I'm undecided if Serena would be in the Top 5 greatest Tennis Players of all time, never mind the greatest in all sports. Longevity doesn't by itself make someone better, Jimmy Anderson might be an England great, but I wouldn't say he was necessarily better than Fred Trueman just because he took more TEST wickets, as he's had the benefit of modern diet and medicine, and hardly having to play county cricket for several years.
It's not as if Serena's 23 Slams puts her way ahead of everyone else in the Open Era, Steffi Graf had 22 while Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova had 18 each, and arguably prevented each other winning more. And Martina had 32 women's doubles wins, putting her way ahead of everyone else
He presented me with a cricket medal/shield when I was at school. I was really surprised how short he was or maybe I was a big 15 year old and didn’t realise it. I met him quite a few years later, he had a bouncy castle business, BJs. I hired one for my sons birthday 4th birthday party. We talked about his dips and squats on superstars. He came across as a nice guy.
He presented me with a cricket medal/shield when I was at school. I was really surprised how short he was or maybe I was a big 15 year old and didn’t realise it. I met him quite a few years later, he had a bouncy castle business, BJs. I hired one for my sons birthday 4th birthday party. We talked about his dips and squats on superstars. He came across as a nice guy.
Taught me judo as a kid in Orpington (well for the couple of weeks I was into Judo).
Can imagine a lot of disappointed stag dos in the 90s ordered BJs and it turned out not to be what was expected.
He presented me with a cricket medal/shield when I was at school. I was really surprised how short he was or maybe I was a big 15 year old and didn’t realise it. I met him quite a few years later, he had a bouncy castle business, BJs. I hired one for my sons birthday 4th birthday party. We talked about his dips and squats on superstars. He came across as a nice guy.
Taught me judo as a kid in Orpington (well for the couple of weeks I was into Judo).
Can imagine a lot of disappointed stag dos in the 90s ordered BJs and it turned out not to be what was expected.
Lives in Thailand now I think.
Pattaya, which is fitting after calling his company BJs.
I'm undecided if Serena would be in the Top 5 greatest Tennis Players of all time, never mind the greatest in all sports. Longevity doesn't by itself make someone better, Jimmy Anderson might be an England great, but I wouldn't say he was necessarily better than Fred Trueman just because he took more TEST wickets, as he's had the benefit of modern diet and medicine, and hardly having to play county cricket for several years.
It's not as if Serena's 23 Slams puts her way ahead of everyone else in the Open Era, Steffi Graf had 22 while Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova had 18 each, and arguably prevented each other winning more. And Martina had 32 women's doubles wins, putting her way ahead of everyone else
well, lets be honest here, the whole point of that table in the first place was because Serena has retired. That's why she's there.
She couldn't just be celebrated for what she did in women's sport, where she would absolutely be in the top 5.
This type of thread seems to pop up from time to time. Surely no list of top sportsmen (or women) is complete without mention of CB Fry. Best known as a classic England batsman he was also a top class sprinter and world record holder in the long jump - also a hurdler. He played in a CupFinal for Southampton and - icing on the cake - played rugby for Blackheath and was named in a North v South game which was a sort of international trial.
This photo has been doing the rounds as it's Americans being Americans and forgetting the rest of the world (and Michael Phelps apparently) exist:
But how wrong are they? At least 4 (I dont watch baseball so little idea there) would be in with a shout to be honest, but then it ignores so many others.
Who would you actually have in yours?
Messi? Bolt? Bradman (got to be better than Babe Ruth in a hitting things with a bat sport, surely?)? Tiger Woods? Federer? Cory Gibbs?
So I'm going to be the dickhead who gets really pedantic:
I think there's sometimes a difference between the "Best" athlete in a sport, and the most transformative.
Tiger Woods is a good example: is he the best ever golfer? Maybe, there are others with more wins and more Majors but he did it in a shorter amount of time. Did he transform golf? I think the answer to that is absolutely.
I know baseball references wont' be the most popular here, but I think Babe Ruth is probably another one. Was he transformative? Yes, primarily in that he was a good pitcher and hitter, and also one of the biggest and first stars of the sport. Was he the best ever? No, I think there are two players playing now who are better, or at least arguably will be when their careers are finished (Trout and Ohtani).
I think Michael Jordan is an example of both. He transformed at least a role in basketball in terms of the playmaker/scorer who can do everything, and he was also the best to ever do it.
This type of thread seems to pop up from time to time. Surely no list of top sportsmen (or women) is complete without mention of CB Fry. Best known as a classic England batsman he was also a top class sprinter and world record holder in the long jump - also a hurdler. He played in a CupFinal for Southampton and - icing on the cake - played rugby for Blackheath and was named in a North v South game which was a sort of international trial.
Since people are including Tiger Woods I'll stick Ronnie O'Sullivans name in the mix
Yes, I read the thread as 'athletes' - but if it's sportsmen/women then although I would still say Ali number 1 as he is the greatest athlete and sportsman, I would include Woods among others.
