Head On: Rugby, Dementia and Me

killerandflash

Anyone else she this programme about the former England rugby player Steve Thompson? Very sad seeing what he's going through at such a young age, I was wincing at the replays of all those hits.

But just as with the related Alan Shearer documentary on heading related dementia, the real killer is the hours of training, with endless hits on the brain.

MuttleyCAFC

There seems to be a question as to whether the cause is a few major concussions or many minor ones or indeed a combination of both. If you play football, and even more so Rugby, to any sort of decent standard these are unavoidable over the years you play. All of us who played can think of a few incidents i'm sure.

The authorities usually come at this from a point of denial. They have to change that. As a football nut, I find it incredibly hard to say that as I fear the consequences and it is a big reason why the sports can't be expected to mark their own homework on this. 

robinofottershaw

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many are still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

robinofottershaw said:

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

Dementia is a horrendous condition - it's a stain on the world of sport how little action has been taken.

killerandflash

robinofottershaw said:

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

Agreed, the lack of big names was quite disappointing. Don't they care, or are they too "close" to the establishment to speak out?

Making_all_the_noise

Agree, it feels like negligence how this is swept under the carpet. It should be front and centre of how we discuss sport. It's akin to the denial over the health effects of smoking.

One fairly prominent voice on the subject is Carl Frampton and it is interesting to hear him talk about his regrets at the amount of sparring he did in his youth. He strongly advises against regular sparring now and is outspoken at boxers who continue fighting beyond their prime. There need to be more voices in the media like him and beyond the boxing world.

I played hours of football every day and by my late teens was playing headers and volleys for an hour a day. That went on for a good four/five years. I'm in a funny position in that I blossomed late as a player and by the age of 21 was getting a lot of interest from professional teams but then injured my ankle badly and barely played thereafter. I had to stop playing a sport that was my absolute passion and potentially a dream profession.

I look back now and I'm genuinely grateful that it never materialised. The 'Concussion' film a few years back with Will Smith really shocked me and is a must watch. The follow up evidence all suggests that another fifteen years of me heading a football every day would not have done me much good at all. Nothing in life is as important as good health. Football, alongside all other sports, needs to square up to this reality because right now it looks like a cover up driven by commercial interests. Nothing short of a scandal.

_MrDick

I used to play rugby and I’ve taken some bangs to the head (not anywhere near as bad as Steve Thompson et al). But I’m now 63 and I’m having trouble remembering names and stuff. I recognise faces but I can’t remember names. Is that just an age thing or early onset dementia.. who knows 

Nug

I don’t think the NFL have learned anything see video below. Concussion on concussion is a serious problem in these sports. My 17 year old son plays rugby and it’s a massive concern at times. 

https://youtu.be/Qe27S4_J89A

PemburyAddick

_MrDick said:

I used to play rugby and I’ve taken some bangs to the head (not anywhere near as bad as Steve Thompson et al). But I’m now 63 and I’m having trouble remembering names and stuff. I recognise faces but I can’t remember names. Is that just an age thing or early onset dementia.. who knows 

You might want to get a referral from your GP to the "memory clinic". I didn't know they existed until a tip off from a work colleague. It took seven months to get my Mum (94) an appointment at the Clinic in Bow Arrow Lane Dartford. They did a two hour assessment and diagnosed while you waited, and provided a prescription. What surprised me is that there are plenty of drugs that can mitigate the symptoms. I got the distinct impression that they are happy to see people of all ages, and that the earlier you get diagnosed the better. Whatever you decide to do I hope it goes well for you.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Really good documentary. Devastating to be diagnosed at 42 with four young kids.

Very worrying for rugby players given the numerous traumas to the brain. Concussion is simply not taken seriously.

The rugby authorities need to act asap.

RickAddick

robinofottershaw said:

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many are still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

Being active in the media didn't stop Alan Shearer from raising the issue very publicly. 

robinofottershaw

RickAddick said:

robinofottershaw said:

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many are still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

Being active in the media didn't stop Alan Shearer from raising the issue very publicly. 

Yes, exactly the comparison I made to my wife when we were watching this documentary last night.

killerandflash

RickAddick said:

robinofottershaw said:

Given American football has conceded the linkage between their sport and impact on players health in this area it is simply a matter of time before the rugby union has to do so. But it looks like they will fight a rear guard action and it will be a slow process. 

What struck me about the Steve Thompson documentary was that no real high profile people from the sport are seemingly lending their support to this cause. I don’t know if any of the following have been active in this area but what about the likes of individuals such as Sir Cive Woodward, Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Ian McGeechan, Brian O’Driscoll, Keith Wood, Alan Wyn Jones etc etc. I guess part of the problem is that many are still active in the sport either directly or tangentially via TV and other media.

Being active in the media didn't stop Alan Shearer from raising the issue very publicly. 

A slight difference is that Thompson and others are taking legal action against the RFU, which could cost them a fortune.

T

There are a lot of high profile players involved in the campaign the difference is as you say they're not actually high profile in the wider media spectrum.  World rugby in the early onset of professionalism was totally negligent in process and protocols, efforts have atleast been made towards improving this although are still woefully short. The fact players and some clubs are leading this rather than the global body is still pretty disgraceful. 

They've also diagnosed a link between Rugby players and MND this week, while further research is required its worth noting former England player Ed Slater, a big Charlton fan, retired as Gloucester skipper this season after his diagnosis. 

