Thinking about it and qualities as an actual manager aside I suppose that Appleton does have one advantage in that he's dealt with weirdo regimes and background issues before so he probably actually DOES know what he's in for.
Him being willing to go back through it again could be taken either way but at least he's probably as well equipped as anyone to just get on with his job... for better or worse.
Also the reaction from other fans seems more positive, so I think there may be an element of us having been through the wringer so much we treat every decision as nefarious when the reality may just be that league 1 side make a logical appointment of a league 1 manager
I'm actually really impressed with Scott off the back of his interview around Appleton's appointment. The standards are ultimately what has slipped during Sandgaards reign and I do feel like we've become a club that accepts mediocrity in recent times, let's hope they're more than just empty words and we start to see that ruthless elite level mentality
Agree. I think Scott has been wrongly given the Roddy treatment by some fans, he’s clearly a football man that is trying to get us out of our 4 year slump. No easy task. Both he and Appleton need time.
I don’t see any reason why with the right organisation, motivation and luck with injuries why this group of players can’t now slowly start to climb the table. Currently this squad is less than the sum of its parts and Appleton has the experience to reverse that. I’m genuinely not expecting top four but I believe that top six is achievable even if it’s with a slow climb and late run. In fact I’d say that’s a good thing. I think MA’s number one priority has to be to get the defence sorted out. At present it’s our complete downfall. Stevenage needs to be the start of our season. I think a point there and ideally a clean sheet is the target. Anything else a bonus.
Top Six? With this squad? I mean if you had some evidence to back it up I'd love to agree with you / hope it happens.
Sadly..... we don't
Exactly! No evidence as yet as some of our new players haven't even started a game for us. New manager might get defence organized and improve confidence. Have you evidence that he won't?
You've written off the squad and manager this season after six league games. Now that is worthy of a 'lol'
Just listened to the Appleton and Scott interviews and I find myself a bit more enthused. I know it's easy to talk a good game, but I thought Scott spoke with a conviction and lucidity that convinced me they mean business and Appleton seems to have a bit more about him than Deano did.
Top Six? With this squad? I mean if you had some evidence to back it up I'd love to agree with you / hope it happens.
Sadly..... we don't
Exactly! No evidence as yet as some of our new players haven't even started a game for us. New manager might get defence organized and improve confidence. Have you evidence that he won't?
You've written off the squad and manager this season after six league games. Now that is worthy of a 'lol'
I have liked your post However, the evidence of what will be 1/8 of our season (and all of last season) suggests the current squad will finish mid table, around 15-20 points outside the play offs. I am hopeful this isn't the case I wouldn't bet on it though
It's not about writing them off I am a Charlton fan
I am simply basing it on the body of evidence we have.
You say only six games
I say the last three years
How many managers? How many failed set ups? How many broken promises?
I WANT us to do well
Everybody does
But what we see before our very eyes suggests, so far, to not be the case.
I hope Appleton and the SMT prove me wrong
Appleton's stats, Sunderland Till I Die and the shit show we've become suggest otherwise.
Again. I wanted to be wrong in January. I want to be wrong now.
I have watched his interview, heard what he has to say, and read comments about what he is supposed to be good at.
One has been good at working with and developing young players.
Eh?
Like Elerewe, Mitchell, Chin, Henry, Anderson, Campbell, Asimwe, Maynard Brewer, Leaburn, Ness, Kanu (and others on the way like Bower, Rylah, Laqeretabua etc) have they not been worked with, developed and given their chances already?
Yeah right.
In terms of Charlton Athletic’s need, unearthing and deploying our young talent has been going fine thank you very much, what on earth can Appleton add to what’s been going on already?
I call bollocks on the work with youngsters mantra, unless I am missing something obvious.
No Appleton, it is not about getting with the project and agreeing with where the opaque ownership want us to go, the so called developing youngsters.
No Mr Appleton, your entire raison d’etre at Charlton is to WIN.
Starting away at Stevenage on Saturday, then Wycombe at home, then Shrewsbury away, then Exeter and your old club Blackpool both at home, then Derby away, Reading at home and another of your old clubs Lincoln City away.