This photo has been doing the rounds as it's Americans being Americans and forgetting the rest of the world (and Michael Phelps apparently) exist:
But how wrong are they? At least 4 (I dont watch baseball so little idea there) would be in with a shout to be honest, but then it ignores so many others.
Who would you actually have in yours?
Messi? Bolt? Bradman (got to be better than Babe Ruth in a hitting things with a bat sport, surely?)? Tiger Woods? Federer? Cory Gibbs?
So I'm going to be the dickhead who gets really pedantic:
I think there's sometimes a difference between the "Best" athlete in a sport, and the most transformative.
Tiger Woods is a good example: is he the best ever golfer? Maybe, there are others with more wins and more Majors but he did it in a shorter amount of time. Did he transform golf? I think the answer to that is absolutely.
I know baseball references wont' be the most popular here, but I think Babe Ruth is probably another one. Was he transformative? Yes, primarily in that he was a good pitcher and hitter, and also one of the biggest and first stars of the sport. Was he the best ever? No, I think there are two players playing now who are better, or at least arguably will be when their careers are finished (Trout and Ohtani).
I think Michael Jordan is an example of both. He transformed at least a role in basketball in terms of the playmaker/scorer who can do everything, and he was also the best to ever do it.
If we are talking about transformative then we are back to Fosbury .
Literally changed how the sport was played.
or do you mean transformative as in changed how we knew the game could be played? Tiger Woods hit the ball harder and further than anyone before him, Ali juked and jived and talked like nobody before him, Maradona took the ball around people like never before him, Bolt ran faster than man has ever recorded and still had time to showboat in a 9 second race, Ronnie O'Sullivan could win with his left hand in 5 minutes and score a maximum...
Does dominance and shattering records count or is it about being at the top over a period of time and being the best? Does the sport matter? The competition?
That's why this is such a hard question and such a flipping interesting conversation.
This photo has been doing the rounds as it's Americans being Americans and forgetting the rest of the world (and Michael Phelps apparently) exist:
But how wrong are they? At least 4 (I dont watch baseball so little idea there) would be in with a shout to be honest, but then it ignores so many others.
Who would you actually have in yours?
Messi? Bolt? Bradman (got to be better than Babe Ruth in a hitting things with a bat sport, surely?)? Tiger Woods? Federer? Cory Gibbs?
So I'm going to be the dickhead who gets really pedantic:
I think there's sometimes a difference between the "Best" athlete in a sport, and the most transformative.
Tiger Woods is a good example: is he the best ever golfer? Maybe, there are others with more wins and more Majors but he did it in a shorter amount of time. Did he transform golf? I think the answer to that is absolutely.
I know baseball references wont' be the most popular here, but I think Babe Ruth is probably another one. Was he transformative? Yes, primarily in that he was a good pitcher and hitter, and also one of the biggest and first stars of the sport. Was he the best ever? No, I think there are two players playing now who are better, or at least arguably will be when their careers are finished (Trout and Ohtani).
I think Michael Jordan is an example of both. He transformed at least a role in basketball in terms of the playmaker/scorer who can do everything, and he was also the best to ever do it.
If we are talking about transformative then we are back to Fosbury .
Literally changed how the sport was played.
or do you mean transformative as in changed how we knew the game could be played? Tiger Woods hit the ball harder and further than anyone before him, Ali juked and jived and talked like nobody before him, Maradona took the ball around people like never before him, Bolt ran faster than man has ever recorded and still had time to showboat in a 9 second race, Ronnie O'Sullivan could win with his left hand in 5 minutes and score a maximum...
Does dominance and shattering records count or is it about being at the top over a period of time and being the best? Does the sport matter? The competition?
That's why this is such a hard question and such a flipping interesting conversation.
It's hard to compare sportsmen from different eras and invariably those who have competed more recently will finish higher up the list.
Eddy Merckx deserves a mention.
The best I've been lucky enough to see are Nicklaus O'Sullivan Bolt
This photo has been doing the rounds as it's Americans being Americans and forgetting the rest of the world (and Michael Phelps apparently) exist:
But how wrong are they? At least 4 (I dont watch baseball so little idea there) would be in with a shout to be honest, but then it ignores so many others.
Who would you actually have in yours?
Messi? Bolt? Bradman (got to be better than Babe Ruth in a hitting things with a bat sport, surely?)? Tiger Woods? Federer? Cory Gibbs?
So I'm going to be the dickhead who gets really pedantic:
I think there's sometimes a difference between the "Best" athlete in a sport, and the most transformative.
Tiger Woods is a good example: is he the best ever golfer? Maybe, there are others with more wins and more Majors but he did it in a shorter amount of time. Did he transform golf? I think the answer to that is absolutely.
