One of the most useless mornings I have ever seen from England in a test. Utterly utterly awful performance since we started swinging the bat at anything short.
Day 2 at Headingley, last time Australia came over. England 67 all out in 27.5 overs. Day 1 at Auckland, 2018. England 58 all out in 20.4 overs. Day 1 at Lord's, 2019. England 85 all out in 23.4 overs.
Sometimes, horrible collapses fade from the memory, but each of these innings was, in its own way, much worse than today's 325. And, it's worth remembering that we won two and drew the other one of the three matches above.
Yeah but Bazball...
So all those capitulations were in perfect batting conditions were they? Like yesterday?
You mean yesterday when we scored 278 for 4? What a capitulation.
That New Zealand match they scored over 400 in the 2nd innings so is suspect it wasn't a minefield.
The wickets in themselves were each an abject capitulation. All of them were avoidable. That's without Brook being dropped too. Why did Stokes decide not to play Bazball when he came in? 17 off 58 balls (29.31 RR) isn't Bazball is it? Could it be that it suddenly dawned on him that the brand of cricket we had been playing was reckless?
But ignore me and listen to the likes of Atherton, Hussain, KP, Ponting etc etc what they thought of the way we played. How Ponting, one of the best pullers that there has ever been who would pull from a yard outside off stump rather than cut the ball, explained that it should be as easy to play as playing a forward defensive. But only to balls that are the right length, pace and width to do so. We did it regardless of that.
Your purposefully missing the point I am making. I am listening to what they are saying because I am watching it. Your listening to what you think I am saying rather than reading what I am actually saying.
I agree with you and Chizz and how we have been awful in the past and got beaten up by the Aussies at times when being timid. For balance we did win 1 in 17 until Brendon McCallum and Ben Stokes decided to put entertainment first and always go on the attack, even if you end up losing.
But if you had listened to two Ashes winning captains at lunchtime: Cook and Vaughan, about how this all out attack can look 'casual' (Vaughan) and that when on top, stay on top, and most importantly, recognized when you are on top (cook)
If you want to criticize their comments then feel free.
Baz ball needs to be honed, not go back to a team of Boycott's. (Soapboxsam)
I listened to 3 England Captains on sky say exactly the same thing, and it is not something I have contradicted, is it?
Anyone see this? All a bit bizarre, why either of them decided to go on TV to rehash an argument from 40 years ago and both look pretty sad and petty, I'm not sure.
You don't like each other, happens all the time, just avoid each other or be civil but not friendly, not hard.
australia win the morning, and with that, possibly the ashes.
I'd say this afternoon is going to be key, we haven't lost it but its definitely going away from us. If we can have a great bowling innings to give us a reasonable target then its still possible.
Personally still think we will lose, but still live in hope its not done just yet and if our bowlers turn up to the party you never know.
I don't see anybody say we should go back to playing in a timid way which I'm sure we all agree would have led to a meek series defeat.
What people are saying is it looks like we've thrown the Ashes away through the media playing up this 'Bazball' nonsense with McCullum/Stokes believing in their own hype and making a ridiculous declaration in the first innings at Edgbaston, then Root brainlessly giving away his wicket in the second innings and 'Bazball' being unable to cope with some good old-fashioned short-pitched test bowling here.
Anyone see this? All a bit bizarre, why either of them decided to go on TV to rehash an argument from 40 years ago and both look pretty sad and petty, I'm not sure.
You don't like each other, happens all the time, just avoid each other or be civil but not friendly, not hard.
Anyone see this? All a bit bizarre, why either of them decided to go on TV to rehash an argument from 40 years ago and both look pretty sad and petty, I'm not sure.
You don't like each other, happens all the time, just avoid each other or be civil but not friendly, not hard.
It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests! But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
Spot on.
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…
That really isn't so. You can play positive cricket without being reckless. Our batsman all have the ability to recognise what a ball that can be pulled safely and one that can't. They chose to go for everything. As it happens Ponting is doing a master class on doing so right now on Sky.
Is that not a bit of an assumption? The only one who I’d say definitely capable of that, against this Australian attack, is Root.