Appleton you’re not needed to help the development of our youngsters, that is bollocks being thrown around by the Shamocracy salivating about getting our young players to a point of being able to sell them. They might want you to fatten up the cash cows, but we the supporters want you to win matches, over and over again.
Get those wins and a conversation can start. Lose or draw at Stevenage and in my eyes you will have to have a Rhino hide (which judging by that vapid interview I think you already have) because I will not be the only one wanting you gone.
Would you prefer they appointed someone with no track record of working with and developing young players? I think the the best suggestion I’ve heard is taking break and seeing how it goes for ten matches or so.
Judging by the start to season there’s no easy fix unfortunately.
A track record is so in the past. As I have repeatedly said across a number of threads it is wins in the future I would like to become our track record. I am fed up with all this project stuff, direction of travel stuff, working with youngsters stuff, but I would be mightily cheered by winning the next eight games and eventual automatic promotion. Wouldn’t everybody be?
It’s just a bit glib Seth. Of course everybody would like to win the next eight matches, but what contribution to the debate are you making saying that? So if we win seven and lose one are we supposed to reach for the pitchforks? How about five wins, two defeats and a draw? Four wins, two draws and two defeats? I get that you’re not happy about the appointment, but perhaps take a pause, and see how we get on over the next ten games? The bare minimum we need is improvement, and because of all the weirdness we’ve seen over the last seven games (bizarre line ups, failures to sub 18 years olds barely able to run, odd tactics, late substitutions etc etc) I don’t think that’ll be too hard to achieve. George Alek has made some quite positive comments about MA, and he knows more about him than either of us, I suspect. Certainly way more than me.
It would actually be quite Charlton for the least welcomed managerial appointment since Fraeye to turn out to be quite successful.
Some of the negativity has been a bit bonkers, although perhaps understandable when the general state of the club is taken into account.
PS Seth, re your other post: No, it’s not just you and Appleton that want promotion. Every single Charlton fan wants promotion, from the most negative, to the most positive. Pretty sure you know that though.
I have watched his interview, heard what he has to say, and read comments about what he is supposed to be good at.
One has been good at working with and developing young players.
Eh?
Like Elerewe, Mitchell, Chin, Henry, Anderson, Campbell, Asimwe, Maynard Brewer, Leaburn, Ness, Kanu (and others on the way like Bower, Rylah, Laqeretabua etc) have they not been worked with, developed and given their chances already?
Yeah right.
In terms of Charlton Athletic’s need, unearthing and deploying our young talent has been going fine thank you very much, what on earth can Appleton add to what’s been going on already?
I call bollocks on the work with youngsters mantra, unless I am missing something obvious.
No Appleton, it is not about getting with the project and agreeing with where the opaque ownership want us to go, the so called developing youngsters.
No Mr Appleton, your entire raison d’etre at Charlton is to WIN.
Starting away at Stevenage on Saturday, then Wycombe at home, then Shrewsbury away, then Exeter and your old club Blackpool both at home, then Derby away, Reading at home and another of your old clubs Lincoln City away.
Appleton you’re not needed to help the development of our youngsters, that is bollocks being thrown around by the Shamocracy salivating about getting our young players to a point of being able to sell them. They might want you to fatten up the cash cows, but we the supporters want you to win matches, over and over again.
Get those wins and a conversation can start. Lose or draw at Stevenage and in my eyes you will have to have a Rhino hide (which judging by that vapid interview I think you already have) because I will not be the only one wanting you gone.
so if we don't win at Stevenage you want him gone? Wow. Just wow. You are fast approaching RonnieMoore levels of WUMMING arn't you?
If we win at Stevenage that will add up to three points from three away games. That then leaves the six points dropped at home to make up. If we lose at Stevenage that leaves us nine points to make up (in my target for automatic promotion). So the best way to shut me up is for Michael Appleton to win at Stevenage. I know I am in a minority in my stance, most people want to give this circus a chance which means a longer term tolerance than I feel like giving. My tolerance level is short term, so the argument might be where is the breaking point for you and others. I have at least marked out my territory, wins and promotion.
Surely the benchmark would be to ask whether Pep Guardiola would turn this squad into League One winners, and work backwards from there. I've seen nothing from our defence so far to suggest any manager could get them playing like league beaters.