As a parent it does make me worry about my 9 year old playing Rugby on a Sunday although he plays in goal in football on saturdays so is clearly just destined to be booted in the head...

Mendonca In Asdas

My son got kicked in the head at 13 whilst playing Rugby at school.

We got the phone call to come and get him , and ended up taking him to A&E because he had concussion, his brain was in a loop , he couldn't remember what had happened and kept repeating the same stuff again and again, and couldn't say anything different ,  it was terrifying , and he even had one of those protection hats ( we didn't have them when i was a kid) needless to say scared the life out of me , and put me right off the sport , i don't think he played again, i think the last few years are the tip of the iceberg, what with well known players coming forward and highlighting it.

hoof_it_up_to_benty

Mendonca In Asdas said:

My son got kicked in the head at 13 whilst playing Rugby at school.

We got the phone call to come and get him , and ended up taking him to A&E because he had concussion, his brain was in a loop , he couldn't remember what had happened and kept repeating the same stuff again and again, and couldn't say anything different ,  it was terrifying , and he even had one of those protection hats ( we didn't have them when i was a kid) needless to say scared the life out of me , and put me right off the sport , i don't think he played again, i think the last few years are the tip of the iceberg, what with well known players coming forward and highlighting it.

The most frightening thing is how young some of the players being diagnosed are.

Carter

The danger has been creeping up with rugby, I played loads growing up from the early nineties so this was when front rows were big fat fuckers and all the backs were whippets. I learned a few things early on, one was no matter what, you stick up for yourself and your team mates even if that means taking a bit of a pasting off the opponents number 6 or 7 but not backing down. It was actually applauded once when me and a boy/young man who played for new ash green went at it like a pair of ice hockey players, both of us had a hold of the others jersey with our left hands and landed, and I'm not exaggerating here, about 15 hefty right hooks on each other. Both sent off and whilst we were not best mates walking off we shook hands and had a laugh about it afterwards. BUT the referee, the parents watching fucking loved it, as did his teammates and mine. It was a big part of the game and in honesty it still is now at levels below the premiership. 

As a flanker I wasn't taking the hits or car crash like tackles some of the other forwards were apart from a few notable occasions when someone bigger and quicker into the tackle than me hit me, however head injuries frightened me a bit, I saw a guy at a home game go in low on one of our players and took an absolute sickener of a knee to the melon and he was in a really bad way, staggered around, speaking absolute gibberish before violently puking and collapsing. Not only did it make me feel sick the act of his head connecting with our hookers knee but the behaviour afterwards, how he was awake and conscious but not there at all in spirit. We found out months later he had had to stop playing because of that injury. 

In training our coaches were fairly sensible and were weren't all smashing into each other like I've seen teams like South Africa do in training camps. 

So, I'm going the lo g way about this. Steve Thompson played at a weird time for a guy like him, he played when forwards were big, heavy and slow and when backs were small and fast, that era then became the one we see now, where wingers are built like cruiserweight boxers and can seriously move, then you have forwards who are 120-150 plus kilos of solid muscle. When players take hits now it will legitimately feel like being T Boned by an articulated truck and careers are being shortened because of the intensity of the game. He would have also been going very hard in training, head down, smash into the blocking pads. With men the size of Martin Johnson, Andrew Sheridan, Joe Worsley, Danny Grewcock who are not only enormous but with a mentality of going at everything harder and more powerful than the next man. 

I'm surprised there are not more Steve Thomson tales coming out of rugby union to be honest and I agree with all saying the RFU are not being the leading lights they should be on the matter. They have tried to sort some of the more horrible neck and back trauma injuries with how they do the scrums now and what is penalised but the big hits will continues as people fuckong love watching them not to mention two 20 stone men powering into one another is generally going to hurt and even if they collide chest to chest the brain takes a remarkable amount of trauma 

MuttleyCAFC

I played Rugby in PE and actually scored a try the first time I played and some fat bastard jumbed on me which was very painful. Not on my head but when we did play again, not very often, I avoided trying. In those days you didn't get ant protection from the teachers and our PE teacher was a sadist bastard. Fortunately, I was good at football and played that most of the time whereas others looped through an activity every 4 weeks. Swimming, hockey etc...

In football, heading was a strenfth of my game but I don't recall any discomfort when heading in the opponents area. Where I remember issues were clearances out of defence and clashing heads. I recall an incident, accidental clash of heads, where I think I may have lost conciousness, I'm not sure, but my left eye swelled and closed up pretty quickly and I carried on playing with a wet sponge in my hand. I hope people know enough not to be so stupid today.

Covered End

_MrDick said:

I used to play rugby and I’ve taken some bangs to the head (not anywhere near as bad as Steve Thompson et al). But I’m now 63 and I’m having trouble remembering names and stuff. I recognise faces but I can’t remember names. Is that just an age thing or early onset dementia.. who knows 

I've always struggled to remember names.
I don't think it's an age/dementia things, unless it's your family or close friends.

Athletico Charlton

My lad is 9 and plays footy all the time and for a team.  He is a fearless lad and loves the physical side of the game which he typically always dominates.  I have tried to talk him out of heading the ball and at the start of this season was so happy the Tandridge league bought in a new "no heading" rule for all U12s.  They then reversed it two weeks later to only U7s so he is back to heading and I wince every time.

I have to choose a secondary school in a year's time and am in the catchment of two. One is football, the other is rugby. I have a big leaning to football as I simply don't want him going anywhere near rugby.