What is our best starting 11 now things have settled down?

DOUCHER

Garrymanilow said:

DOUCHER said:

Garrymanilow said:

soapboxsam said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Have you sold George Dobson to a Championship team or don't you rate him?
@Garrymanilow


Bring in Dobson with Chuks and Miles too job share and that could well be the line up if they were ever all fit at the same time.

I rate him very highly, I just think there are situations where he's not the best tool for the job. He's definitely one of our best 11 players but maybe he isn't part of our best 11. It's a bit of a broad question asking what the 'best' 11 is because you can play different ways for different situations. I think if we went up against a team likely to dominate us then Dobson would be our most important player. 

We should be looking to control games more against smaller teams though and I think we can play better football a different way. Dobson wins a lot of tackles and solves a lot of problems that have come up through sloppy play but he's rarely a key part of our best attacking moves. He's not bad with the ball but he's not very dynamic with it either and he does cause his own share of problems by trying to win every single ball he can rather than holding his position; he tries to solve problems after they happen instead of before they start. Dobson has brilliant tackling stats but his peers in those top 5 lists are all in mid-table or relegation teams who don't see as much of the ball.

I'd like to see us play a bit more like the teams who end up in the top 6. Very few of them have a destroyer, they have a midfield that takes care of the ball, dominates the time on it and drags opposition players out of position through passing while still being able to put a foot in. Cullen types. That's how I see Louie Watson so far. I think him alongside Fraser would allow us to control a game a lot more and with May's industry in front of them we'd make the most of having four forwards on the pitch. 

Assuming fitness in an ideal world you'd always play Aneke. Reality is different but I like having a lopsided attacking threat. Pacy winger on one side and powerful forward on the right moving into the gaps Chuks creates when he drags players to him as he bulldozes through. Defenders can't just sit deep to worry about CBT because then they invite May, Leaburn and Aneke to have too much space to work in, but they can't push up too much to limit the time they spend in space in front of them because then they give CBT too much of an advantage. The only thing I'm not sure about is how well Fraser and May would do together if May is in the 10 role but I'd like to find out

Let’s be honest - u forgot him didn’t u ? 

No, but I genuinely did forget Panutche Camara existed

fair play - i'd written camara off tbh due to the lack of info but the injury update is a big boost - from what people have said about him and the little i've seen him play, i'd say he has the ability, if he can get fit, to also be in the starting 11, ahead of watson and lift our ability to boss games which is a bit in and out at the moment  

Garrymanilow

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

@wmcf123 clearly very upset by the exclusion of Dobson. Getting a bit weird and culty with some of you, it's ok for people to suggest different lineups

You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to laugh at it . I can assure you, I’m not “very upset” .

It's ok to be upset, we're all friends here

WrightCharlie

A good question and discussion, the highlight for me is a general consensus that our squad has more depth and quality than it has for quite a while.
To answer the question, if they’re fit and in decent form then Isted, Asiimwe, Jones, Edun, Camara, May, Aneke, and CBT would always be starters……. with one from Elerewe or Hector, one from Fraser or L Watson and one from TC or Leaburn depending on the opposition’s likely strengths and weaknesses and the remaining 3 always on the bench along  with AMB, Ness, C Campbell, Tedic and the young midfielder who came on and shone in the Villa game

JamesSeed

I’d alternate Leaburn & May. No brainer for me. 

wmcf123

Garrymanilow said:

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

@wmcf123 clearly very upset by the exclusion of Dobson. Getting a bit weird and culty with some of you, it's ok for people to suggest different lineups

You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to laugh at it . I can assure you, I’m not “very upset” .

It's ok to be upset, we're all friends here

Why would I be upset that you expressed an opinion about a football team ? 

Scoham

WrightCharlie said:

A good question and discussion, the highlight for me is a general consensus that our squad has more depth and quality than it has for quite a while.
To answer the question, if they’re fit and in decent form then Isted, Asiimwe, Jones, Edun, Camara, May, Aneke, and CBT would always be starters……. with one from Elerewe or Hector, one from Fraser or L Watson and one from TC or Leaburn depending on the opposition’s likely strengths and weaknesses and the remaining 3 always on the bench along  with AMB, Ness, C Campbell, Tedic and the young midfielder who came on and shone in the Villa game

No Dobson even on the bench?

