Technical question re: emails

lordromford

Morning.

I’m in the process of buying a house. My solicitor has been a bit quiet for a while and I’ve chased them a couple of times for contracts etc. They generally respond by saying they’re waiting for the vendor’s solicitor.
This week, the estate agent informed me that my solicitor had received contracts, so I called them and they said they hadn’t yet.
I went back to the estate agent who then forwarded the email containing the contracts to me (she had been cc’d in to the email from the vendor’s solicitor) The contract and other documents were all there as a ‘mime attachment’ (whatever that is!)
Looking through the email, there was a time stamp from the previous week and my solicitor’s correct email address was listed as one of the recipients.
Now, my solicitor is now claiming that sometimes these emails bounce back due to the file size, which I know can happen, and are still saying they never received the contract until today when, due in part to me kicking up a bit of a stink but mainly due to the intervention of the excellent estate agent, the vendor’s solicitors have re-sent them in two parts. Also today, the estate agent tells me the contracts were sent on three occasions since May 11th.

So my questions:
Is my solicitor lying? Or Is it possible my solicitor is telling the truth? Does the time stamp on the forwarded email mean, undeniably, that they received it? Or does their “bouncing emails” story hold water? 

It just seems inconceivable that solicitors wouldn’t be prepared for emails not being delivered due to file size. This whole saga has basically cost me a month in the moving process, so I just want it moving on now, but I don’t know if this firm can be trusted.

I’d appreciate opinions from the learned community that is charltonlife. 😎

jacob_CAFC

It is possible your solicitor is telling the truth - different organisations will have different email systems with different policies. The timestamp doesn't prove anything other than when the estate agent received them

lordromford

jacob_CAFC said:

It is possible your solicitor is telling the truth - different organisations will have different email systems with different policies. The timestamp doesn't prove anything other than when the estate agent received them

Thanks. I’m really hoping this is the case, because house moving is stressful enough without feeling like the solicitor is dodgy.
If so, it suggests that the other solicitors aren’t checking their emails are being delivered though, right?

I’m just a bit astounded that two solicitors firms aren’t able to communicate with each other properly.

Jessie

I think if someone in the legal business can't tackle a minor issue like 'my email box can't receive emails with big attachments' or things like that, he might as well close his business. Email communication is the basic skill - I don't even think that can be called a skill because there's nothing complicated about it. I think your solicitor is either lying or just doesn't take your deal seriously. Maybe he's too occupied with other things at work. I can't imagine someone who has the lowest level of responsibility not at least checking to see what the problem is if the client keeps saying the email has been sent to him several times.

Hopefully this helps and you get your deal done as soon as possible.

Karim_myBagheri

Depends on the size of the attachment and what the solicitors system can take. I know Gmail for example has to be under 25mb. I would of thought if the estate agent could receive the email (plus you also received it via a bit forwarded) then surely they could as well. 
Plus just a guess if the original solicitors has the email in their sent folder with no error message saying it couldn't be delivered then it should of gone through, though that could be in a spam folder. You could look at the logs between the two email addresses but i doubt if either are willing to provide that information. 

Chris_from_Sidcup

It's possible that the solicitor's email system blocked them because of the attachments. 

I don't think the bounce back bit is likely because then the estate agent would've received an email saying it was undelivered and would've likely resent them another way or at a smaller file size.

But if the solicitors email system puts them into a spam folder on holds them for whatever reason, then the estate agent wouldn't know.

For example my work emails are checked by mimecast. Sometimes emails don't make it through but you get a notification saying so and you can go into mimecast and check it and release it.

ShootersHillGuru

Not much you can do about it now but I’d stay on your solicitors case from now on. When I moved three years ago I informed my solicitor that I wanted a weekly update regardless of progress. 

lordromford

Thanks for the answers all.
I’m still dubious as to how much honesty is in play here, but I believe the person dealing with my purchase has received a rocket up their arse since yesterday as she was super friendly and helpful on the phone this morning. 😎
(I told my broker about the issue and he said “leave it with me, my contact there is one of the partners - any more issues, just let me know”)

lordromford

ShootersHillGuru said:

Not much you can do about it now but I’d stay on your solicitors case from now on. When I moved three years ago I informed my solicitor that I wanted a weekly update regardless of progress. 

