It's crazy but potential travellers from Ebbsfleet can simply catch a Javelin into St Pancras and come out again. I doubt that many passengers are actually completely put off using Eurostar!
Big presumptious comment. Don't forget Ashford too. Quite some costs to add, let alone time.
I get the impression @stevexreeve has never used Ebbsfleet. Possibly he does not even live in the catchment area.
My family does, of course. Ebbsfleet is 15 easy minutes drive from my sister's gaff in Eltham.Then you stroll in, e-ticket, passport scan, bag through security, max 5 minutes minimum queue. Quick coffee in a lounge with plenty of seats for all, then the call to the platform That's why I used it, instead of flying.
Steve is suggesting that instead I go down to Ebbsfleet, to catch a Javelin to go backwards for 20 minutes, then another five minutes to even get to the Eurostar area then to join a long and stressful checkin process which was at least half an hour before the pandemic, and then pretty much 90 minutes later look out of the window to see us passing Ebbsfleet? Come off it Steve, in the real world no one is going to make that choice. Even less so now that they can take Crossrail direct to Heathrow....
That said, to be fair to Steve, we are broadly on the same page, especially the final para. We are in this situation because Cameron's mob sold off the UK gov's share in Eurostar to the French, and for reasons I can't recall or track, the Tunnel owner, Getlink is also a French private company, and there are mutterings that it conspires with Eurostar to invent reason why the likes of DB can't run their ICE's to London on "safety grounds".
So going back to Damas, the Eurostar CEO, it's quite possible that not serving these stations suits him (he's stepped down actually), but if he has told a porky about the Border Force to Parliament, we can have Eurostar's arse for that. And if it's true, then that implies the Border Force are effectively refusing to do their job. Which is another matter for Parliament.
Incidentally does anyone want to guess what % of Eurostar passengers are UK residents? (Damas reveals it in his letter so no cheating - I was quite surprised by the figure)
It's crazy but potential travellers from Ebbsfleet can simply catch a Javelin into St Pancras and come out again. I doubt that many passengers are actually completely put off using Eurostar!
Big presumptious comment. Don't forget Ashford too. Quite some costs to add, let alone time.
I get the impression @stevexreeve has never used Ebbsfleet. Possibly he does not even live in the catchment area.
My family does, of course. Ebbsfleet is 15 easy minutes drive from my sister's gaff in Eltham.Then you stroll in, e-ticket, passport scan, bag through security, max 5 minutes minimum queue. Quick coffee in a lounge with plenty of seats for all, then the call to the platform That's why I used it, instead of flying.
Steve is suggesting that instead I go down to Ebbsfleet, to catch a Javelin to go backwards for 20 minutes, then another five minutes to even get to the Eurostar area then to join a long and stressful checkin process which was at least half an hour before the pandemic, and then pretty much 90 minutes later look out of the window to see us passing Ebbsfleet? Come off it Steve, in the real world no one is going to make that choice. Even less so now that they can take Crossrail direct to Heathrow....
That said, to be fair to Steve, we are broadly on the same page, especially the final para. We are in this situation because Cameron's mob sold off the UK gov's share in Eurostar to the French, and for reasons I can't recall or track, the Tunnel owner, Getlink is also a French private company, and there are mutterings that it conspires with Eurostar to invent reason why the likes of DB can't run their ICE's to London on "safety grounds".
So going back to Damas, the Eurostar CEO, it's quite possible that not serving these stations suits him (he's stepped down actually), but if he has told a porky about the Border Force to Parliament, we can have Eurostar's arse for that. And if it's true, then that implies the Border Force are effectively refusing to do their job. Which is another matter for Parliament.
Incidentally does anyone want to guess what % of Eurostar passengers are UK residents? (Damas reveals it in his letter so no cheating - I was quite surprised by the figure)
Sorry! I really didn't mean that potential travellers would genuinely want to travel to St. Pancras. (I wish I hadn't included that sentence in my post!).
But I suspect that Eurostar regard these potential passengers the same way as they do anyone else living outside London.
I live just south of Guildford and, before Covid, the 40-mile trip into London (including the tube) + Eurostar was still far more pleasant than going to Gatwick. But this year, I have found the process of flying much less stressful. My family would certainly now choose flying over the train - EVEN IF IT COSTS MORE AND TAKES LONGER.
This is a ridiculous state of affairs when the world is trying to discourage unnecessary flights!
Ebbsfleet might make an excellent departure point for budget fares from "London".
This would work the other way round! People could jump on a Javelin at St Pancras and then pass through security in comfort at Ebbsfleet rather than face the mess in the dungeons of St. Pancras!
Maybe reserve St. Pancras for first class and "full fare" customers and expand Ebbsfleet (where there seems to be plenty of room?) as the main check-in for everyone else who just wants a cheap seat.
But this sort of solution would require support and commitment and strategic thinking from a British government! Something we haven't seen for a long long time!
I live in Deal so would love to see Ashford reopen as well as Ebbsfleet. However, I can't see it ever happening. If they reopened for international traffic then surely we would need Border Force and French passport controls at both. I can't see either government agreeing to that.
I live in Deal so would love to see Ashford reopen as well as Ebbsfleet. However, I can't see it ever happening. If they reopened for international traffic then surely we would need Border Force and French passport controls at both. I can't see either government agreeing to that.