Elthamaddick

Genuinely think we have to forget about Chuks ever being a regular starter.

He's generally got a great 30-45 mins in him and I'd always rather that be coming on into a game than beginning it....he has far more effect as a sub

cafc_se7

Just wanted to highlight the snidey remarks and LOLs I got back to my Aneke comment in the Transfer Rumours thread. Happy Friday. 

WrightCharlie

Scoham said:

WrightCharlie said:

A good question and discussion, the highlight for me is a general consensus that our squad has more depth and quality than it has for quite a while.
To answer the question, if they’re fit and in decent form then Isted, Asiimwe, Jones, Edun, Camara, May, Aneke, and CBT would always be starters……. with one from Elerewe or Hector, one from Fraser or L Watson and one from TC or Leaburn depending on the opposition’s likely strengths and weaknesses and the remaining 3 always on the bench along  with AMB, Ness, C Campbell, Tedic and the young midfielder who came on and shone in the Villa game

No Dobson even on the bench?

Whoops I forgot about him on the bench, I did think about him as a starter but didn’t include him as he doesn’t quite have it for me.
Your question had me going back over my 11 and made me think about picking the team for a game. I realised I when I think about the ‘who’ I tend to evaluate them on their individual performances but I guess looks at how they all fit together for his formation and tactics and for who we’re playing. It must be fun and a great challenge being a coach.

soapboxsam

I don't believe you are Wright Charlie but you are in a small minority that doesn't see  George Dobson like I/we see his 100+ minutes in the heart of Midfield. For a league 1 club we are lucky to have had him over the last few seasons as the myriad of other midfielders were/are either injured, only fit to play 60 minutes or just not good enough.

redman

SouthWest_Addicks said:

AMB

Watson, Jones, Hector, Edun

L Watson , Dobson

TC, May, CBT

Leaburn. 

- Can spot obviously faults with the team (Hard to get both Fraser and Camera in the side without shoving May on the wing) but think there is plenty of talent in the side to be competing near top of the division. 

Personally I think playing May as a 10, with 3 in front of him, leaves us very vulnerable in midfield against the better sides in the division. We could even see this against Blackpool where Watson (or Camera, who I haven't seen enough of) and Dobson were simply outgunned, as May plays further forward. Fraser in a midfield 3 with Watson and Dobson. Fraser has both the ability and intelligence to adapt his positional play to the needs of the game. 
(Btw I am not suggesting leaving May out, TC drops to the bench)

Cafc43v3r

soapboxsam said:

I don't believe you are Wright Charlie but you are in a small minority that doesn't see  George Dobson like I/we see his 100+ minutes in the heart of Midfield. For a league 1 club we are lucky to have had him over the last few seasons as the myriad of other midfielders were/are either injured, only fit to play 60 minutes or just not good enough.

Doesn't you last point actually back up what the previous poster was saying?

We have has a myriad of midfielders over the last few seasons that aren't good enough.  We have also haven't had fit for purpose full backs and centerhalves falling a sleep or charging out of position in a vain attempt to win an unwinnable ball.

As a result of that we have had more holes than a Swiss cheese which Dobson has commendably done his best to fill.  With no-one filling them to that standard we would have done even worse and it's not an  exaggeration to say we could have been in a relegation scrap for the last two seasons.

Ĺast seasons top 6 let in significantly less than us.  No one in the top 6 made anywhere near as many tackles as Dobson did.  He is better at that than anyone that played in on Bowyer or Powell"s teams.

If you had a rest of a team that was good enough to be in the top six would you need someone to do that?  

Should Dobson be one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment?  Absolutely.  If the others were good enough to mount a promotion charge, would he get in the team?  I think that's impossible to answer with any degree of confidence.

MintoHumbugs

When ( if ) everyone is fit.

