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Climate Action - Regional Football Leagues

MrWalkerMrWalker
in Other Football and Sports
The issue of football teams taking planes for Premier League matches is causing concerns in the news this week.
Surely it's the hundreds of thousands of travelling fans which is more damaging to the environment? 

What do Lifers think about regionalizing all football leagues in the same way we have National League North and South?

It would cut fan costs and carbon output.

Not regionalizing the FA Cup would then make it more attractive and boost some gates.

Comments

  • Pedro45Pedro45
    Here’s something that wasn’t in the latest report from the UN’s climate change agency that was released this week (Monday 20 March) and that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere in press - probably because it doesn’t fit with the established ‘narrative’.Average global temperatures have been declining since July 2014, according to UK Met Office data on global warming. The decline is very slight and it’s really just a statistical flat line, but it is definitely not up.How can this be? Did we not have record temperatures in Britain and across Europe last year? Haven’t the last eight years been the warmest on record? Wasn’t 2016 the hottest year ever? Well… Yes, to all that…And didn’t Monday’s IPCC AR6 Synthesis Report state that global surface temperatures have “increased faster since 1970 than in any other 50-year period over at least the last 2000 years”? Well yes, it did and that is true as well… But most of that warming was prior to 2000 and the fact remains that the current trend in global temperatures is down and not up. And that is the one crucial fact they missed out of their report – even in the section entitled “Current Status and Trends”.Now it would be easy to say that all global temperatures since the record-breaking year of 2016 have been cooler but that would risk being accused of data “cherry-picking”. A more scientifically valid approach is to ask the question: how far back can we go from January 2023 (the latest available data) and still see a downward trend in the data? And the answer, according to the Met Office HadCRUT5 global temperature dataset, is: July 2014.Ironically enough, 2014 was the year the IPCC published its previous major report – the AR5. So, between the publication of the IPCC’s previous report and its latest report, the trend in global temperatures has been, er, down.For context, we have to go back all the way to January 1988 to find a similar period of at least 102 months with any downward trend.Poignantly enough, Monday was also significant for another reason: the 20th anniversary of the second Gulf War, a war that was justified on faulty intelligence about non-existent weapons and pushed through with help from a dodgy dossier full of spin.Now, I’m not saying climate change is non-existent, but I am saying Monday’s document was full of spin. Sooner or later, someone will ask the IPCC and all its scientists why – if they are so confident of the case they are making – do they feel the need to resort to this kind of spin rather than just reporting the facts? You can find the Met Office HadCRUT5 data here: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut5/data/current/do... You can find all the IPCC reports here: https://www.ipcc.ch/assessment-report/ar6/
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    edited March 2023
    MrWalker said:
    So, that's a 'no' to regionalisation, then?
    I'm also a no to regionalisation, not from a climate change point of view, but because it would be a shit idea.

    To create regionalisation would mean the merging of leagues of different quality to deliver equity of teams across arbitrary regional allocations. 

    It would take years to rebalance, and the reduced geography of leagues would result in repetition of fixtures, irrespective of promotion and relegation.

    Also, the south West league would be really boring - Plymouth, Torquay, Yeovil and Exeter playing each other on a round robin basis for eternity.
  • MrWalkerMrWalker
    SporadicAddick said:
    MrWalker said:
    So, that's a 'no' to regionalisation, then?
    I'm also a no to regionalisation, not from a climate change point of view, but because it would be a shit idea.

    To create regionalisation would mean the merging of leagues of different quality to deliver equity of teams across arbitrary regional allocations. 

    It would take years to rebalance, and the reduced geography of leagues would result in repetition of fixtures, irrespective of promotion and relegation.

    Also, the south West league would be really boring - Plymouth, Torquay, Yeovil and Exeter playing each other on a round robin basis for eternity.
    Why?
  • BrentfordAddickBrentfordAddick
    Football fans get the blame for a lot of things and so now we're responsible for the effects of climate change? 
  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    BrentfordAddick said:
    Football fans get the blame for a lot of things and so now we're responsible for the effects of climate change? 
    Literally no one said that
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    MrWalker said:
    SporadicAddick said:
    MrWalker said:
    So, that's a 'no' to regionalisation, then?
    I'm also a no to regionalisation, not from a climate change point of view, but because it would be a shit idea.

    To create regionalisation would mean the merging of leagues of different quality to deliver equity of teams across arbitrary regional allocations. 

    It would take years to rebalance, and the reduced geography of leagues would result in repetition of fixtures, irrespective of promotion and relegation.

    Also, the south West league would be really boring - Plymouth, Torquay, Yeovil and Exeter playing each other on a round robin basis for eternity.
    Why?
    because it would be a shit idea.