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
I for one (and it probably is only me) will be the more positive about the appointment until 10 games have been played. We’ve lost 6 games in 8. Should we not have looked more rationally at things . The manager should be in the background and not the focus of attention. Let him get on with it and let’s turn up and support the team. We all love having a moan but sometimes it’s best if you stay quiet. Negativity breeds malevolence.
" The manager should be in the background and not the focus of attention".
You said it, @bromleyjohn . You're right, of course. That's how it used to be. The manager worked behind the scenes, maybe a quote to the local reporter, etc. ...... and was allowed just to get on with his job.
In this internet age ..... it's us the football fans, with our extreme expectation and sense of entitlement to know everything instantly; 24/7 speculation and sometimes hysterical over-analysis of the minutest detail on social media, which is creating the situations of today. Not just Charlton fans, but fans at every club throughout the divisions. I mean, in the Prem it's even more exposed in the glare of media saturation.
The villification of Appleton is ridiculous. He's been appointed to the job. Let him get on with it to justify his appointment.
Why are some people so quick to judge and condemn him, before a ball has been kicked? Based on what?
Give the man a chance. If he does a good job, then he stays. If the results don't come, he'll be gone soon enough.
Surely the benchmark would be to ask whether Pep Guardiola would turn this squad into League One winners, and work backwards from there. I've seen nothing from our defence so far to suggest any manager could get them playing like league beaters.
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
Only 3 teams have conceded more goals than us this year and one of them conceded 7 in one game. If we swapped out our whole defence say with Carlisle's who have only conceded 6 goals and had them playing under Holden we'd have probably conceded the most amount of goals in the division by far.
For those on here that are 50 plus, and have seen a lot of seasons / managers, just wondering how you feel about our latest incumbent?
Well I am nearly 80,seen a lot of seasons.When I first watched football,we didnt really care who the manager was,or half the time didnt know.Jimmy Seed was the first for me and then Jimmy Trotter,but they always stayed in the background.Gradually revolving managers became the norm,and also became higher profile.We had a succession of managers,Nelson,Craggs,Bailey,Firmani,Mullery and more,all ok without pulling trees up,later we had Lennie who was great,and then of course Curbs,no more to be said.Since Curbs,well its all been said,Dowie was useless,Les Reed Ridiculous,Pardew crap,i could go on,but our record with managers ,other than Bowyer and Powell has been appalling.Bob Peters,dear oh Dear,Jose Riga,Guy Luzon,Karyl Freye,right up to present day,just one disaster after another.Well how do I feel about Appleton,answer,I dont know much about him,but he has his work cut out,and I feel we should give him all the support we can.Who could we have got who was guaranteed to be better,what good manager would leave a job to join us.this whole situation we now have is down to Southall making promises to Roland about buying the ground for 50m and meanwhile just taking on the debt making side of the club(we all know why).This is nothing to do with Appleton,he is not to blame for our situation,he has been employed to do a job,we can help him by being patient.
Great post. Lots of good perspective in there.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as they are now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
Top Six? With this squad? I mean if you had some evidence to back it up I'd love to agree with you / hope it happens.
Sadly..... we don't
Exactly! No evidence as yet as some of our new players haven't even started a game for us. New manager might get defence organized and improve confidence. Have you evidence that he won't?
You've written off the squad and manager this season after six league games. Now that is worthy of a 'lol'
I have liked your post However, the evidence of what will be 1/8 of our season (and all of last season) suggests the current squad will finish mid table, around 15-20 points outside the play offs. I am hopeful this isn't the case I wouldn't bet on it though
It's not about writing them off I am a Charlton fan
I am simply basing it on the body of evidence we have.
You say only six games
I say the last three years
How many managers? How many failed set ups? How many broken promises?
I WANT us to do well
Everybody does
But what we see before our very eyes suggests, so far, to not be the case.
I hope Appleton and the SMT prove me wrong
Appleton's stats, Sunderland Till I Die and the shit show we've become suggest otherwise.
Again. I wanted to be wrong in January. I want to be wrong now.
I really, really, REALLY want to be wrong.
I simply wouldn't bet on it though.