                      AMB

  Asimwe  Jones  Hector  Edun

      Watson   Dobson  Camara 

       May      Aneke    CBT  

FULLERpromise

MintoHumbugs said:

When ( if ) everyone is fit.

                      AMB

  Asimwe  Jones  Hector  Edun

      Watson   Dobson  Camara 

       May      Aneke    CBT  

That’s the winner for me with only one being Leaburn for 60 and then Aneke for 30 depending on oppo

soapboxsam

Cafc43v3r said:

soapboxsam said:

I don't believe you are Wright Charlie but you are in a small minority that doesn't see  George Dobson like I/we see his 100+ minutes in the heart of Midfield. For a league 1 club we are lucky to have had him over the last few seasons as the myriad of other midfielders were/are either injured, only fit to play 60 minutes or just not good enough.

If you had a rest of a team that was good enough to be in the top six would you need someone to do that?  

I definitely think top six clubs in League 1 have a Dobson type player. More than 1 normally as if you don't have the ball for 50% of the time then you need players giving their all to get the ball back or closing down angles and marking. Not many Pirlo's in League 1.

NabySarr

Still want to see this kind of set up. Which can convert into a back 4 with Thomas moving to left back so that CBT can worry less about defending 

                           AMB

           

              Jones    Hector   Thomas 

Watson   Watson  Dobson   Fraser   CBT 

                    Leaburn      May       
                 

            
 I know CBT at wing back will get hate. But I’d rather do that if it means we can fit Fraser into the midfield and May and Leaburn up front together. Seen suggestions above that have May on the right, Leaburn on the right etc, I’d rather CBT at wing back than either of those moves 

NabySarr

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

NabySarr

Realistically 3-5-2 won’t happen so if I was picking it in Appleton’s formation I’d go

                      AMB
 Asiimwe  Hector  Jones   Edun 
               Watson Dobson 

 T.Campbell    May        CBT
                     Leaburn 

Against weaker opposition then I’d have Fraser in over Watson. But I think Watson is much better at playing that deeper role next to Dobson and our defence does probably need more protection than Fraser would offer 

SouthWest_Addicks

redman said:

SouthWest_Addicks said:

AMB

Watson, Jones, Hector, Edun

L Watson , Dobson

TC, May, CBT

Leaburn. 

- Can spot obviously faults with the team (Hard to get both Fraser and Camera in the side without shoving May on the wing) but think there is plenty of talent in the side to be competing near top of the division. 

Personally I think playing May as a 10, with 3 in front of him, leaves us very vulnerable in midfield against the better sides in the division. We could even see this against Blackpool where Watson (or Camera, who I haven't seen enough of) and Dobson were simply outgunned, as May plays further forward. Fraser in a midfield 3 with Watson and Dobson. Fraser has both the ability and intelligence to adapt his positional play to the needs of the game. 
(Btw I am not suggesting leaving May out, TC drops to the bench)

Very fair point. It’s a real challenge to get both CBT & May into the same team without forcing one of them play out of position. I think most would agree that May playing up front on his own didn’t suit him. 

Garrymanilow

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

@wmcf123 clearly very upset by the exclusion of Dobson. Getting a bit weird and culty with some of you, it's ok for people to suggest different lineups

You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to laugh at it . I can assure you, I’m not “very upset” .

It's ok to be upset, we're all friends here

Why would I be upset that you expressed an opinion about a football team ? 

No idea. I'm sure you have your reasons

Garrymanilow

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Billy_Mix

Isted & AMB are interchangeable

Asiimwe - Hector - Jones - Thomas

              Watson - Dobson

Tyreece    -    May   -      CBT
                    Leaburn

This lineup demands huge effort to be expended without the ball, which does seem to be a Mickey Apples preference but ain't what a good number of the squad are known for.  It's a 16 man game so when fit: Edun, Ness, Fraser, Anderson, Chem Campbell, Camará and Chuks are all going to get significant game time, especially in periods of Sat, Tue, Sat, Tue like we have coming up over the next month.