It was always there before at Ashford and Ebbsfleet.
Even when trains were timetabled to stop at those stations, there were relatively few trains that did. There'll be good reason for that.
As an ex-railwayman myself, I'd bet that this is purely a Eurostar resources, operations and economy issue.
I live in Deal so would love to see Ashford reopen as well as Ebbsfleet. However, I can't see it ever happening. If they reopened for international traffic then surely we would need Border Force and French passport controls at both. I can't see either government agreeing to that.
Well as @Oggy Red says below, it’s no big deal, just return of status quo. It’s part of my case. At Ebbsfleet I never saw more than two Border Force and one French guy on duty at any one time. And at two oclock they knock off. The big BF work is people/stuff coming in, and thats all handled by UK staff on the Continent. And as we now know, the Home Office now thinks the passport scanners are reliable enough to be put in the hands of private contractors.
Finally got to run this past my buddy who is retired from the Heathrow border team. He said that on first hearing the Eurostar claims sounded a bit dodgy and he’s going to ask around his gang of border force veterans. Of course there is such a gang
As someone who travels for family reasons to France on Eurostar a couple of times a year, in my experience the Border Force work at St Pancras is only routine with random spot checks, more usually on incoming passengers returning to St Pancras.
The Border Force checks are pretty stringent when I'm homebound at Paris Gare du Nord, in France - that's where the principle checks are made, before passengers board the Eurostar train to the UK.
Can you or anyone clarify.. the “e-gates” at St. P. , do they read your ticket only as was the case at Ebbsfleet? Or are there also e-gates for reading passports like at airports? If yes, and then there are UK staff checking passports as well, thats pretty over the top IMO, what would be the point?
Can you or anyone clarify.. the “e-gates” at St. P. , do they read your ticket only as was the case at Ebbsfleet? Or are there also e-gates for reading passports like at airports? If yes, and then there are UK staff checking passports as well, thats pretty over the top IMO, what would be the point?
E gates were passport I believe, but assuming you use then no need to see a human.
Comments
My family does, of course. Ebbsfleet is 15 easy minutes drive from my sister's gaff in Eltham.Then you stroll in, e-ticket, passport scan, bag through security, max 5 minutes minimum queue. Quick coffee in a lounge with plenty of seats for all, then the call to the platform That's why I used it, instead of flying.
Steve is suggesting that instead I go down to Ebbsfleet, to catch a Javelin to go backwards for 20 minutes, then another five minutes to even get to the Eurostar area then to join a long and stressful checkin process which was at least half an hour before the pandemic, and then pretty much 90 minutes later look out of the window to see us passing Ebbsfleet? Come off it Steve, in the real world no one is going to make that choice. Even less so now that they can take Crossrail direct to Heathrow....
That said, to be fair to Steve, we are broadly on the same page, especially the final para. We are in this situation because Cameron's mob sold off the UK gov's share in Eurostar to the French, and for reasons I can't recall or track, the Tunnel owner, Getlink is also a French private company, and there are mutterings that it conspires with Eurostar to invent reason why the likes of DB can't run their ICE's to London on "safety grounds".
So going back to Damas, the Eurostar CEO, it's quite possible that not serving these stations suits him (he's stepped down actually), but if he has told a porky about the Border Force to Parliament, we can have Eurostar's arse for that. And if it's true, then that implies the Border Force are effectively refusing to do their job. Which is another matter for Parliament.
Incidentally does anyone want to guess what % of Eurostar passengers are UK residents? (Damas reveals it in his letter so no cheating - I was quite surprised by the figure)
But I suspect that Eurostar regard these potential passengers the same way as they do anyone else living outside London.
I live just south of Guildford and, before Covid, the 40-mile trip into London (including the tube) + Eurostar was still far more pleasant than going to Gatwick. But this year, I have found the process of flying much less stressful. My family would certainly now choose flying over the train - EVEN IF IT COSTS MORE AND TAKES LONGER.
This is a ridiculous state of affairs when the world is trying to discourage unnecessary flights!
This would work the other way round! People could jump on a Javelin at St Pancras and then pass through security in comfort at Ebbsfleet rather than face the mess in the dungeons of St. Pancras!
Maybe reserve St. Pancras for first class and "full fare" customers and expand Ebbsfleet (where there seems to be plenty of room?) as the main check-in for everyone else who just wants a cheap seat.
But this sort of solution would require support and commitment and strategic thinking from a British government! Something we haven't seen for a long long time!
If they reopened for international traffic then surely we would need Border Force and French passport controls at both.
I can't see either government agreeing to that.
Even when trains were timetabled to stop at those stations, there were relatively few trains that did.
There'll be good reason for that.
As an ex-railwayman myself, I'd bet that this is purely a Eurostar resources, operations and economy issue.
The Border Force checks are pretty stringent when I'm homebound at Paris Gare du Nord, in France - that's where the principle checks are made, before passengers board the Eurostar train to the UK.
Staff at Baggage check worked for Mitie and also the first passport scan as well as the guy at the E Gates.
After that French police double check passport.
No UK Border force (uniformed).
P. , do they read your ticket only as was the case at Ebbsfleet? Or are there also e-gates for reading passports like at airports? If yes, and then there are UK staff checking passports as well, thats pretty over the top IMO, what would be the point?