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Sandgaard and Duchâtelet working together to sell The Valley?
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He's clearly a competent businessman. Sure you can question much about his ownership and ability to run a football club 'hands off', but does that truly happen anywhere?!cafcfan1990 said:
Irrelevant to the question of whether he’s competent thoughCallumcafc said:
Do you believe Sandgaard has ill intentions?Airman Brown said:
I find it equally troubling that some people seem to think there should be no discussion at all because Sandgaard isn’t Southall.cafctom said:
Indeed, and fair play to them for those efforts.Maccn05 said:
To be fair some of those ‘personalities’ were the first to out Nimer & Southall… while others were falling over themselves for selfies.colthe3rd said:If the only source of these rumours is the usual twitter personalities I doubt there is much to worry about.
Not that I’m saying I believe this rumour at all.
Just a shame it seems to have lead to a culture of having to find conspiracy in absolutely everything the current owner does.0 -
Not interested in going over the same tired ground about property values or who was right about Southall first or the even more pointless twitter v CL debate (neither is a collective with a single view, both are made up of 1000s of individuals with different takes and many 1000s post and/or read both.
I would genuinely like to know from where the guy on twitter got his information, what exactly it was and did he get a response from TS?
He's not an idiot or whatever, just a fan asking a question.
Did he get the wrong end of the stick re: RD "selling" to TS or is this new information that RD is selling "with" RD?
Either way I'd like to know.10 -
Large property development companies buy land exactly when there is an economic downturn because its when it is at is cheapest. Most of these type of companies stockpile parcels of land to sit on till it becomes viable.Bailey said:
I wouldn't have thought there would be too many takers Airman, we are in the biggest economic downturn in living memory and what would anyone want with a third division football club or indeed a ground with any proposed development fraught with problems.Airman Brown said:The difficulty is that The Valley isn’t worth what Duchatelet has always wanted for it. If he’s ready to sell it for £20m someone might think it’s worth a go. Anything more probably assumes vacant possession and consent.2 -
Being a competent businessman means nothing, football is completely different. And as for whether it happens anywhere, it’s very rare, and that’s why he’s getting criticism for trying to be different.Dazzler21 said:
He's clearly a competent businessman. Sure you can question much about his ownership and ability to run a football club 'hands off', but does that truly happen anywhere?!cafcfan1990 said:
Irrelevant to the question of whether he’s competent thoughCallumcafc said:
Do you believe Sandgaard has ill intentions?Airman Brown said:
I find it equally troubling that some people seem to think there should be no discussion at all because Sandgaard isn’t Southall.cafctom said:
Indeed, and fair play to them for those efforts.Maccn05 said:
To be fair some of those ‘personalities’ were the first to out Nimer & Southall… while others were falling over themselves for selfies.colthe3rd said:If the only source of these rumours is the usual twitter personalities I doubt there is much to worry about.
Not that I’m saying I believe this rumour at all.
Just a shame it seems to have lead to a culture of having to find conspiracy in absolutely everything the current owner does.0 -
Silly comment, I’m not a Sandgaard fan but if he bought the land & property I’d be delighted and give him massive kudos for doing so - as we all know the separation of these from the club is a huge risk to our future.Dazzler21 said:
They'd come up with something.shirty5 said:
Why would they? Any names to your assumption?Dazzler21 said:If Sandgaard bought the Valley from Duchatelet, people on here would still moan about it.
Why didn't he use that money on transfers.
Why didn't he spend on a big name manager.
Why didn't he sort the catering staff.
Why didn't he sack and pay off Tony Keohane.
I don't need to name drop, they're a vocal enough group that have decided Sandgaard will never be any good.
But even in doing so it again doesn’t mean no fan could ever question him again because everything is constantly evolving and life just doesn’t work that way.0 -
If any group of fans have a need to be, or have learned to be super vigilant and suspicious, it’s us.
I think all information, even if it eventually turns out to be taking us down a dead end, is worth examining.
Just before he ‘took over’ I posted on Charlton Life suspicions I had heard about Southall and Nimer and money, and was quite forcibly criticised for doing so ‘that Seth Plum always talks s**t’. Well it turns out that on that occasion at least reporting what I had heard wasn’t s**t at all.
All information is important, even if only to be eliminated later as we learn more.
Keep up with the so called paranoia I say.9 -
You forgot car park pot holesDazzler21 said:
They'd come up with something.shirty5 said:
Why would they? Any names to your assumption?Dazzler21 said:If Sandgaard bought the Valley from Duchatelet, people on here would still moan about it.
Why didn't he use that money on transfers.
Why didn't he spend on a big name manager.
Why didn't he sort the catering staff.
Why didn't he sack and pay off Tony Keohane.
