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Dean Holden - Jan 2025: joined the coaching staff at Adana Demispor in Turkey (p47)
Comments
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Manager + tools provided ordinarily = fair assessment and finishing standing. I think the tools provided bit has totally and royally fcuked up any of our previous managers chances regardless of their capabilities.I am convinced Garner would have been more successful if he had been provided sufficient funds and a balance in his squad to play the style of football the owners knew we would be getting.So far Holden is getting a tune out of the limited squad we have, so credit to him!6
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Agreed but let us have the opinion of our friend @MillwallFanAddick_8 said:
Harris having a blinder at Gillingham isn’t he?ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Harris is well respected there.3 -
He is in temperament a northern bowyer and without major funding (now and in bowyers time as opposed to powells at least initially) that is all we have to get the best out of what you have. He may be fortunate in being with certain players who are hitting their best form, but he may be a reason behind that as well.Like with many things, he may have joined at the right time, but who cares?0
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Mark Warburton.
Darren Ferguson only on a contract till the end of the season.
Nathan Jones should be targeted as he will be on dodgy ground if Southampton drop.1 -
Yes because those three are definitely not to laugh in the face of anyone trying to get them go join a struggling club run by an idiot with no clue about what money is available, or for that matter whether there IS any money.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
If you have any serious expectations of anyone near that level joining us right now then you have got to reevaluate the situation.0 -
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.3 -
It helps that his hiring has coincided with the return to fitness of Leaburn and CBT.thenewbie said:
He's not reinventing the wheel or doing anything revolutionary but seems like he's got the players behind him and that's all he needs to do right now.Callumcafc said:Four games in: two wins, a draw and an away loss.
I've no doubt if those 2 had been fit all season we'd be a lot better off and chasing the play offs.1 -
ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
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No he wouldn'tElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy would have been a good appointment.Cafc43v3r said:
I would have been very sceptical about anyone Thomas appointed on his own. Holden wouldn't have been my choice, that's probably a good thing because I would have given it to Mick Mccarthy!thenewbie said:
But is anyone actually more suited? An experienced manager would know that going back to basics and getting the team spirit back... which is what he's doing anyway.ElfsborgAddick said:
This is fair enough but there MUST be somebody out there more suited.thenewbie said:
It's not that simple though is it. A properly proven manager with experience and a good record is never going to take a short term contract at a basket case of a club like this. They don't need to, the risk vs reward is not worth it.ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
And until we know if someone, anyone, is actually going to complete a takeover, let alone who that someone is and their relative wealth and experience, no one will be offering the kind of money to tempt a proven name manager in.
Fifty games on a CV when we were 3 or four points off the bottom four is not good enough.
There cannot be any Charlton fan who was happy when they found out Holden was coming in.
I was not very impressed at the time and he's far from proven but I genuinely don't think that in our current situation there's any (realistic) options that would have done any better.
Although some people won't ever be happy if it's not someone from the past, someone who "knows the club".2 -
Nathan Jones? Really???????
maybe we should tap up the Brentford and palace managers?We were 17th in league 1 when Holden was appointed. I don't think we could have got much better0 -
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If Holden continues to do well there's no doubt he'll be rewarded with a contract.1
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Warnock has retired about ten times.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.0 -
And only come out of it for high paying jobs... Not here.ElfsborgAddick said:
Warnock has retired about ten times.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
You have to be reasonable and think about who we are now. We are not an attractive proposition anymore to managers.1 -
True but he wasn't in his mid-70s then. Plus at his age you'd think he'd only do it for a short term high paying job (say 3-4 months to try and save a PL club).ElfsborgAddick said:
Warnock has retired about ten times.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
He's certainly not taking a league one job on what we'd pay.0 -
Agreed, but Jones went back to Luton.Dazzler21 said:
And only come out of it for high paying jobs... Not here.ElfsborgAddick said:
Warnock has retired about ten times.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Millwall, Palace, Millwall. No thanks.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.
Warnock is also 74 and has retired from management.
You have to be reasonable and think about who we are now. We are not an attractive proposition anymore to managers.
Warburton I believe made his money in the city before getting into football. Lampard and Gerrard would have taken a hit when coming out of playing. Although not for one moment am I thinking of them.
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Like Riga you mean.Dazzler21 said:If Holden continues to do well there's no doubt he'll be rewarded with a contract.0 -
Warnock I’ll give you, but no chance of that. Of other two. One is yesterdays man and the other is pony.ElfsborgAddick said:
McCarthy, Warnock and Harris for starters.ShootersHillGuru said:
Any names ?ElfsborgAddick said:
Holden will almost certainly not be here in 12 months time.Cafc43v3r said:
What was Bowyer's managerial history? Or Powell's, or Curbs'...ElfsborgAddick said:
Rubbish.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
There aren't loads of good managers out there - we've struggled to find them.ElfsborgAddick said:The guy was offered the job, of course he is going to take it, he'll have faith in his own ability, even Mr Fraeye did.