I know baseball references wont' be the most popular here, but I think Babe Ruth is probably another one. Was he transformative? Yes, primarily in that he was a good pitcher and hitter, and also one of the biggest and first stars of the sport. Was he the best ever? No, I think there are two players playing now who are better, or at least arguably will be when their careers are finished (Trout and Ohtani).
I think Michael Jordan is an example of both. He transformed at least a role in basketball in terms of the playmaker/scorer who can do everything, and he was also the best to ever do it.
If we are talking about transformative then we are back to Fosbury .
Literally changed how the sport was played.
or do you mean transformative as in changed how we knew the game could be played? Tiger Woods hit the ball harder and further than anyone before him, Ali juked and jived and talked like nobody before him, Maradona took the ball around people like never before him, Bolt ran faster than man has ever recorded and still had time to showboat in a 9 second race, Ronnie O'Sullivan could win with his left hand in 5 minutes and score a maximum...
Does dominance and shattering records count or is it about being at the top over a period of time and being the best? Does the sport matter? The competition?
That's why this is such a hard question and such a flipping interesting conversation.
It's hard to compare sportsmen from different eras and invariably those who have competed more recently will finish higher up the list.
Eddy Merckx deserves a mention.
The best I've been lucky enough to see are Nicklaus O'Sullivan Bolt
not only that - it's difficult to compare sports as well - that's why it's an impossible question
Bob Beamon - When everbody else was looking for 28 feet he jumped 29 feet. (long not high). Dick Fosberry - Changed High jumping forever. W.G. Grace - Vital in developing the game - played first class cricket for 44 seasons. Michael Phelps - More gold medals than anyone Sergey Bubka - Broke World record 35 times.
Comments
It's not as if Serena's 23 Slams puts her way ahead of everyone else in the Open Era, Steffi Graf had 22 while Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova had 18 each, and arguably prevented each other winning more. And Martina had 32 women's doubles wins, putting her way ahead of everyone else
I met him quite a few years later, he had a bouncy castle business, BJs. I hired one for my sons birthday 4th birthday party. We talked about his dips and squats on superstars. He came across as a nice guy.
Taught me judo as a kid in Orpington (well for the couple of weeks I was into Judo).
Can imagine a lot of disappointed stag dos in the 90s ordered BJs and it turned out not to be what was expected.
Lives in Thailand now I think.
No one mentioned Shane Warne?
Wouldn't get in the top million athletes but must he in the top 5 sports persons.
She couldn't just be celebrated for what she did in women's sport, where she would absolutely be in the top 5.
edit* of a lot of people's lists*
Newcastle when Keegan did the "i'd love it" interview
Hamilton last year in F1
England V Italy Euros
Mike Atherton
Jimmy White
Michael Jackson
Michael Myers
Michael Caine
Princess Michael of Kent
Michael Droy
I think there's sometimes a difference between the "Best" athlete in a sport, and the most transformative.
Tiger Woods is a good example: is he the best ever golfer? Maybe, there are others with more wins and more Majors but he did it in a shorter amount of time. Did he transform golf? I think the answer to that is absolutely.
I know baseball references wont' be the most popular here, but I think Babe Ruth is probably another one. Was he transformative? Yes, primarily in that he was a good pitcher and hitter, and also one of the biggest and first stars of the sport. Was he the best ever? No, I think there are two players playing now who are better, or at least arguably will be when their careers are finished (Trout and Ohtani).
I think Michael Jordan is an example of both. He transformed at least a role in basketball in terms of the playmaker/scorer who can do everything, and he was also the best to ever do it.
Yes, I read the thread as 'athletes' - but if it's sportsmen/women then although I would still say Ali number 1 as he is the greatest athlete and sportsman, I would include Woods among others.
Literally changed how the sport was played.
or do you mean transformative as in changed how we knew the game could be played? Tiger Woods hit the ball harder and further than anyone before him, Ali juked and jived and talked like nobody before him, Maradona took the ball around people like never before him, Bolt ran faster than man has ever recorded and still had time to showboat in a 9 second race, Ronnie O'Sullivan could win with his left hand in 5 minutes and score a maximum...
Does dominance and shattering records count or is it about being at the top over a period of time and being the best? Does the sport matter? The competition?
That's why this is such a hard question and such a flipping interesting conversation.
guy revolutionises the sport, never practiced in the build up... showed up to the olympics and got a world record then never did it again.
That's like Roberto Carlos turning up and hitting that free kick v France then going home and never playing again.
Eddy Merckx deserves a mention.
The best I've been lucky enough to see are
Nicklaus
O'Sullivan
Bolt
Michael Phelps
Tom Brady
Usain Bolt
Lionel Messi
Honourable mentions for Roger Federer and Tiger Woods.
Can’t forget Bradman either.
Dick Fosberry - Changed High jumping forever.
W.G. Grace - Vital in developing the game - played first class cricket for 44 seasons.
Michael Phelps - More gold medals than anyone
Sergey Bubka - Broke World record 35 times.