I don't need to name drop, they're a vocal enough group that have decided Sandgaard will never be any good.2 -
I am very ready to be a Sandgaard fan, I have the Danish flag behind Muttley but to make me a true Sandgaard fan, I need to see clear evidence the club is being well run. I always thought the idea was to come in and run it better than anybody else could and I am yet to see evidence of that. In fact there is some evidence of poor management.5
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And the chips themselves from the catering staff.Taxi_Lad said:
You forgot car park pot holesDazzler21 said:
They'd come up with something.shirty5 said:
Why would they? Any names to your assumption?Dazzler21 said:If Sandgaard bought the Valley from Duchatelet, people on here would still moan about it.
Why didn't he use that money on transfers.
Why didn't he spend on a big name manager.
Why didn't he sort the catering staff.
Why didn't he sack and pay off Tony Keohane.
I don't need to name drop, they're a vocal enough group that have decided Sandgaard will never be any good.0 -
We need to be rid of TK I think Muttley, no idea why it hasn't happened.1
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There is a very big difference between someone with £40k being left with £14k (and only ten months of shattered dreams to show for it) and someone with £76m being left with "only" £26m, and a football ground as an asset.alburyaddick said:
Have you checked out the Zynex share price recently. The market cap is c £190m and TS owns c 40% so his current shareholding is worth c £76m. I assume that you wouldn’t want to spend 65% of your wealth on a season ticket. No doubt he will have made a decent amount from his original float but there is no way he will want to afford the purchase of The ValleyDA9 said:
He can afford it, just like I can afford to renew my season ticket right now, just don’t want too, can spend my money on better and more sensible things currently, hell of a difference between not physically having the money and affordability/choicealburyaddick said:There is no way that TS can really afford to buy The Valley at Roland’s ludicrous £50m price tag.However, bearing in mind his annual losses of £5-8m it’s entirely possible that he will be considering all strategies to get some of that back including any potential property plays - all the previous owners have ended up looking at it in some way1 -
I think there are three aspects to this. Firstly it is the team. You have to get the right man in charge and support him. Is Jacko the right man? I think he could be but we won't know until next season. However, if he isn't supported in putting the issues right, in much the same way as Powell was we will never know. We started this season woefully short and then made some desperate signings so we need, like Powell did, to get as much of the business as possible done quickly.
Secondly, you have everything around the the first team, like the medical people, youth teams, academy and recruitment. We seem to have more than our fair share of injuries which could be bad luck of course. It could be we are bringing in too many injury prone players. There seems to be quality in our youth but there is also an issue about realising it. The fact that we sold Burstow for a significant amount and signed Kanu on a new contract suggests we are heading in the right direction youth team wise. We also have the prospect of money coming in for Gomez and Pope.
Finally, there is the overall management of the club, the strategic decision making. I think this has not been a position of strength but maybe mistakes needed to be made to learn from them. We also have been poorly managed in this respect for quite a while so it might be a bit like stopping an oil tanker.1 -
I think promotion to the Premier League is probably the point TS buys the Valley if he has agreed a price now with Roland. We seem to have stalled on that though, finding it hard to get out of League One and getting beaten by the likes of Crewe!
What is a fact is that a Third Division club with Championship overheads and no assets like a ground or training ground is not that attractive a proposition.2 -
Isn't the deal with Roland 15 years anyway? So likelyhood is that the intention was to get to the PL within 15 years, despite the soundbites stating otherwise.0
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We're never making it back to the Premier League. We've been away from it for too long and just won't ever have the sort of financial backing required to get there. The difference in money between the levels is getting bigger and bigger and we're getting left behind. Unfortunately for us, we were probably in the PL a decade too early.MuttleyCAFC said:I think promotion to the Premier League is probably the point TS buys the Valley if he has agreed a price now with Roland. We seem to have stalled on that though, finding it hard to get out of League One and getting beaten by the likes of Crewe!
What is a fact is that a Third Division club with Championship overheads and no assets like a ground or training ground is not that attractive a proposition.0 -
Luton Town could get promoted this season. Luton Town!Croydon said:
We're never making it back to the Premier League. We've been away from it for too long and just won't ever have the sort of financial backing required to get there. The difference in money between the levels is getting bigger and bigger and we're getting left behind. Unfortunately for us, we were probably in the PL a decade too early.MuttleyCAFC said:I think promotion to the Premier League is probably the point TS buys the Valley if he has agreed a price now with Roland. We seem to have stalled on that though, finding it hard to get out of League One and getting beaten by the likes of Crewe!
What is a fact is that a Third Division club with Championship overheads and no assets like a ground or training ground is not that attractive a proposition.