Fair enough. However, I think there's a big difference in being able to get automatics and being able to mount a challenge to make top six. The league is supposedly weaker this season and the first few games have not suggested anyone is in a class of their own, so it's still all to play for.
From the evidence of our defensive frailties so far, top six is a distant possibility, but I'm banking on anyone semi competent, and I believe Appleton is that, to organise it better and make us harder to beat as a priority. We go from there, but there's a long way to go and masses of points up for grabs. Don't underestimate how much confidence can play a part too, and, if we get a new manager bounce, that should pick up.
I've just posted a few thoughts on our ongoing ownership tribulations you've alluded to on the Charlie's Angels thread or whatever it's called.
For those on here that are 50 plus, and have seen a lot of seasons / managers, just wondering how you feel about our latest incumbent?
Well I am nearly 80,seen a lot of seasons.When I first watched football,we didnt really care who the manager was,or half the time didnt know.Jimmy Seed was the first for me and then Jimmy Trotter,but they always stayed in the background.Gradually revolving managers became the norm,and also became higher profile.We had a succession of managers,Nelson,Craggs,Bailey,Firmani,Mullery and more,all ok without pulling trees up,later we had Lennie who was great,and then of course Curbs,no more to be said.Since Curbs,well its all been said,Dowie was useless,Les Reed Ridiculous,Pardew crap,i could go on,but our record with managers ,other than Bowyer and Powell has been appalling.Bob Peters,dear oh Dear,Jose Riga,Guy Luzon,Karyl Freye,right up to present day,just one disaster after another.Well how do I feel about Appleton,answer,I dont know much about him,but he has his work cut out,and I feel we should give him all the support we can.Who could we have got who was guaranteed to be better,what good manager would leave a job to join us.this whole situation we now have is down to Southall making promises to Roland about buying the ground for 50m and meanwhile just taking on the debt making side of the club(we all know why).This is nothing to do with Appleton,he is not to blame for our situation,he has been employed to do a job,we can help him by being patient.
Great post. Lots of good perspective in there.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as theyare now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
Need to see changes in the rest defence, set piece coverage and defensive organisation in open play.
We’re getting players back from injury and others with fitness concerns should be close to match ready. So, we also need to see a higher tempo with the ball, an improved intensity without it and the ability to sustain those levels throughout the match.
I think he’s a good coach but not a great manager. Coming in as Head Coach with our new modern set up, that should work in his favour. We’ve had a bad start but that’s not Appletons fault so I’m reserving judgement. Let’s see how close or how far we are from that 20 point target after 5pm 7th October.
Well trust Michael Appleton settles in very quickly. Hope within hope he can bring his own staff in to work with. Hotel or living out of a suitcase can be no fun with no one around you you can trust. Off to watch Stevenage today is at least a start but who goes with him Scott? Here once again lies the problem SMT.
Best of luck Michael you are going to need it.
Good point. Maybe Anthony Hayes will be at Stevenage with MA. They probably need to do lots of this type of thing too from their scouting and in the coming weeks and months -
you may have noticed that we, the fan base, are not yet 100% behind your appointment. A man with your muscles probably doesn’t have to worry what other people think of them, but here’s a suggested 5 point plan to get us onside anyway:
1. win the next 4 games 2. Never use the word ‘project’ 3. Be caught in a hot-mic moment describing CM as ‘a bit of a prick’ 4. give Steve Evans a twatting when the chubby chancer starts having a go. Keep glaring at him rather than the ref’s inevitable red card as you make your way to the directors box 5. actually, that will do for me
Comments
Him being willing to go back through it again could be taken either way but at least he's probably as well equipped as anyone to just get on with his job... for better or worse.
Plum by name.....
With this squad?
I mean if you had some evidence to back it up I'd love to agree with you / hope it happens.
Sadly..... we don't
You've written off the squad and manager this season after six league games. Now that is worthy of a 'lol'
Heart wants to let it rip, but head's advising patience....
IF we win next Saturday, and the performance suggests that the wind is changing (?) , I think that'll be the time to let it go.
( Best not to be in my vicinity at that point. You've been warned
I know it's easy to talk a good game, but I thought Scott spoke with a conviction and lucidity that convinced me they mean business and Appleton seems to have a bit more about him than Deano did.