What this does illustrate so clearly is how thin the resources are defensively.  Our 'best' CH partnership is never more than 45 minutes away from giving a goal away and the cover is playing at left back or a 21 year old in his second season of first team football.  Our 'best' left back is a right footed CH obviously playing out of position, the cover is left footed but defensively weak.  Our best right back is 18 in his first season of mens' football and the cover there is also weak.
The January window has to be focused on the back 4/5, there's some deadwood to be pruned out but it ain't gonna be generating any fees nor freeing up sizable wages.  The new ownership's monetary mettle will be tested.

NabySarr

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

wmcf123

Garrymanilow said:

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

wmcf123 said:

Garrymanilow said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

@wmcf123 clearly very upset by the exclusion of Dobson. Getting a bit weird and culty with some of you, it's ok for people to suggest different lineups

You are entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to laugh at it . I can assure you, I’m not “very upset” .

It's ok to be upset, we're all friends here

Why would I be upset that you expressed an opinion about a football team ? 

No idea. I'm sure you have your reasons

Are you ok ? I clicked “lol” as a feature on here - whether we think that should exist or not .  

Cafc43v3r

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

If we ever don't pick Dobson out of choice I suspect we wouldn't pick Fraser either.  Not as the two, maybe as the 10.

Neither Camara nor Watson are as good as what Dobson is great at, they might not be quite as good as Fraser going the other way either.

But since JFC got injured we haven't had a plethora, or really any, of midfielders that can "go both ways" cue the Kenneth Williams meme.

I am not, in anyway saying "drop Dobson" but at the same time I don't think it's that out of the question that this group of players could evolve to a stage that they don't need Dobson. If that does happen I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest others might offer more.  Of course they might not. 

None of us have ever seen Dobson not have to do what he is brilliant at because we haven't been good enough.

wmcf123

Cafc43v3r said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

If we ever don't pick Dobson out of choice I suspect we wouldn't pick Fraser either.  Not as the two, maybe as the 10.

Neither Camara nor Watson are as good as what Dobson is great at, they might not be quite as good as Fraser going the other way either.

But since JFC got injured we haven't had a plethora, or really any, of midfielders that can "go both ways" cue the Kenneth Williams meme.

I am not, in anyway saying "drop Dobson" but at the same time I don't think it's that out of the question that this group of players could evolve to a stage that they don't need Dobson. If that does happen I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest others might offer more.  Of course they might not. 

None of us have ever seen Dobson not have to do what he is brilliant at because we haven't been good enough.

I think we are getting ideas above our station to suggest Dobson isn’t vital , largely because of our still fragile defence and goalkeeping situation 

Cafc43v3r

wmcf123 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

If we ever don't pick Dobson out of choice I suspect we wouldn't pick Fraser either.  Not as the two, maybe as the 10.

Neither Camara nor Watson are as good as what Dobson is great at, they might not be quite as good as Fraser going the other way either.

But since JFC got injured we haven't had a plethora, or really any, of midfielders that can "go both ways" cue the Kenneth Williams meme.

I am not, in anyway saying "drop Dobson" but at the same time I don't think it's that out of the question that this group of players could evolve to a stage that they don't need Dobson. If that does happen I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest others might offer more.  Of course they might not. 

None of us have ever seen Dobson not have to do what he is brilliant at because we haven't been good enough.

I think we are getting ideas above our station to suggest Dobson isn’t vital , largely because of our still fragile defence and goalkeeping situation 

Which is exactly what I haven't just said...

wmcf123

Cafc43v3r said:

wmcf123 said:

Cafc43v3r said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

If we ever don't pick Dobson out of choice I suspect we wouldn't pick Fraser either.  Not as the two, maybe as the 10.

Neither Camara nor Watson are as good as what Dobson is great at, they might not be quite as good as Fraser going the other way either.

But since JFC got injured we haven't had a plethora, or really any, of midfielders that can "go both ways" cue the Kenneth Williams meme.