It's not impossible, albeit more difficult than it was.19 -
What would that look like in practice? If it was to make a profit by developing the land for housing he'd have gone about it a very strange way. He's obviously something of an egotist, but as long as his involvement benefits Charlton none of us is likely to care. I'm sure he thought he could make a profit by taking the club to the Premier League, ditto. However, there are wide areas for debate as to his ability to deliver, based on performance to date. I think it's perfectly healthy to explore those objectively.Callumcafc said:
Do you believe Sandgaard has ill intentions?Airman Brown said:
I find it equally troubling that some people seem to think there should be no discussion at all because Sandgaard isn’t Southall.cafctom said:
Indeed, and fair play to them for those efforts.Maccn05 said:
To be fair some of those ‘personalities’ were the first to out Nimer & Southall… while others were falling over themselves for selfies.colthe3rd said:If the only source of these rumours is the usual twitter personalities I doubt there is much to worry about.
Not that I’m saying I believe this rumour at all.
Just a shame it seems to have lead to a culture of having to find conspiracy in absolutely everything the current owner does.4 -
Is that a "no"?Airman Brown said:
What would that look like in practice? If it was to make a profit by developing the land for housing he'd have gone about it a very strange way. He's obviously something of an egotist, but as long as that benefits Charlton none of us is likely to care. I'm sure he thought he could make a profit by taking the club to the Premier League, ditto. However, there are wide areas for debate as to his ability to deliver, based on performance to date. I think it's perfectly healthy to explore those objectively.Callumcafc said:
Do you believe Sandgaard has ill intentions?Airman Brown said:
I find it equally troubling that some people seem to think there should be no discussion at all because Sandgaard isn’t Southall.cafctom said:
Indeed, and fair play to them for those efforts.Maccn05 said:
To be fair some of those ‘personalities’ were the first to out Nimer & Southall… while others were falling over themselves for selfies.colthe3rd said:If the only source of these rumours is the usual twitter personalities I doubt there is much to worry about.
Not that I’m saying I believe this rumour at all.
Just a shame it seems to have lead to a culture of having to find conspiracy in absolutely everything the current owner does.0 -
I don't think his intention is or has been to prosper personally by damaging the club, nor do I think he is acting undercover for anyone else. I don't know what other "ill intention" he could reasonably have.Off_it said:
Is that a "no"?Airman Brown said:
What would that look like in practice? If it was to make a profit by developing the land for housing he'd have gone about it a very strange way. He's obviously something of an egotist, but as long as that benefits Charlton none of us is likely to care. I'm sure he thought he could make a profit by taking the club to the Premier League, ditto. However, there are wide areas for debate as to his ability to deliver, based on performance to date. I think it's perfectly healthy to explore those objectively.Callumcafc said:
Do you believe Sandgaard has ill intentions?Airman Brown said:
I find it equally troubling that some people seem to think there should be no discussion at all because Sandgaard isn’t Southall.cafctom said:
Indeed, and fair play to them for those efforts.Maccn05 said:
To be fair some of those ‘personalities’ were the first to out Nimer & Southall… while others were falling over themselves for selfies.colthe3rd said:If the only source of these rumours is the usual twitter personalities I doubt there is much to worry about.
Not that I’m saying I believe this rumour at all.
Just a shame it seems to have lead to a culture of having to find conspiracy in absolutely everything the current owner does.
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At this point Id be happy to just be a competitive Championship level club, which some would argue is our 'natural' level. I dont think thats too much to ask for given the size of our club, especially when you see the likes of Millwall and Luton competing at the upper reaches of that level without billionaires backing them.Croydon said:
We're never making it back to the Premier League. We've been away from it for too long and just won't ever have the sort of financial backing required to get there. The difference in money between the levels is getting bigger and bigger and we're getting left behind. Unfortunately for us, we were probably in the PL a decade too early.MuttleyCAFC said:I think promotion to the Premier League is probably the point TS buys the Valley if he has agreed a price now with Roland. We seem to have stalled on that though, finding it hard to get out of League One and getting beaten by the likes of Crewe!
What is a fact is that a Third Division club with Championship overheads and no assets like a ground or training ground is not that attractive a proposition.
If we could get back there thats something to build from, and you only need to have 1 really good season, sometimes from out of nowhere to land in the prem, basically like palarse in 12/13.
