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The Back to The Valley mural project
Comments
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Will look much better when finished, most of these types of things usually do!0
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I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?10 -
Only it will be too late to change it when its finished!19addickted96 said:Will look much better when finished, most of these types of things usually do!2 -
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sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady (edit: Gwen King, Valley Party candidate) who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…3 -
The straw hat lady as you describe her was Gwen King, Valley Party Candidatesammy391 said:sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady, who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…0 -
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!1 -
Well I think this has gone very well. Very well indeed.3
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Can’t they shoehorn Karl Howman, Jim Davidson and Sandgaard holding his guitar into this?
It’s what the supporters would’ve wanted….3 -
It ticks the DEI boxes, but rather misses the whole day.6
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Appreciate your responses but sorry mate you’re missing the point. Depict it as it was. Don’t try and recreate history. Use the comments on this thread as a barometer to how it will be perceived, otherwise it will be a massive fail.sammy391 said:
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!9 -
The word " most" doesn't fill me with much optimism, I'm afraid.19addickted96 said:Will look much better when finished, most of these types of things usually do!
Surely a mural commemorating one of the most important days in the history of our club should have been discussed more widely with opinion sought from more than a handful of fans.
We need a finished article that will be cherished & loved by the fans of today and of the future - one that new visitors to The Valley will remember for all the right reasons & give them a sense of the day itself.
If say, 3 or more options had been produced for fans to vote on, then we'd not only feel involved in the process but much more likely to choose one that WE feel reflects the day. Think the wonderful Back to The Valley posters produced .....Surely they'll always be remembered as iconic but the proposed, garish version now belatedly shared with us will be remembered for negative reasons IMO.
I commend CAST for volunteering to raise necessary funds but please tell us that this is not a signed & sealed issue which I believe may make donations less forthcoming than is hoped.9 -
Maybe that is why the attendance at the last event was so poor in comparison to the veterans games we held back in the 90s.sammy391 said:
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!3 -
Why not show at least one "stereotypical football fan"?sammy391 said:sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady (edit: Gwen King, Valley Party candidate) who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…
It's great to show people representing different demographics, but why ignore the single biggest group of fans, without whom the club would probably have died in the wilderness years?14 -
The timeless thing makes more sense, the people currently depicted, whilst I appreciate what you're saying about the diversity of the crowd, is far too modern looking to be the early ninetiessammy391 said:
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!2 -
Why is the Community Scheme on there, it was only set up with 1 employee about 5 months before we returned5
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sammy391 said:
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!This is all very laudable, as is the broad demographic, but everything that has happened at The Valley since can be encapsulated in that moment/day in time 5th December 1992 - the biggest game in our history. It is not in my opinion a timeless event. All the work, sacrifice, energy, endeavour, courage of all involved in the struggle was to get to that moment.That notwithstanding, and I accept it would look better on a big wall (it couldn't look worse), it's not a good depiction - in my eyes.Roger Alwen walking through the gates is the image indelibly etched on every Charlton supporter at that moment in time.6 -
It's dreadful and does not shout out "December 5 1992".
I wouldn't contribute a penny to what would become an embarrassment.9 -
They do, BADLY, with the bloke with the Burberry hood 🙈Off_it said:
Why not show at least one "stereotypical football fan"?sammy391 said:sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady (edit: Gwen King, Valley Party candidate) who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…
It's great to show people representing different demographics, but why ignore the single biggest group of fans, without whom the club would probably have died in the wilderness years?
there were plenty of “people of colour” (his words not mine” that could be celebrated - Leaburn, Grant, Norman etc without reducing it to this virtue signalling shambles.3 -
Iv got him…. Row v seat 28 East Stand…. I claim my prize. This is the “Where’s Wally” competition thread isn’t it……..0
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Another thought from reading other posts is how does this compare with the wonderful, iconic statue of Sam Bartram and more recently, the beautiful tribute to our Seb ?
Both were produced & carried out respectfully, evoking fond memories of these 2 Charlton "heroes".
I fear that the intended mural in its current form may well fall sadly short of such emotions.6 -
This image, taken by legendary club photographer Tom Morris, would make for a much better backdrop as the base of the mural - a lot of colour, the balloons and , crucially, the covered end in the backdrop (instead of the Jimmy seed stand, now the away end and not where the goal was scored either), and then you could add a load of the relevant other imagery of the occasionnacross the bottom if you wanted, Roger alwen, Colin Walsh celebrating, some of the fans shown in the current draft eg Gwen king, votv , mercury, the Sam bartram poster, headphones norm… that would be (many) miles better
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How do you know what he looks like? How do you know it's a bloke? All I can see is a coat.stop_shouting said:
They do, BADLY, with the bloke with the Burberry hood 🙈Off_it said:
Why not show at least one "stereotypical football fan"?sammy391 said:sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady (edit: Gwen King, Valley Party candidate) who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…
It's great to show people representing different demographics, but why ignore the single biggest group of fans, without whom the club would probably have died in the wilderness years?
there were plenty of “people of colour” (his words not mine” that could be celebrated - Leaburn, Grant, Norman etc without reducing it to this virtue signalling shambles.