Cheers. I said this to her this morning. I was already a bit frustrated that I never heard from her unless I instigated communication.

Chris_from_Sidcup

lordromford said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Not much you can do about it now but I’d stay on your solicitors case from now on. When I moved three years ago I informed my solicitor that I wanted a weekly update regardless of progress. 

Cheers. I said this to her this morning. I was already a bit frustrated that I never heard from her unless I instigated communication.

Can you request to be kept on all future emails from the estate agent, then you will know when something is sent and can follow up.

PemburyAddick

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

JohnBoyUK

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

GNelson

Something to bear in mind if/when the time comes to transfer funds, especially if you're worried about your solicitor's email system:

Make sure to see them in person to confirm their bank details when it comes time to transfer funds just in case their emails have been hacked. Some horror stories out there about people sending their money to the wrong account.

I think I did a CHAPS payment when I bought my house.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/feb/29/bank-scam-solicitors-email-hacked

PemburyAddick

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

lol, I use it very sparingly (and usually forget) but if its related to contracts its a must. 

I wonder if CL should introduce a similar system. Just think of the extra fun to be had on the Takeover thread..

JohnBoyUK

PemburyAddick said:

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

lol, I use it very sparingly (and usually forget) but if its related to contracts its a must. 

I wonder if CL should introduce a similar system. Just think of the extra fun to be had on the Takeover thread..

I just love it when an email gets sent with high priority followed up with a phone call within 2 mins of its arrival.
Thank god for Caller ID lol

R0TW

Steam in there windmilling and turn a few tables over.
That should sort it.

Karim_myBagheri

That red flag for priority pisses me right off. 
This woman in our Northern office uses it all the time. I completely ignore it now as the last time was about someone's birthday drinks. Which is fine I guess but the drinks would be happening in chesterfield and I don't even know who the person who's birthday it is. 

Boom

Patel & Sons?

Fumbluff

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

lol, I use it very sparingly (and usually forget) but if its related to contracts its a must. 

I wonder if CL should introduce a similar system. Just think of the extra fun to be had on the Takeover thread..

I just love it when an email gets sent with high priority followed up with a phone call within 2 mins of its arrival.
Thank god for Caller ID lol

Blimey do you specifically target Bridezillas?

Siv_in_Norfolk

This sort of inefficiency irks me.

If high value transactions that have significant impacts - both financially and emotionally - on customers who pay large sums for your service are consistently being held up due to technical issues as simple as attachment file sizes, change your processes. 

To not do so seems professionally negligent to me.

Seriously - please ask them if they will change any element of their standard operating procedures for sending and receiving files (including notifying other solicitors about how to send to them) as a result of the significant delays you have encountered due to their current systems. 

They should be offering you a discount as an apology, too. 

Conveyancing solicitors are a racket that should disappear in time - and these sorts of shenanigans emphasise why that will be no bad thing. 

Elthamaddick

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

same here, I often open work emails for a quick scan and then make them 'unread' again to deal with later on.....if I then get chasers cause the sender know's I've opened it within about 2 hours they can fcuk right off

Stig

Elthamaddick said:

JohnBoyUK said:

PemburyAddick said:

A bit after the horse has bolted, but if you are sending important docs you should use delivery receipt and read receipt options on emails - and if neither has been trigerred then chase it up to make sure recipients get it and read it. Its a pain but just sending the email isn't the end of one's responsibility. Hope it all goes well!

Oh, you're one of 'them' are you?

EVERY time I receive a read receipt request, I click NO.
And trust me, if there's was an action in it, it goes to the bottom of the priority list out of principal.  Just saying

same here, I often open work emails for a quick scan and then make them 'unread' again to deal with later on.....if I then get chasers cause the sender know's I've opened it within about 2 hours they can fcuk right off

I used to work for a bloke who never opened his emails, he just read them from the preview pane. All the timestamp tick and turners used to come to me and ask, "doesn’t your boss ever open his emails?", to which I'd reply, "only if he likes you".

I agree, never accept a timestamp. It's invariably the people trying to push the dreariest of actions that use them.

SidewaysInOz

Email is not guaranteed delivery. A variety of things can block them such as attachment size or even filtering rules that people set-up on their inbox. Most solicitors these days have secure portals to eliminate the issues surrounding emails for this very reason.