I am not, in anyway saying "drop Dobson" but at the same time I don't think it's that out of the question that this group of players could evolve to a stage that they don't need Dobson. If that does happen I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest others might offer more.  Of course they might not. 

None of us have ever seen Dobson not have to do what he is brilliant at because we haven't been good enough.

I think we are getting ideas above our station to suggest Dobson isn’t vital , largely because of our still fragile defence and goalkeeping situation 

Which is exactly what I haven't just said...

I didn’t say you did .  Very tetchy in here today 

NabySarr

Cafc43v3r said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

NabySarr said:

Garrymanilow said:

                   Isted

Asiimwe Hector Jones Edun

           L Watson Fraser

         Leaburn May CBT

                  Aneke

Watson Fraser and May as your 3 in the middle would get roasted by any decent league 1 side. Our defence is bad enough, imagine what removing Dobson’s protection from it would do 

Nah, it doesn't need to. It all depends on your shape without the ball and players' willingness to work. Asiimwe and Edun are players who naturally move inside whenever they can so they would be adding more options and support in the midfield for Fraser and Watson allowing May to work in the space in front of the opposition defenders. You'd need them to be sensible, one staying in position when the other has gone to provide an option or cover some space and you'd need your wider players to track diligently without the ball, but they should be doing that anyway. You don't need to look at formations as all these separate units. May, Watson and Fraser aren't the only players who should be contributing in the middle.

The point, which Cafc43v3r and I have been trying to make is that if the team was successfully coached to carry out their roles more intelligently you don't need Dobson's protection as a necessary shield against failure. You don't need to stick a broom in there to clean up if you're already keeping the place tidy, we're just not very good at that at the moment. In our decent L1 teams of previous years, rare as they have been, we haven't just had this one player responsible for desperately saving us from ourselves, we've had control, or we've been secure when teams do try and get at us. Our best 11 is one that doesn't need a babysitter at the expense of controlling a game. It needs a lot of work but that's what our best way of playing would be and with the right coaching I think we've got decent enough players to do it. We just never seem to get the right coaching.

But then also like I said before, against the very best teams in this league I would play Dobson if it's a game where realistically we're not going to be able to dominate, he'll plug the gaps because we won't be able to stop them appearing

Dobson is a lot better on the ball than he used to be. So you’re losing his defensive abilities for a little bit more control of the ball, I don’t think that’s worth swapping out. 

Fraser as one of the 2 midfielders is a huge risk and one that only would only have a hope of working if Dobson was the one next to him. He’s just not mobile enough for the role 

We will probably find out soon how it will work, with Dobson on 4 yellows. But even then I feel like Appleton will add in Anderson or Camara (if fit) to make it a 3 instead of playing Watson & Fraser with May ahead of them 

If we ever don't pick Dobson out of choice I suspect we wouldn't pick Fraser either.  Not as the two, maybe as the 10.

Neither Camara nor Watson are as good as what Dobson is great at, they might not be quite as good as Fraser going the other way either.

But since JFC got injured we haven't had a plethora, or really any, of midfielders that can "go both ways" cue the Kenneth Williams meme.

I am not, in anyway saying "drop Dobson" but at the same time I don't think it's that out of the question that this group of players could evolve to a stage that they don't need Dobson. If that does happen I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest others might offer more.  Of course they might not. 

None of us have ever seen Dobson not have to do what he is brilliant at because we haven't been good enough.

Yeah I think a midfield of Camara Watson Fraser would work absolutely fine, the debate is whether that’s better than having Dobson in there. I’d say no but there’s definitely a debate to be had there 

I was more disagreeing with the suggestion of Watson & Fraser with May as a 10, which I think would probably be a disaster defensively. The way we are setting up with May in the 10, means we need Dobson as one of the 2 behind him really 

Southbank

Trying to fit all of our individually gifted players into one starting lineup is the wrong approach, surely? It is what lineup makes the most coherent team that counts. It is likely that the best coherent midfield 3 will be Watson, Camara and Dobson. Fraser is a very gifted player, but does he offer as much over 90 as any of those 3? I do not think so. He would be an impact sub for me.