    To create regionalisation would mean the merging of leagues of different quality to deliver equity of teams across arbitrary regional allocations. 

    It would take years to rebalance, and the reduced geography of leagues would result in repetition of fixtures, irrespective of promotion and relegation.

    Also, the south West league would be really boring - Plymouth, Torquay, Yeovil and Exeter playing each other on a round robin basis for eternity (this bit is a bit tongue in cheek)
  • eaststandmikeeaststandmike
    Regionalision is a no from me 
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    I've always thought it must be odd for midlands teams/teams on the divide between north and south, not knowing which half you'd end up with if you got relegated from the higher level "national league"
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  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    I don’t see why clubs can’t just get trains and a coach at the other end to games. 
  • se9addickse9addick
    We might get some local away matches if we did!

    Massive “no” from me though.
  • bobmunrobobmunro
    The Red Robin said:
    I don’t see why clubs can’t just get trains and a coach at the other end to games. 
    I would agree and outside the Prem most do rather than using planes.

    The OP though referenced the much bigger issue of fans’ travel.(not necessarily planes but car and train travel carbon footprint.
  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    edited March 2023
    bobmunro said:
    The Red Robin said:
    I don’t see why clubs can’t just get trains and a coach at the other end to games. 
    I would agree and outside the Prem most do rather than using planes.

    The OP though referenced the much bigger issue of fans’ travel.(not necessarily planes but car and train travel carbon footprint.
    Tend to agree as well, although train travel can be ridiculously expensive. Perhaps if there was some kind of EFL/FA or gov’t subsidy for weekend travel. Obviously it’s not always realistic either if you’re hoping to do Carlisle and back in a day. 
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    bobmunro said:
    The Red Robin said:
    I don’t see why clubs can’t just get trains and a coach at the other end to games. 
    I would agree and outside the Prem most do rather than using planes.

    The OP though referenced the much bigger issue of fans’ travel.(not necessarily planes but car and train travel carbon footprint.
    If its about fans travelling, then of course we could potentially minimise travel. But I think we are dancing on the head of a pin. Before that we'd probably be better off preventing people from going to work, visiting relatives, driving to the shops, socialising, all of which I'm sure have a bigger carbon footprint than a small percentage of fans of 92 football clubs travelling to an away game every other week. Yes we can all "do our bit" but I think this is probably the wrong start point.

    By all means stop clubs flying 30 minutes to games - that just wreaks of entitlement.
  • InspectorSandsInspectorSands
    MrWalker said:
    The issue of football teams taking planes for Premier League matches is causing concerns in the news this week.
    Surely it's the hundreds of thousands of travelling fans which is more damaging to the environment? 

    What do Lifers think about regionalizing all football leagues in the same way we have National League North and South?

    It would cut fan costs and carbon output.

    Not regionalizing the FA Cup would then make it more attractive and boost some gates.
    It could certainly cut fan costs in London and the south-east when half our matches are on an Oyster card, but not be much good elsewhere - there are still some huge distances to cover in National Leagues North and South (Gloucester to Scarborough, Torquay to almost anywhere in the South in recent years). 

    I reckon football could do a lot more to make rail/coach travel easier, less risky (in terms of postponements) and more attractive. But it's never going to suit everyone, and since most away fans who drive to matches will probably travelling in small groups over long distances, I guess it'd be much less damaging than people driving short distances on their own to the shops/work/gym/etc and clogging up urban streets.
  • LincsaddickLincsaddick
    edited March 2023
    both the west and east of England would be barren lands for top class football, London and the North West would be spoilt for choice .. I for one have no intention of letting climate change control every facet of my life, whilst still making adjustments to cut down on my carbon usage

    Short distance flights ? .. IF the flight is a scheduled one and would take place with a full or empty plane, then fair enough (although  i m o there should be a distance minimum set out for all flights) .. IF the flight was on a private or charter basis, that is surely a no no. though given traffic jams and problems on the railways, I can see the attraction
  • jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    It's a 'no' from me. If you're going to regionalise one leisure activity then you'd have to do it for all and for everything. Perhaps we should start by stopping unnecessary importation of vegetables that can be grown locally. There is such much that can be done before concerning ourselves with weekend leisure travel.

    Meanwhile it's a big 'yes' for rail infrastructure improvements with electric trains, and massive solar farm and wind farm investment.
  • Exiled_AddickExiled_Addick
    UK sport already is regionalized by most standards, here in Canada my city's hockey local rivals (I live in Edmonton, our rivals are the Calgary Flames) are so far away it'd be like Arsenal's local rivals been Leeds. The Edmonton Oilers play in the Western Conference, Pacific Division of the NHL so the NHL is technically regionalized, but the Oiler frequently travel as far as Anaheim, south of LA. Admittedly, you don't get traveling away fans in the same way you do with European football teams but with 80 odd games in an season (and that's just the NHL, there's also the NBA, NFL, MLB etc.) the carbon emissions from team travel for North American sport will dwarf what Premier League teams do.