Australia have better batsmen (#1, #2, #3 in the world), they have bowlers who aren’t past their prime and they’re better in the field. We all hoped the Bazball bravado could bring us up to, and past, their level but in reality, the expected result is what is being played out.
I cannot blame England for believing their own hype. The cricket so far has been exciting, and winning games at the same time. Why wouldn’t they try to take that same approach into this series?
It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests! But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
Spot on.
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…
That really isn't so. You can play positive cricket without being reckless. Our batsman all have the ability to recognise what a ball that can be pulled safely and one that can't. They chose to go for everything. As it happens Ponting is doing a master class on doing so right now on Sky.
Is that not a bit of an assumption? The only one who I’d say definitely capable of that, against this Australian attack, is Root.
Australia have better batsmen (#1, #2, #3 in the world), they have bowlers who aren’t past their prime and they’re better in the field. We all hoped the Bazball bravado could bring us up to, and past, their level but in reality, the expected result is what is being played out.
I cannot blame England for believing their own hype. The cricket so far has been exciting, and winning games at the same time. Why wouldn’t they try to take that same approach into this series?
It isn't an assumption. All players at that level know what shot they can play to a ball safely and can't. From County Age Group level they are all taught to get into a position to pull it but if isn't there to do then to either duck or sway (it's impossible to do it the other way round i.e. look to leave and then try to pull it). The problem our batsmen have is that they ignore the second bit because they are always trying to score off that ball regardless of length, width, pace and field. In doing so, they are trying to make the shot fit the ball and it is the ignoring of that second option, not the inability to make that decision, that gets them in trouble.
It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests! But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
Spot on.
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…
That really isn't so. You can play positive cricket without being reckless. Our batsman all have the ability to recognise what a ball that can be pulled safely and one that can't. They chose to go for everything. As it happens Ponting is doing a master class on doing so right now on Sky.
Is that not a bit of an assumption? The only one who I’d say definitely capable of that, against this Australian attack, is Root.
Australia have better batsmen (#1, #2, #3 in the world), they have bowlers who aren’t past their prime and they’re better in the field. We all hoped the Bazball bravado could bring us up to, and past, their level but in reality, the expected result is what is being played out.
I cannot blame England for believing their own hype. The cricket so far has been exciting, and winning games at the same time. Why wouldn’t they try to take that same approach into this series?
It isn't an assumption. All players at that level know what shot they can play to a ball safely and can't. From County Age Group level they are all taught to get into a position to pull it but if isn't there to do then to either duck or sway (it's impossible to do it the other way round i.e. look to leave and then try to pull it). The problem our batsmen have is that they ignore the second bit because they are always trying to score off that ball regardless of length, width, pace and field. In doing so, they are trying to make the shot fit the ball and it is the ignoring of that second option, not the inability to make that decision, that gets them in trouble.
It's been spoken about how this era has given us a bit of bite from where we were a year ago. But they are doing it by ultimately playing the shorter forms of the game in tests! But when you come up against the likes of Australia it starts to look very suspect. I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that Root aside, this country cannot produce test batsmen anymore. And for that reason, McCullum has came in and just said play the way you're good at. It's literally all we've got!
Spot on.
The tactic is forced by the quality of the options available for selection.
Yes this is looking increasingly likely that this isn’t enough to beat the Aussies. But the alternative is throwing Hameed et al back out there and scoring 150s in the first innings…
That really isn't so. You can play positive cricket without being reckless. Our batsman all have the ability to recognise what a ball that can be pulled safely and one that can't. They chose to go for everything. As it happens Ponting is doing a master class on doing so right now on Sky.
Is that not a bit of an assumption? The only one who I’d say definitely capable of that, against this Australian attack, is Root.
Australia have better batsmen (#1, #2, #3 in the world), they have bowlers who aren’t past their prime and they’re better in the field. We all hoped the Bazball bravado could bring us up to, and past, their level but in reality, the expected result is what is being played out.
I cannot blame England for believing their own hype. The cricket so far has been exciting, and winning games at the same time. Why wouldn’t they try to take that same approach into this series?