Maybe they are a one-armed transgender individual?1 -
shirty5 said:
Who’s on the Celebration group, Sam?sammy391 said:
That’s the mural, been agreed with the ‘back to the valley’ celebration group- lead by Steve Sutherland.Off_it said:Great idea - but is that the picture?It’ll be done in spray paint and actual paint- so a bit different and not so ‘picture’ based
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Compare the actual photo to the digital representation.
It doesn't even begin to represent the day, yet alone "establish a permanent representation of the momentous day".
So what is the point? It doesn't even represent Charlton in 2023.6 -
I identify the person in the Burberry hood as a man but yes they could be transgender.Off_it said:
How do you know what he looks like? How do you know it's a bloke? All I can see is a coat.stop_shouting said:
They do, BADLY, with the bloke with the Burberry hood 🙈Off_it said:
Why not show at least one "stereotypical football fan"?sammy391 said:sam3110 said:
I think the actual content of the mural ie some flags and the gates with the back of people's heads going into a stadium that's already full, will look shite, however way it is painted. For me a mural should pick a defining moment of the day, either the opening of the gates, the first goal scored, the plenty of shots pre match talk to the players, something like that. I feel like this is trying to pander to too many things at once, and the depicted "fans" are a far cry from who was actually there on the daysammy391 said:stop_shouting said:
It’s like some 15 year old for their GCSE’s has been tasked with this as part of their course work. I’m gonna give the trust the benefit of the doubt and say this has just been mocked up as an initial announcement.DaveMehmet said:
A piss artist would have made a better attempt at itPopIcon said:I'll say what everyone else is thinking. It's fucking shit and needs a rethink and possibly new artist.This IS a mock up, created by the mural artists to give an idea of what the final mural will look like.
Obviously the nature of it being a somewhat collage of pictures (at the moment, in the mock-up) is based on the feed back/necessities given to the artists who has created a picture to show the different things that will be in the final thing.
newspapers ‘not being held’, and sausage looking gates will clearly be something that is refined and perfected- this is to be done by hand (spray paint, and other materials) rather than a huge sticker as some would gather by responses on here!Hope that helps?Whilst the picture is, as you say, somewhat ‘busy’ - the wall is reasonably large/long so will be less cramped in actuality!I’m a little bemused as to what you mean by ‘fans being a far cry from who was actually there’…
The mural shows/depicts Alwen who of course opened the gates. The straw hat lady (edit: Gwen King, Valley Party candidate) who was interviewed for several news pieces, as was the trombone/band player shown too (from 20:35, https://youtu.be/D4bKlYZWy1Y )
The rest ,show family’s and other demographics (rather than the stereotypical football fan) who were at The Valley that day- women, children and people of colour…
It's great to show people representing different demographics, but why ignore the single biggest group of fans, without whom the club would probably have died in the wilderness years?
there were plenty of “people of colour” (his words not mine” that could be celebrated - Leaburn, Grant, Norman etc without reducing it to this virtue signalling shambles.
Maybe they are a one-armed transgender individual?0 -
I'm Sure none of us want to knock the trust and the work they do, but on this, they really have hit the post and gone out for a corner .0
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Very much missed the mark with this one. What is the point of honouring an event if you ignore a lot of the people involved in said event?0
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So would you do similar if you were creating a mural for the formation of the club in 1905?sammy391 said:
Various commissions were sought, all very lifeless and ‘off the shelf’ when compared to other clubs and their murals/wall art.killerandflash said:I don't like to be negative, but I'm not impressed by the mural either.
Yes it's a mockup, but it lacks a bit of soul. It looks more like a poster Greenwich Council and the Community Trust would use to promote a family day at The Valley.
I wonder if it might have been better if the mural had just been based on an actual shot of Roger unlocking The Valley (from the ITV footage), with a banner around the outside highlighting those bodies involved in the return (VIP, VOTV, Valley Gold etc) rather than having them as artificial looking flags?
this mural of course is to celebrate BTTV, but as a on going reminder that The Valley is our home and that people of all backgrounds walk through those gates every Saturday/Tuesday!Ideally it was designed to be timeless, and not limited to a specific date/season - specially considering BTTV celebrations were held in 2023 despite 30 years being in 2022!!
Would you make it look like something from perhaps 2030?7 -
No, they've just hit the corner flag.heckington_reds said:I'm Sure none of us want to knock the trust and the work they do, but on this, they really have hit the post and gone out for a corner .3
This discussion has been closed.