Ive said this before but I think the championship is really back to square 1 for Charlton, where we are now is square minus 1.16 -
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I think Powell could have taken us up to the PL with just a little bit more backing. You firstly have to get the club moving forwards and then build on that. It is premature talking too much about that now as we have had a shite season in League One, but get promoted next season, there is a potential springboard which could help us push on if the backing is there.11
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That makes an assumption that Roland is open to selling the Valley at a knocked down rate. I might agree if he was a man desperate to off load, sorry but he is getting paid a tidy rental for use of the Valley and he still believes that he money he squandered should be repaid within any sale of the Valley.StrikerFirmani said:
Large property development companies buy land exactly when there is an economic downturn because its when it is at is cheapest. Most of these type of companies stockpile parcels of land to sit on till it becomes viable.Bailey said:
I wouldn't have thought there would be too many takers Airman, we are in the biggest economic downturn in living memory and what would anyone want with a third division football club or indeed a ground with any proposed development fraught with problems.Airman Brown said:The difficulty is that The Valley isn’t worth what Duchatelet has always wanted for it. If he’s ready to sell it for £20m someone might think it’s worth a go. Anything more probably assumes vacant possession and consent.0 -
I think your right. After promotion you probably have a 2 or 3 season window to get promoted again. With the momentum, keeping the team together, before the wage bill slowly bloates.MuttleyCAFC said:I think Powell could have taken us up to the PL with just a little bit more backing. You firstly have to get the club moving forwards and then build on that. It is premature talking too much about that now as we have had a shite season in League One, but get promoted next season, there is a potential springboard which could help us push on if the backing is there.1 -
Brentford got promoted without splashing serious money, without having an academy, and with crowds of about 10k.Airman Brown said:
Luton Town could get promoted this season. Luton Town!Croydon said:
We're never making it back to the Premier League. We've been away from it for too long and just won't ever have the sort of financial backing required to get there. The difference in money between the levels is getting bigger and bigger and we're getting left behind. Unfortunately for us, we were probably in the PL a decade too early.MuttleyCAFC said:I think promotion to the Premier League is probably the point TS buys the Valley if he has agreed a price now with Roland. We seem to have stalled on that though, finding it hard to get out of League One and getting beaten by the likes of Crewe!
What is a fact is that a Third Division club with Championship overheads and no assets like a ground or training ground is not that attractive a proposition.
It's not impossible, albeit more difficult than it was.
You can get to the PL with a good manager, good tactics, players who all know their role, and being shrewd in the transfer market.
They sign good players, sell them at huge profit, reinvest it and repeat. They got promoted last year and in the process still made 40m+ selling Watkins and Benrahma. So you don't need a stupidly rich owner if the club is well run.10 -
To be fair to Bowyer, when we got promoted, Roland immediately started trying to penny pinch. he then sold us to a bunch of crooks which prevented us doing any meaningful business in the January Window. We only got relegated due to the ref missing an added time offside goal at Barnsley.7
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So, any update on the original email?1
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I don't disagree with you regarding Roland attitude toward selling and that he probably still wants his delusional 50M. However he isn't getting any younger and might consider selling at less, we don't know. Also as property increases in price even if the Valley price stagnates at 50M other prospects will increase, coupled with inflation over time 50M will seem less at some point, thus it may not look so unviable as it has.Bailey said:
That makes an assumption that Roland is open to selling the Valley at a knocked down rate. I might agree if he was a man desperate to off load, sorry but he is getting paid a tidy rental for use of the Valley and he still believes that he money he squandered should be repaid within any sale of the Valley.StrikerFirmani said:
Large property development companies buy land exactly when there is an economic downturn because its when it is at is cheapest. Most of these type of companies stockpile parcels of land to sit on till it becomes viable.Bailey said:
I wouldn't have thought there would be too many takers Airman, we are in the biggest economic downturn in living memory and what would anyone want with a third division football club or indeed a ground with any proposed development fraught with problems.Airman Brown said:The difficulty is that The Valley isn’t worth what Duchatelet has always wanted for it. If he’s ready to sell it for £20m someone might think it’s worth a go. Anything more probably assumes vacant possession and consent.
This is hypothetical and I'm sure their are the usual no buts to anything for anything being proposed for the Valley. Say TS thinks how can we utilise The Valley in a business play to get a third party involved to lessen his outlay to get his hands on the freehold. I know it was mentioned under RD's reign of incorporating another business on the Valley along with the stadium. Perhaps the J Seed stand was rebuilt incorporating a hotel. Lets say Premier Inn for example. Then it becomes a different business proposition with a third party.
Yes I know there are multiple problems against anything being done with the Valley, but when big business decides to get involved they find solutions to most problems where development is concerned you only have to look at the City of London to see good buildings being torn down for even bigger ones for big bucks when developers see a niche.
I am not suggesting any of this is likely the point is you never know whats around the corner when business gets a thought.
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Pedant alert!!!!Cafc43v3r said:
I think your right. After promotion you probably have a 2 or 3 season window to get promoted again. With the momentum, keeping the team together, before the wage bill slowly bloates.MuttleyCAFC said:I think Powell could have taken us up to the PL with just a little bit more backing. You firstly have to get the club moving forwards and then build on that. It is premature talking too much about that now as we have had a shite season in League One, but get promoted next season, there is a potential springboard which could help us push on if the backing is there.
you’re not your.🤨1 -
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Hmmm.Dazzler21 said:We need to be rid of TK I think Muttley, no idea why it hasn't happened.
Has anyone else heard the rumour that Burger Boy is RD's eyes & ears at our club ?
And as such, presumably employed by our ex .....3