It isn't an assumption. All players at that level know what shot they can play to a ball safely and can't. From County Age Group level they are all taught to get into a position to pull it but if isn't there to do then to either duck or sway (it's impossible to do it the other way round i.e. look to leave and then try to pull it). The problem our batsmen have is that they ignore the second bit because they are always trying to score off that ball regardless of length, width, pace and field. In doing so, they are trying to make the shot fit the ball and it is the ignoring of that second option, not the inability to make that decision, that gets them in trouble.
Ok you know best.
I really do not know if you are being sarcastic or not but my son learnt how to do so doing just that so that is how I know. At Kent first and then at the Darren Lehmann cricket Academy where he was coached by Greg Blewett facing tennis balls from a bowling machine at 90mph off 16 yards. It wasn't just about playing the shot. It was about the decision making too.
And as usual the troll that is @chizz LOLs it. As I've said before he loves to target certain people by doing so and then pleads his innocence for being accused of being a wind up merchant. In fact, I have to thank him for continuing to bridge the gap between my "Likes" and "LOLs". I bet he even thinks he's being subtle and clever doing so.
Reckon they're on for a monster score here. I know Lords isn't the bounciest but it is such a flat atmosphere. I'm listening to the commentators on TMS and they all sound so flat. That England first innings really was the pin that popped the balloon.
England actually been pretty unlucky with the ball here.
They have to a degree and on another day the Aussies could have been a couple down. But then we haven't had to bat in these conditions in this Test when they have had to in both innings. When we did in the last Test we lost both Duckett and Crawley.
Reckon they're on for a monster score here. I know Lords isn't the bounciest but it is such a flat atmosphere. I'm listening to the commentators on TMS and they all sound so flat. That England first innings really was the pin that popped the balloon.
Flat atmosphere. England slightly unlucky, but the Aussies are hanging in there and not giving it away.
The team playing hard pragmatic test cricket will tend to get away with it.
When in a test match a side takes away the slips and have men back for the badly time hook, then you don't want your side to take the bait every time and end up in the net; or back in the pavilion. We got lucky once when Root took the bait but fortunately he was thrown back in. Didn't really help for long ☹️
Comments
You don't like each other, happens all the time, just avoid each other or be civil but not friendly, not hard.
Personally still think we will lose, but still live in hope its not done just yet and if our bowlers turn up to the party you never know.
What people are saying is it looks like we've thrown the Ashes away through the media playing up this 'Bazball' nonsense with McCullum/Stokes believing in their own hype and making a ridiculous declaration in the first innings at Edgbaston, then Root brainlessly giving away his wicket in the second innings and 'Bazball' being unable to cope with some good old-fashioned short-pitched test bowling here.
They can only have done it for the money. Neither are the type to back down but whether the vitriol was to make it seem real is debatable.
Australia have better batsmen (#1, #2, #3 in the world), they have bowlers who aren’t past their prime and they’re better in the field. We all hoped the Bazball bravado could bring us up to, and past, their level but in reality, the expected result is what is being played out.
I cannot blame England for believing their own hype. The cricket so far has been exciting, and winning games at the same time. Why wouldn’t they try to take that same approach into this series?
Duckett,Root,Pope Brook and Stokes kindly handed them back yesterday
And as usual the troll that is @chizz LOLs it. As I've said before he loves to target certain people by doing so and then pleads his innocence for being accused of being a wind up merchant. In fact, I have to thank him for continuing to bridge the gap between my "Likes" and "LOLs". I bet he even thinks he's being subtle and clever doing so.
I know Lords isn't the bounciest but it is such a flat atmosphere. I'm listening to the commentators on TMS and they all sound so flat.
That England first innings really was the pin that popped the balloon.
The team playing hard pragmatic test cricket will tend to get away with it.
When in a test match a side takes away the slips and have men back for the badly time hook, then you don't want your side to take the bait every time and end up in the net; or back in the pavilion. We got lucky once when Root took the bait but fortunately he was thrown back in. Didn't really help for long ☹️