My concern is with who appointed him, as long as the sale goes through, our new owners.
Nobody will tell me otherwise, putting it mildly, there are a lot more people more qualified and experienced.
He deserves a chance.
Look at his managerial history.
We should have brought somebody in with experience, without a doubt.3 -
No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.12
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I liked Garners ethos but without the right players, certainly better than what we’ve got, it was always doomed to failure, especially without compromise. He lacked flexibility in his approach to make things work. I think Holden is a pragmatist. Seems to have the authority to manage and has already made big decisions. With our squad I think horses for courses is the only way forward.JohnnyH2 said:No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.1 -
Decent article about Dean Holden on The Athletic today7
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Holden played most of his career in the lower leagues. He knows what it's about. Garners experience was from training manuals, courses, and coaching, not managing. he didn't have a plan b and didn't stop non footballing centre backs from trying to play football. Holden seems to have gone back to basics. I'm favouring Holden over garner at this stage but Holden hasn't had enough time yet for an equal comparison to be made.1
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Garner's ethos was to try and pass neeedlsey and remained possession at all costs. So not needed at this level particularly with the layers we have.ShootersHillGuru said:
I liked Garners ethos but without the right players, certainly better than what we’ve got, it was always doomed to failure, especially without compromise. He lacked flexibility in his approach to make things work. I think Holden is a pragmatist. Seems to have the authority to manage and has already made big decisions. With our squad I think horses for courses is the only way forward.JohnnyH2 said:No idea if Holden is the right choice long term as I know very little about him, but based on the 4 games so.far he has more of an idea what to do in this league with this group of players than Garner did.
3 jobs now in Management, 2 of them with poor winning statistics1 -
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I wouldn't write Garner off in quite such a cavalier manner as some of you are. When we were good under him, we were very good. Perhaps he didn't quite tailor it to our players, but he did hit on a 4-4-2 with Leaburn, Fraser/Dobbo and Inniss/EOC as the spine, only for injuries to rob him of it6
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Desperate for him to succeed having read the Athletic article. Seems like a good bloke first and foremost.5
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I think Garner has a higher ceiling than League one. At the right club at right time with time and money given by an astute chairman he can probably build himself up into a very good manager indeed.Leuth said:I wouldn't write Garner off in quite such a cavalier manner as some of you are. When we were good under him, we were very good. Perhaps he didn't quite tailor it to our players, but he did hit on a 4-4-2 with Leaburn, Fraser/Dobbo and Inniss/EOC as the spine, only for injuries to rob him of it
However, I'm not sure that this was the right club and it certainly was NOT the right time. Sandgaard lacks the patience, knowledge and quite likely the funds to have a progressive coach build over a period of years. If Garner had had proper backing like Powell's promotion season I've no doubt we'd be in a better place with a better squad, but that's not what happened.1 -
I like to listen to Dean Holden but I wish he would stop doing his interviews on a skateboard; a bit of Northern bluntness is fine plus after the disaster of playing Thomas as the LCB and the right footed Chin as the left Wing back against Oxford when Robinson couldn't believe his luck, Deano has learnt quick and players appear to be finding their best positions ( yes I know Sess is filling in as a LB but he doing ok) I just wish Steven Sessegnon could play more matches in a row.
You need luck as a manager as well as nous and I don't want any more changes for now with coaches but as we know football is political and owners have their go to Coaches and Managers who net work well and have good agents. Chaos continues to reign at Cafc as we are the football soap opera with crazy storylines.
9,400 midweek in Manchester hopefully indicates we have potential to be a championship backed team if we had a modicum of success but we will need to have a stronger 18 by Feb 1st not weaker.
I'm just not convinced as I'm still working out Andy Scott's remit with Thomas Sandgaard?
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Wasn't exactly keen on him before now, but that's how I feel after reading the article and seeing him in charge for a few games. Hope it goes wellLegacyFan said:Desperate for him to succeed having read the Athletic article. Seems like a good bloke first and foremost.5 -
I think it's very hard to compare them under the circumstances.Todds_right_hook said:Holden played most of his career in the lower leagues. He knows what it's about. Garners experience was from training manuals, courses, and coaching, not managing. he didn't have a plan b and didn't stop non footballing centre backs from trying to play football. Holden seems to have gone back to basics. I'm favouring Holden over garner at this stage but Holden hasn't had enough time yet for an equal comparison to be made.
Holden has come in and had to play the hand he was delt. You could argue that Ganer could have played his hand better but also he didn't get the hand I thought he was getting.
Holden knows its a short term gig and can't spend time worrying about football philosophy even developing players for next season, yet.
I think we saw the change in Adkins, and maybe in hindsight Bowyer, when the goal posts were moved, promises broken and noses stuck in. Maybe even Jackson when the job changed from short term to medium term as the expectations change.0 -
Didn't know about his background but this article is interesting.8