    Until we have meaningful, global, energy transition away from fossil fuels, most other stuff is just fiddling around the edges anyway. 
  • jimmymelrosejimmymelrose
    edited March 2023
    You don't have to look as far as the USA. Just a little south of England is the French league where the top three divisions are nationalised. 

    The surface area of France is 552000km2 whereas for the whole of the UK it's 244000km2

    For example Nantes to Marseille, which is not the longest distance travelled in Ligue 1, is 986km by road. London to Inverness is 901km. 

    The UK is already regionalised into separate countries. If you want to regionalise it further then we should begin by demanding that Welsh clubs play in their own league.
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  • HastingsRedHastingsRed
    jimmymelrose said:
    You don't have to look as far as the USA. Just a little south of England is the French league where the top three divisions are nationalised. 

    The surface area of France is 552000km2 whereas for the whole of the UK it's 244000km2

    For example Nantes to Marseille, which is not the longest distance travelled in Ligue 1, is 986km by road. London to Inverness is 901km. 

    The UK is already regionalised into separate countries. If you want to regionalise it further then we should begin by demanding that Welsh clubs play in their own league.
    Did they ban domestic flights in France? There's some really long distances to travel in Ligue 1.
  • InspectorSandsInspectorSands
    HastingsRed said:
    jimmymelrose said:
    You don't have to look as far as the USA. Just a little south of England is the French league where the top three divisions are nationalised. 

    The surface area of France is 552000km2 whereas for the whole of the UK it's 244000km2

    For example Nantes to Marseille, which is not the longest distance travelled in Ligue 1, is 986km by road. London to Inverness is 901km. 

    The UK is already regionalised into separate countries. If you want to regionalise it further then we should begin by demanding that Welsh clubs play in their own league.
    Did they ban domestic flights in France? There's some really long distances to travel in Ligue 1.
    Where there's a train journey of less than two-and-a-half hours, yes (broadly speaking). https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals

    Exiled_Addick said:
    UK sport already is regionalized by most standards, here in Canada my city's hockey local rivals (I live in Edmonton, our rivals are the Calgary Flames) are so far away it'd be like Arsenal's local rivals been Leeds. The Edmonton Oilers play in the Western Conference, Pacific Division of the NHL so the NHL is technically regionalized, but the Oiler frequently travel as far as Anaheim, south of LA. Admittedly, you don't get traveling away fans in the same way you do with European football teams but with 80 odd games in an season (and that's just the NHL, there's also the NBA, NFL, MLB etc.) the carbon emissions from team travel for North American sport will dwarf what Premier League teams do.

    Until we have meaningful, global, energy transition away from fossil fuels, most other stuff is just fiddling around the edges anyway. 
    Indeed, at least we don't have regular away trips to Aberdeen or Inverness Caledonian Thistle. 
  • HastingsRedHastingsRed
    InspectorSands said:
    HastingsRed said:
    jimmymelrose said:
    You don't have to look as far as the USA. Just a little south of England is the French league where the top three divisions are nationalised. 

    The surface area of France is 552000km2 whereas for the whole of the UK it's 244000km2

    For example Nantes to Marseille, which is not the longest distance travelled in Ligue 1, is 986km by road. London to Inverness is 901km. 

    The UK is already regionalised into separate countries. If you want to regionalise it further then we should begin by demanding that Welsh clubs play in their own league.
    Did they ban domestic flights in France? There's some really long distances to travel in Ligue 1.
    Where there's a train journey of less than two-and-a-half hours, yes (broadly speaking). https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everything-we-know-from-a-week-of-green-transport-proposals

    Exiled_Addick said:
    UK sport already is regionalized by most standards, here in Canada my city's hockey local rivals (I live in Edmonton, our rivals are the Calgary Flames) are so far away it'd be like Arsenal's local rivals been Leeds. The Edmonton Oilers play in the Western Conference, Pacific Division of the NHL so the NHL is technically regionalized, but the Oiler frequently travel as far as Anaheim, south of LA. Admittedly, you don't get traveling away fans in the same way you do with European football teams but with 80 odd games in an season (and that's just the NHL, there's also the NBA, NFL, MLB etc.) the carbon emissions from team travel for North American sport will dwarf what Premier League teams do.

    Until we have meaningful, global, energy transition away from fossil fuels, most other stuff is just fiddling around the edges anyway. 
    Indeed, at least we don't have regular away trips to Aberdeen or Inverness Caledonian Thistle. 
    There's quite a few games then (in Ligue 1) where the two teams would be more then 2 1/2 hours apart by train.

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