Oooh, I love a woman who talks dirty...🙄
That will do for me for a start.
However, the evidence of what will be 1/8 of our season (and all of last season) suggests the current squad will finish mid table, around 15-20 points outside the play offs.
I am hopeful this isn't the case
I wouldn't bet on it though
It's not about writing them off
I am a Charlton fan
I am simply basing it on the body of evidence we have.
You say only six games
I say the last three years
How many managers?
How many failed set ups?
How many broken promises?
I WANT us to do well
Everybody does
But what we see before our very eyes suggests, so far, to not be the case.
I hope Appleton and the SMT prove me wrong
Appleton's stats, Sunderland Till I Die and the shit show we've become suggest otherwise.
Again. I wanted to be wrong in January. I want to be wrong now.
I really, really, REALLY want to be wrong.
I simply wouldn't bet on it though.
So if we win seven and lose one are we supposed to reach for the pitchforks? How about five wins, two defeats and a draw? Four wins, two draws and two defeats?
I get that you’re not happy about the appointment, but perhaps take a pause, and see how we get on over the next ten games? The bare minimum we need is improvement, and because of all the weirdness we’ve seen over the last seven games (bizarre line ups, failures to sub 18 years olds barely able to run, odd tactics, late substitutions etc etc) I don’t think that’ll be too hard to achieve. George Alek has made some quite positive comments about MA, and he knows more about him than either of us, I suspect. Certainly way more than me.
If he can stop the basic errors, give us a better defensive shape and improve set pieces that's already a big points improvement.
Makes it pointless to be talking about the manager when it's the squad that's the issue.
Welcome Michael. Hope Louis asks you about the meme and that you're fully aware you're starting your reign as a joke. Good luck
You said it, @bromleyjohn . You're right, of course. That's how it used to be.
The manager worked behind the scenes, maybe a quote to the local reporter, etc. ...... and was allowed just to get on with his job.
In this internet age ..... it's us the football fans, with our extreme expectation and sense of entitlement to know everything instantly; 24/7 speculation and sometimes hysterical over-analysis of the minutest detail on social media, which is creating the situations of today. Not just Charlton fans, but fans at every club throughout the divisions. I mean, in the Prem it's even more exposed in the glare of media saturation.
The villification of Appleton is ridiculous.
He's been appointed to the job. Let him get on with it to justify his appointment.
Why are some people so quick to judge and condemn him, before a ball has been kicked? Based on what?
Give the man a chance.
If he does a good job, then he stays. If the results don't come, he'll be gone soon enough.
Only 3 teams have conceded more goals than us this year and one of them conceded 7 in one game. If we swapped out our whole defence say with Carlisle's who have only conceded 6 goals and had them playing under Holden we'd have probably conceded the most amount of goals in the division by far.
I heard that managers way back when weren't as big a deal as they are now and it was owners/chairmen who raised the profile of coaches to managers in order to take attention away from themselves
From the evidence of our defensive frailties so far, top six is a distant possibility, but I'm banking on anyone semi competent, and I believe Appleton is that, to organise it better and make us harder to beat as a priority. We go from there, but there's a long way to go and masses of points up for grabs. Don't underestimate how much confidence can play a part too, and, if we get a new manager bounce, that should pick up.
I've just posted a few thoughts on our ongoing ownership tribulations you've alluded to on the Charlie's Angels thread or whatever it's called.
Need to see changes in the rest defence, set piece coverage and defensive organisation in open play.
So, we also need to see a higher tempo with the ball, an improved intensity without it and the ability to sustain those levels throughout the match.
you may have noticed that we, the fan base, are not yet 100% behind your appointment. A man with your muscles probably doesn’t have to worry what other people think of them, but here’s a suggested 5 point plan to get us onside anyway:
1. win the next 4 games
2. Never use the word ‘project’
3. Be caught in a hot-mic moment describing CM as ‘a bit of a prick’
4. give Steve Evans a twatting when the chubby chancer starts having a go. Keep glaring at him rather than the ref’s inevitable red card as you make your way to the directors box
5. actually, that will do for me
Not yet yours,
RMN