their last 6 and sneak in!
This has worked pretty well this season.
Remember Gloucester Cardinal? Money for old rope Welling @ 4/1
I can see situation where ‘guaranteeing’ winnings makes sense, especially on those 10+ leg accas where cashing gives you six months of salary for example.
The important thing to do before placing a bet is to have an idea of what you’re going to do if the first x legs win. What is a good amount of winnings for you? Are you going to cash out if you can get 50% of the overall potential winnings? Or do you want to push for more? Whatever you decide, draw that outline in your head and stick to your guns on it.
I am a fan of the ‘plan’ posted above where you split your bet into multiple smaller stakes so you can cash out one of them and let the other one run. Best of both worlds there. IMO you’d still need to consider the questions above before placing the bet either way.